Pat McCabe

[tranquility]

''He [McCabe] is well suited to the midfield. He has played most of his Super Rugby on the edge, either wing or fullback.'

That is authentic Deanspeak. Note the logical disconnect between the two sentences.

hahaha.

 

[tranquility]

Sione Piukala is a very good player. He is strong in contact and knows when to link with the rest of the backline. Another who has impressed me a lot is Tim Bennetts. He is maturing and I'd go as far as saying I'd be very suprised if he wasn't playing regular Super 15 next year.

If this is true, it is a very good news. However with Kingston, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and a fit Horne running around he will have to put in one hell of an off-season. I really want to see that kid soar.

 

[Groucho]

Joe Rok is the quickest in New Zealand over 40m but I wouldn't pick him at 12 for the All Blacks.

McCabe is a bosher. He runs straight and hard, but he limits your outside backs. Does he even offload?

Deans certainly perceives him to have the skills of a 12. He gets a closer look at players than we ever will. I'm happy to see how he plays as a 12, before concluding that he can't.

Deans has had some success by moving players closer to the action in the past, such as one D Carter.

 

[undercoverkiwi]

It's been a while since Joe burned anyone with his speed or agility, and he seems to favor running into contact. His game has morphed into being more solid, and he has lost much of his flash. Surprised to hear he is still the quickest over 40m though (Maitland, Gear, Guildford, Nani?)

When the ABs did their fitness testing last year, Rok was still fasted over 40m (in timed test conditions). AB coaches made a big deal of this at the time cause people were questioning whether he'd lost his speed.

Problem with Rok is he got injured a few years ago, and while he was injured he went to the gym and got huge, too big for his own game which was all about guile and swerve. Now he's just a big bloke that can run fast, but without the guile and step. Point is, pace over 40m is all very nice as a stat but it matters bugger all at the end of the day.

Terrible shame, between 2003 and about 2006 he was unstoppable. 40 tries in 44 tests or something. Can't have helped him playing under Pat Lam at the Blues but that's a whole other discussion.

 

[undercoverkiwi]

Deans certainly perceives him to have the skills of a 12. He gets a closer look at players than we ever will. I'm happy to see how he plays as a 12, before concluding that he can't.

Deans has had some success by moving players closer to the action in the past, such as one D Carter.

Yeah, he also moved Leon McDonald to 13.

And if you're saying Pat McCabe is another Dan Carter who's been frustrated by his lack of opportunities closer to the ruck, then I'll have some of what you're having.

 

[undercoverkiwi]

Deans certainly perceives him to have the skills of a 12. He gets a closer look at players than we ever will. I'm happy to see how he plays as a 12, before concluding that he can't.

Deans has had some success by moving players closer to the action in the past, such as one D Carter.

One could also say that playing Giteau at 10 rather than 12 has ruined him. Why dump Giteau - a 12 - on the basis of his performance at 10?

Call me conspiracy theorist, but I have long sensed something untoward between Giteau and Deans. I don't think Deans is stupid enough to let his personal views on Giteau get in the way of selecting the right side, but for whatever reason Giteau has gone from being world class to average under Deans.

 

[Scotty]

I don't think that Giteau has been dumped at all, just rotated out of the squad. McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) get another chance to prove themselves, and Fa'ainga a shot off the bench.

I think it is highly likely that Giteau will at least be on the bench come RWC time.

 

[undercoverkiwi]

I don't think that Giteau has been dumped at all, just rotated out of the squad. McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) get another chance to prove themselves, and Fa'ainga a shot off the bench.

I think it is highly likely that Giteau will at least be on the bench come RWC time.

Fair play mate. Can't say I agree, but that's why this is fun.

As much as I'm loathe to say it I think Eddie Jones and John Connolly have it spot on in today's SMH. As a Kiwi fan I am delighted to see Giteau being messed around with. I firmly believe he is your best option at 12. He’s a kicking 12, has masses of experience, and although he has never scored a try against New Zealand, he knows our game and he knows test rugby in New Zealand. I also believe Cooper is far from the finished article as a test 10 and having Giteau alongside him would help him out.

MacCabe looks an interesting prospect for the future but I can’t see him being anywhere near where you want your players to be in a World Cup year. I think he’d be better suited to 13 than 12.

If Anthony Fainga’a was in the Wallabies side to play us I would be a very happy man indeed.

 

[Athilnaur]

Fair play mate. Can't say I agree, but that's why this is fun.

