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NZ Domestic comps

waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Dismal Pillock said:
An AB's laden Cantab side ship a worst ever 65 pts to North Harbour?

Zero surprise.

Pre-match team chat wouldve been ".....look, DON'T get injured, with Razor in now we are ALL going to be fast-tracked into the AB's so just save yourself and don't get injured and this time next month we'll all be sipping champers on the champs elysses and sunning our ballz in sunny downtown Bordeaux...."
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It's entirely possible these mofos could go into full CruSadist mode & win this thing with a series of away wins :(
 
waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Regardless of venue the GF will be at 1430 NZDT next Saturday due to AB v Japan pretty much straight after. Would rather they'd gone for Sunday arvo (esp given Monday's a nation-wide public holiday) like back in the bad old '90s days.

If BOP happen to be hosting one imagines it'll be at the 26K Rotorua International Stadium rather than Tauranga Domain which today was pretty much packed out at 5K. Must've been much bigger in 1971 when 24K supposedly turned up for the then British Isles tour match.
 
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Dan54

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Well have to say it almost summer, only final of NPC to go! Sigh! Really enjoyed all 3 games yesterday including Heartland final. Both Semis were good games if a bit different, some of the tries and play in the Bay beating Canterbury were an absolute joy, and the Wellington/Waikato one was just 2 teams tearing into each other, players could hardly move by end of game. I know the Autumn tests etc are coming up, and I will enjoy, but it's hard to beat NPC for me.
Anyway I suppose I meant to be away for about 6 weeks from next week so I wouldn't be able to watch it after then anyway. Mrs actually is claiming she broke ankle, just so we didn't go away when we meant to, and I could watch NPC before we go!
 
waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Great doco on sky marking the 20th anniversary of Bay Of Plenty famously taking the Shield off the Aux after 18 unsuccessful challenges in their then 84-year history. Among the things I'd forgotten were that the BoP coaches were messers Cotter & Schmidt. One of the great days in Shield history. Titled Up For The Challenge: The Reunion, should be on YouTube in the near future or now on SkyGo for those of you doing the VPN thing.

Lochore Cup Final was a real humdinger, won in extra time:

 
Dan54

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
waiopehu oldboy said:
Great doco on sky marking the 20th anniversary of Bay Of Plenty famously taking the Shield off the Aux after 18 unsuccessful challenges in their then 84-year history. Among the things I'd forgotten were that the BoP coaches were messers Cotter & Schmidt. One of the great days in Shield history. Titled Up For The Challenge: The Reunion, should be on YouTube in the near future or now on SkyGo for those of you doing the VPN thing.

Lochore Cup Final was a real humdinger, won in extra time:

Click to expand...
Watched that doco WOB, enjoyed it and one of things that got me a bit, the Captain Wayne Ormond still moved to tears when he talked of how he felt when he was presented the Shield, and how he tthought of all the BOP players from before that they were representing.
Also wasn't one Genn Jackson looking a little youner?
 
waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
There's an article in today's Hurld outlining NZR's plans for a future NPC. Behind the paywall (which @zer0 can hopefully breach as he's previously done) so all I know for sure is that it appears to quote Neil Barnes as saying it "doesn't make sense" which is pretty much what he said to the last set of proposed changes.

If they're looking to reduce the size of the comp I hope they're looking outside the box e.g. bringing back the Vikings rather than just cutting Manawatu.
 
zer0

zer0

John Thornett (49)
With a captivating brand of attacking rugby and widespread unpredictability, this year’s National Provincial Championship (NPC) has reignited provincial passion.

Behind the scenes, though, New Zealand Rugby’s fraught financial backdrop and the culmination of another competition review spark familiar tensions.

The NPC has experienced many reincarnations throughout its gradual slide down the rungs in the professional era. Despite this year’s edition enjoying something of a rejuvenation, with crowds up 11% on last year and competitiveness driving engagement, the NPC remains in a fight for survival.

While there’s no suggestion the competition will be culled, financial pressures on provinces are ever-pressing and the purpose of player pathways is under major scrutiny.


This Thursday, as the NPC reaches its climax, the New Zealand Rugby (NZR) board will consider the recommendations of the men’s competition and pathways review.

This review has a specific focus on the long-term sustainability of the NPC, and whether duplication of academies between Super Rugby and the provinces should be streamlined to enable greater clarity for a school-leaver’s professional pathway.

After the NZR board meets in Wellington, three days before the NPC final, the 26 provincial unions will be consulted on the latest competition review the following week.

No changes are envisioned for 2025 but with all big-ticket items, including a new broadcast deal that is widely expected to suffer a significant reduction, a new collective employment agreement with the players and a new provincial union funding agreement to all commence in 2026, another collision course of competing interests looms large.

Set against the backdrop of last year’s scathing Pilkington review that stated New Zealand had too many professional players and the NPC is unsustainable in its current form, the battle lines are clear.