As much as I'm loathe to say it I think Eddie Jones and John Connolly have it spot on in today's SMH. As a Kiwi fan I am delighted to see Giteau being messed around with. I firmly believe he is your best option at 12. He’s a kicking 12, has masses of experience, and although he has never scored a try against New Zealand, he knows our game and he knows test rugby in New Zealand. I also believe Cooper is far from the finished article as a test 10 and having Giteau alongside him would help him out.

MacCabe looks an interesting prospect for the future but I can’t see him being anywhere near where you want your players to be in a World Cup year. I think he’d be better suited to 13 than 12.

If Anthony Fainga’a was in the Wallabies side to play us I would be a very happy man indeed.

I think when you see Gits as an opponent he's impressive. He breaks lines, moves around, and doesn't give up. However, Deans has given Gits a boatload of opportunity, at both 10 and 12. He played 10 in 2008, 2009, and 12 in 2010. And it isn't like he has been constantly chopped and changed. Maybe the lack of Larkham/Gregan impacted, I don't know. He was at complete odds and ends playing outside QC (Quade Cooper). Either way he isn't an up the guts player who straightens our line. If you were to play Gits at 12, frankly you'd go JOC (James O'Connor).

On Sunday he was given a chance at 10 as playmaker, someone we desperately want as a back up for QC (Quade Cooper). In my view he was woeful. Sure our forwards were ineffectual after about 10 minutes. But Genia came in, took over as playmaker, and the change was instant, as was Beale's injection into the middle.

Having said all that I think its a media beatup and I agree with Scotty; McCabe, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are getting another shot, Fainga'a will get a shot off the bench, and Deans will continue to expose the squad as we move to RWC. Can't see Gits missing the Cup squad unless BB and Mitch come back and thats a maybe.

 

[Utility Back]

Fair play mate. Can't say I agree, but that's why this is fun.

As much as I'm loathe to say it I think Eddie Jones and John Connolly have it spot on in today's SMH. As a Kiwi fan I am delighted to see Giteau being messed around with. I firmly believe he is your best option at 12. He’s a kicking 12, has masses of experience, and although he has never scored a try against New Zealand, he knows our game and he knows test rugby in New Zealand. I also believe Cooper is far from the finished article as a test 10 and having Giteau alongside him would help him out.

MacCabe looks an interesting prospect for the future but I can’t see him being anywhere near where you want your players to be in a World Cup year. I think he’d be better suited to 13 than 12.

If Anthony Fainga’a was in the Wallabies side to play us I would be a very happy man indeed.

Didnt think of it this way before, but this is the first test where Quade truly is on his own out there with playmaking duties without gits or berrick. I reckon he might be better for it as he thrived on it with the reds after berrick left.

Maybe thats what deans is doing? Putting complete faith in quade a ewen did.

 

[Ruggo]

No disrespect to the others but it will improve his game. It is not rocket science that when Quade is at 10, he is the chief of that backline. I don't think either Barnes or Giteau can play like an indian and it becomes a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth. A confident hard working player like McCabe will be perfect for him.

 

[Gnostic]

So many saying that McAbe and Ant at 12 are limitting factors for the backline, but they fail to take into account QC (Quade Cooper) has the passing game to cut them out when needed to go wide quick. Giteau doesn't have this passing game as much as some would think he does. He passes poorly left to right and often turns his body side on to get the pass away. So IMO I think have a running 12 is better with QC (Quade Cooper) at 10. Another playmaker at 12 just isn't needed.

This is totally different to the Waratahs where neither Barnes of Hangers have the passing game of QC (Quade Cooper). I do however still hate the dual playmaker system and think that a decently coached backline with some decent set moves would performed better than what we have seen over the years from both teams.

 

[undercoverkiwi]

So many saying that McAbe and Ant at 12 are limitting factors for the backline, but they fail to take into account QC (Quade Cooper) has the passing game to cut them out when needed to go wide quick. Giteau doesn't have this passing game as much as some would think he does. He passes poorly left to right and often turns his body side on to get the pass away. So IMO I think have a running 12 is better with QC (Quade Cooper) at 10. Another playmaker at 12 just isn't needed.

Sorry, but I don’t buy this at all. Firstly it assumes that Cooper is going to have all the time he wants to use his passing game and that defences aren’t going to start coming up flat to pick off his wide passes. But that’s just a minor point.

More importantly it means that defences know what to expect when McCabe gets the ball. Giteau puts defenders in two minds and is exactly the kind of player that can bamboozle the likes of Jean de Villiers or Nonu or Sonny Bill Williams. Those guys are going to smash McCabe if he runs hard at them, and get limited go-forward. It’s why Jamie Roberts – very effective against Magners and Heineken Cup sides – ruins opportunities for Wales’ outside backs against top test opponents, he just can’t get them going. Roberts, FTR, should be playing 13 or 15.