For over a decade, Neil Barnes has coached Taranaki in the NPC, while sharing his nous with the Chiefs and internationally. Speaking to the Herald this week, Barnes launched an impassioned plea for NZR bosses to prioritise the NPC and retain player pathways that seem set to be overhauled.

“In my mind, the NPC is an inconvenience to the people at the top level,” Barnes said.

“If we would just respect all the stages along the way, instead of putting all our focus on the black jersey, we would be in a way stronger position. The NPC is not going to survive until people realise it needs to be marketed properly.


“When Silver Lake came along there was funding put out there for people in the communities to grow our game and help facilitate it. Now all that funding has been taken away.”

In 2022 NZ Rugby distributed a series of one-off payments that included $1 million to each NPC provincial union and $500,000 to every Heartland union.

“Our funding was cut by over $100,000 this year and they’re are cutting another $250,000 off it next year. That’s on the back of [NZR boss] Mark Robinson sitting in my office, and I was challenging him over funding for our game at this level. He said there’s not a shortage of funds in New Zealand, it’s where you spend it.

“If that’s the case it shows they don’t respect the importance of grassroots rugby.”

While collective provincial union funding has been scaled back by $1.8 million this year and $3.05m next year, NZR says this is a correction on a significant uplift following the private investment deal with Silver Lake.

Provincial unions receive 17.5% of NZR’s forecast revenue but with projections falling short, funding has been adjusted.

In this funding cycle provincial union funding increased by around $8m-$10m from the previous agreement to $38m-$40m.

With funding challenges ongoing and further headwinds ahead, though, Barnes firmly believes NZR’s costs are far too top-heavy. He points to the All Blacks, with 23 support staff, and All Blacks XV teams sending over 100 people to Europe this week.

“And yet at the community level you’re cutting quarter of a million dollars next year. Why? Because you’re overspending at the top.

“You can’t tell me they are using the All Blacks XV as a guide to whether those players are good enough next year. All those players will play Super and that’s where they’ll earn the right to be in the All Blacks.

“I don’t understand how they can spend that much at the top and look themselves in the mirror when they’ve just taken hundreds of thousands from the provinces and are now making them struggle to do the job properly at grassroots level.

“If you haven’t got people running the game in the provinces, you’re not going to have people playing the game before too long.”

Barnes hopes the competitions and pathways review recognises the NPC’s role in fostering New Zealand rugby’s production line, particularly those such as former All Blacks centre Conrad Smith, talented Chiefs and Taranaki playmaker Josh Jacomb and midfielder Daniel Rona, who all missed talent identification pathways and instead proved their worth at provincial level.

“If they’ve done a balanced job in having that review board together, they will understand there’s a lot of merit in having the structure we’ve got now. It has served New Zealand well for years,” Barnes said.

“If you show respect to all levels of our game and market it properly it will thrive. But if you put all your focus on the black jersey and think you’re going to pluck all your players out of school and academies you are dreaming and rugby at grassroots will die.

“There’s an expectation at that level the provinces will just keep the game going. It’s like they think everyone else should work for nothing while they keep their heads in the trough and live the dream.

“This country needs to invest in its coaches more than it does too. They pay lip service to it. I know there’s been changes in the last 12 months to how they’re going to run that but I see courses being run for coaches at Super and above for free – and those coaches are already fulltime – and at provincial level they have to take time off work and pay to go to those same courses. Is that right to you?”

New Zealand Rugby’s general manager of community rugby Steve Lancaster is acutely aware of the funding frustrations at all levels of the game. He says attempting to evenly cut the cake remains difficult.

“Everyone has an opinion on it and everyone has a vested interest. I’ve been in this game a long time and worked across the spectrum. What I can say without any doubt is rugby is a hungry beast. It doesn’t matter how much money this game generates, we’ll find a way to spend it and people will put their hand up for more,” Lancaster said.

“When you look at the professional game and international rugby around the world you have to spend a certain amount of money to be competitive.

“In the community game our participation is strong but you look at a decline in volunteers, ageing club infrastructure, there’s a whole lot of demands for money as well.

“There isn’t enough to please everyone today – and there won’t be in five years’ time. That is going to continue to be a real challenge for us. Frankly we’ll never get it completely right but we’ll keep going.”

No matter the outcome of the competitions and pathways review, Lancaster maintains the NPC has a viable future.

“I can’t speak to the outcomes of the work we’re doing currently. It’s not the first time we’ve done a review of the NPC and it won’t be the last. In terms of the future of the competition, without going into any of the details, as long as I’m around, for the foreseeable future, it will remain a critical part of our pathway.

“Young aspiring professionals getting to play with seasoned professionals from Super and, occasionally, internationals that’s critical for us. You don’t have to do a review to answer that question.”

In terms of plans to streamline academies, clearly define pathways, and potentially centrally contract provincial players, Barnes believes the club-NPC-Super-Rugby-All Blacks conveyer belt must be preserved over congregating talent in the five metropolitan rugby cities that already suffer from rugby saturation.