Having more playmakers at 12 will be what sets you apart from the other top teams, who all have big defensive midfields. Making your game more similar to the others is not the way forward, IMO, cause you just don’t have the ability to compete in brute force rugby.

I also think you’re going to need more than one kicker behind the ruck cause test packs are going to make life much more difficult for Genia and Cooper than S15 packs did, and the Tokoroa Cat Burglar’s going to want to shovel from time to time to get out of the shit.

IMO

 

[Richo]

No disrespect to the others but it will improve his game. It is not rocket science that when Quade is at 10, he is the chief of that backline. I don't think either Barnes or Giteau can play like an indian and it becomes a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth. A confident hard working player like McCabe will be perfect for him.

I think Barnes is fine being the Indian, actually. At least outside QC (Quade Cooper). I thought they were fast becoming an excellent combination on the EOYT.

 

[Swarley]

I think Horne will play #12 when he comes back. He and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would make a great 12/13 combo: Can straighten up the back-line, make tackles, penetrate defences etc.

 

[qwerty51]

I'd be more looking for Horne to replace AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). 13 is a much more challenging defensive position than 12 and Horne excels at shutting down attacks with good reads and hits.

 

[Groucho]

Yeah, he also moved Leon McDonald to 13.

And if you're saying Pat McCabe is another Dan Carter who's been frustrated by his lack of opportunities closer to the ruck, then I'll have some of what you're having.

Of course I'm not saying he's another Dan Carter. Between you, me, and the gatepost, I was hoping for a precious Kiwi to say that on cue. :thumb

If you have to be Dan Carter to benefit from a position change, then only a handful of players in the history of the game could ever have benefited from a position change.

What I am saying is that Deans knows more about the game, and about Pat McCabe, than you and me combined.

Leon McDonald was simply an early sign that Deans has the interests of the Wallabies at heart.

 

[undercoverkiwi]

Of course I'm not saying he's another Dan Carter. Between you, me, and the gatepost, I was hoping for a precious Kiwi to say that on cue. :thumb

If you have to be Dan Carter to benefit from a position change, then only a handful of players in the history of the game could ever have benefited from a position change.

What I am saying is that Deans knows more about the game, and about Pat McCabe, than you and me combined.

Leon McDonald was simply an early sign that Deans has the interests of the Wallabies at heart.

Touche, nice shot.

 

[Riptide]

One could also say that playing Giteau at 10 rather than 12 has ruined him. Why dump Giteau - a 12 - on the basis of his performance at 10?

Call me conspiracy theorist, but I have long sensed something untoward between Giteau and Deans. I don't think Deans is stupid enough to let his personal views on Giteau get in the way of selecting the right side, but for whatever reason Giteau has gone from being world class to average under Deans.

I'll go with this one (and take a few liberties along the way) The Crusaders culture which Deans inherited and continued and his player selections suggest that "big", "strong" personalities that challenge the coaches aren't viewed so well. Umaga is the 2003 RWC is a good example. Umaga wrote that ""Despite being a senior player, I got no feedback at all - just: 'No, you're not in this week'. That was pretty typical of the Mitchell/Deans man-management style, which wasn't what I was used to," and "Mitchell and Deans had a core group of players whom they valued and listened to, and it didn't include me."

Deans selections offer some support to those who think that he does not always pick the best, but the good player that will conform to the way he wants the team to play. And frankly, there is nothing wrong with the coach exercising his prerogative. Giteau is an outspoken player, not quite the introverted Elsom. Elsom is more Reuben Thorne. Deans certainly is prepared to take risks, but less so on players that have that maverick, independent streak that Giteau may possess. (Posters that point out that Elsom is a maverick, or that I have chosen to neglect personalities such as Spencer, Justin Marshall and even Mehrtens are blatantly ignoring the fact that I am being selective in support of my narrative and quietly looking the other way when presented with evidence to the contrary).

 

[Swat]

One could also say that playing Giteau at 10 rather than 12 has ruined him. Why dump Giteau - a 12 - on the basis of his performance at 10?

Call me conspiracy theorist, but I have long sensed something untoward between Giteau and Deans. I don't think Deans is stupid enough to let his personal views on Giteau get in the way of selecting the right side, but for whatever reason Giteau has gone from being world class to average under Deans.

I suspect it may have something to do with Giteau constantly banging on about being a 10 when RD would rather use him as cover for 9/10/12