“That would decimate rugby in the rural provinces,” Barnes said. “All our young promising players will have to go to the main centres.

“What I love about the NPC this year is you can’t predict who is going to win. Having a lopsided competition where the five Super bases are strong and knock everyone over is not going to excite anyone.

“You shouldn’t come out of schoolboy or under-20s and go straight into Super Rugby. There’s a few freaks in the country that can do that but the majority should return and earn the right to play in the NPC with all the other amateur players.

“There’s a lot of people out there who think NPC or Super should go but I’ve coached at all levels and they all need to be maintained.”

Visions of reviving the NPC’s halcyon days are fanciful but boosting overall crowds by 11% to welcome 190,000 fans this season proves pivoting to downsize and cater to the congested rugby climate can help retain relevance.

Bay of Plenty, one of the success stories on this year’s NPC, had around 8500 at the Tauranga Domain for their Saturday afternoon semifinal against Canterbury.

Southland hosted 7343 for their Stag Day derby with Otago in Invercargill.

Shifting matches to smaller, boutique venues that provide proximity to the field, cultivate genuine atmospheres and allow fans on the field to mingle with players at the end of games is another positive move.

Canterbury attracted over 5000 to Rangiora on a Sunday afternoon and Taranaki drew 4500 to Urenui for a preseason match.

Bay of Plenty chief executive Mike Rogers says Steamers players, from Kurt Eklund to Naitoa Ah Kuoi and Emoni Narawa, love playing for their province.

“Everyone has always looked at trying to fix the NPC and I’m not sure it’s broken,” Rogers said. “This year’s competition has been really engaging and competitive.

“How do we embrace that and make it better rather than the opposite where we’re continually challenged to make the competition less important. We’ve got to go the other way. We’re not trying to compete with Super Rugby. That’s a different environment. That’s fully professional.

“The NPC isn’t just about winning; it’s about developing talent for our Super Rugby teams and for the All Blacks. Hopefully, we can find a good outcome there working with New Zealand Rugby and Super to continue to harness the production line for the All Blacks.

“How valuable is the NPC to our rugby system and are we making the right level of investment in the game at that level for the return we’re getting?

“There’s definitely a revenue issue for provincial unions. There’s questions around the financial side that we all need to sit in a room and sort out. Hopefully, the pathways and competitions work will highlight some opportunities for us to understand how we better invest in the game.”

While a drastic overhaul of the NPC as we know it doesn’t appear to be on the horizon, its funding future remains poised on a knife-edge and a fight looms over the quest to tackle player pathways.

After finishing as Manawatū head coach, Mike Rogers detailed challenges facing the smaller unions. In his 22-month term, Rogers worked with three chief executives and 12 board members. He said budgets are under immense pressure, with all spending scrutinised.

“It is no longer a performance environment,” Rogers said. “Small squads, under-resourced staffing units. Rugby pays poorly which means staff turnover is high so we are constantly starting again with new people.”

Lancaster maintains NZ Rugby values the NPC but, clearly, some of those scrapping at the coalface are unconvinced.

“We’ve always been consistent that the competition is really special and important to us. We’re big fans and big believers in it,” Lancaster said.

“We haven’t shied away from the fact there are financial sustainability issues in the game – right from NZR to the PUs and beyond.

“Long-term sustainability is the lens we have most concern for. It’s about sustaining that competition so we can keep celebrating it in five years’ time.

“I don’t think we’ll ever see a time where rugby goes back to what it was but we have to ensure we keep it relevant in the here and now. For all its imperfections and tensions we have a model that largely works.”
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waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Thanks for posting that @zer0.

My hot take is that NZR are waiting for a devalued rights deal to justify the comp downsizing they've clearly wanted for some time now.

In addition to Manawatu the other obvious target for culling is Southland & we know there are clubs down there who favour dropping from NPC to Heartland. What would that do to the Clan? They've already got the smallest player- & supporter base so losing Southland would be a disaster.

I haven't thought this through fully but I'd rather keep Southland & split Counties-Manukau at the Bombays: southern end merges with Waikato, northern with Auckland.
 
Dan54

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
waiopehu oldboy said:
Thanks for posting that @zer0.

My hot take is that NZR are waiting for a devalued rights deal to justify the comp downsizing they've clearly wanted for some time now.

In addition to Manawatu the other obvious target for culling is Southland & we know there are clubs down there who favour dropping from NPC to Heartland. What would that do to the Clan? They've already got the smallest player- & supporter base so losing Southland would be a disaster.

I haven't thought this through fully but I'd rather keep Southland & split Counties-Manukau at the Bombays: southern end merges with Waikato, northern with Auckland.
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Yep WOB Counties were originally South Aucklnd anyway (actually started by my group involving my great-grandfather), also I wouldn't be against Harbour being split between Auck and Taniwha. Barnes is right, NPC needs to be less about the cities and more about satelite towns/cities that don'e get tests and super games.
 
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