NSW U16 Trial Games and Selections 2011

[Newbie]

Thought you would be more fearless my friend. It was a U15s comp then, in the 70s. A magpie doesn't give his age away or you might find out my real identity. :lmao:

Was a Johnny Cogger playing then?

 

[Newbie]

Wouldn't want DD to know that, he might send the sheepdog around.

LMAO@Magpie ... You couldnt help yourself eh ... just had to go and start some trouble!!

 

[kiwi playing in Oz]

Newbie's proposal was interesting reading as well as magpies! It's been a few yrs now since we left Wellington but kids play club rugby up to the age of 13. They then only play for their schools. The difference is that it doesn't matter whether you go to a catholic school or state school - there aren't enough of them to be able to run separate comps anyway. Their system works notable all blacks out of the region are too many - Mexted, Sooialo, Jerry Collins, Nonu, Umaga, Corey Jane, Vito, Weepu, Cullen and the list goes on.

Once they finish college they then go back to playing club rugby starting In U18.

I believe my son has become a casualty of the nsw system. I'm hoping he'll go back to NZ for a couple of years when he finishes school and study and play rugby. Having spoken to a couple of parents of scholarship holders , they had been told that going to their school would be advantageous for rep selection! However the boys are great players and I think that was just an enticing tactic on the school's part and they would have made it no matter which school they went to.

Any system that gives a person equal opportunity in selection processes has to be a good one and I reckon Mr Garling hit the nail on the head! The truth hurts lol

 

[Man on the hill]

MOTH,

Have read the Garling Report (and you are very correct). I wonder if someone from the ARU (in 20-30 years time) will pick the same up and say, what were we thinking back then to disregard such a profound document!

With respect to Sun Tzu is that the same author of "Art of War"?

Regards,
Newbie.

Yes - to art of war

Garling makes reference to some 20 year old report along similar lines - - what do the french say (other than run away) - the more things change, the more things stay the same?

 

[Man on the hill]

Admittedly; without a doubt! However (and this will identify the age of many in here) in 1977 or thereabouts, a man by the name of Kerry Packer took on the Australian Cricket Establishment and made history. During this era of reformation Australian Cricket did suffer, but only for a couple of years! I know this a loose analogy I have used however unlike Mr Packer at the time, the ARU here would coming from a position of authority (the association recognised by the IRB).

If the ARU were to come out and proclaim that they were now taking charge of the Australian junior rugby representative teams and their consequential selections, tell me which countries would defy such a proclamation and allow their school/junior teams to play a team selected by the ASRU. I would hazard a guess and say that NZ would probably not!

Ultimately there would be fierce resitance from GPS and CAS schools (and in QLD as well), however I could see the other associations coming on board very quickly. Eventually so would the others if they ever wanted to have offically recognised representative honours for their students again!

Its a dream gentlemen; and without them who are we, and how will we ever effect change? Alas it all starts with a dream!

Regards,
Newbie

Attractive concept only problem I see is that the ARU today is as set in its ways as the ACB was back then. Other problem is that the ARU & state unions have for so long kowtowed to the private school systems and have subsequently surrendered so much of their authority.

But there is a way - all rugby insurance in Australia is under an ARU funded scheme - as far as I am aware this includes the private schools. So they have a tool and ultimately the ARU does own the game, they are the one affiliated with the IRB, big question is do they have the stomach for that quantum of change? And will the unguaranteed outcome justify the risk?

 

[Ageing Parent]

With apologies for changing the tack of the more recent comments on this thread, is anyone able to shed some light on the processes employed when players who have currently been selected ( for any of the 3 teams) are forced out through injury ? (ie ..are there supposed shadow squads ??)
I understand ( from a most relaible source, of course) that one of the Schools players (a forward) may no longer be available following some "reconstructive work" to a recent shoulder injury..........
Would be interested to learn what has transpired in previous years, if anyone is aware of this.

 

[Man on the hill]

If the ARU were to come out and proclaim that they were now taking charge of the Australian junior rugby representative teams and their consequential selections, tell me which countries would defy such a proclamation and allow their school/junior teams to play a team selected by the ASRU. I would hazard a guess and say that NZ would probably not!

Newbie

Just remembered. THe ARU did this with refereeing some time back - how many whistleblowers from that have kicked on & how many Australians will handle games in the middle at RWC2011?

 

[Casnovian]

Ooops; I forgot my LMAO again!

Ironically coincidental that the SJRU coach also happens to be the Trinity coach as well! I am sorry but I have never seen such bias in my life (toward CAS boys who were clearly out-played by the boys I have selected above).

Regards,
Newbie

Nothing like getting your facts wrong. I understand Barkell is in the Junior School about six or seven kilometres from Summer Hill - separate entity. The Trinity Ist XV coach is currently in Qld with NSWII - a job he has done for the last five years or so. The Trinity16s coach is Lachlan White (and Director of Coaching) - also did the CAS 16s this year.

I don't know Barkell - however he has been around a few years and has shown genuine interest - by participating both at Norths and at regional level. I say he will be around for some time. This is an amateur sport at this level and it needs as much support it can get.

 

[rara10]

Guys
I have been thinking about all this and if we take all the emotion out of it and break it down to find the base cause we might have to shift our energy and anger. Where does it truly belong? The current system is a product of the evolution of school rugby. If we look at the CHS, ACIES, CCC, ISA, and Country Schools systems and ask ourselves what kind of competition are they providing and developing for our kids to play in weekly. The answer in most cases is none. Should we start there? I am sure if these associations had a healthy competition their teams would be far stronger come the school trials, both in its current or any other format. The fact is putting everything else aside the GPS kids play Rugby week in and week out at a reasonable level. If we could get the other associations to try and develop rugby within their sporting curriculum we might find the system might change itself as GPS would not be as dominant. People keep comparing NZ school rugby and how they do it but they are forgetting that the school rugby competition is a religion over there league takes a back seat. The same can be said for where I went to school in the north of England. Here League is the code of choice for most of these associations but not GPS and CAS. So how do these two schools fair in school league selections? I am asking that as I do not know never having had any thing to do with league.
It will probably fire everyone up again but should we be looking in our own back yard first.

 

[Dingdong]

With apologies for changing the tack of the more recent comments on this thread, is anyone able to shed some light on the processes employed when players who have currently been selected ( for any of the 3 teams) are forced out through injury ? (ie ..are there supposed shadow squads ??)
I understand ( from a most relaible source, of course) that one of the Schools players (a forward) may no longer be available following some "reconstructive work" to a recent shoulder injury..........
Would be interested to learn what has transpired in previous years, if anyone is aware of this.

The selectors have a shadow list of players for every position and will call in players as necessary from that list.

 

[Dingdong]

Guys
I have been thinking about all this and if we take all the emotion out of it and break it down to find the base cause we might have to shift our energy and anger. Where does it truly belong? The current system is a product of the evolution of school rugby. If we look at the CHS, ACIES, CCC, ISA, and Country Schools systems and ask ourselves what kind of competition are they providing and developing for our kids to play in weekly. The answer in most cases is none. Should we start there? I am sure if these associations had a healthy competition their teams would be far stronger come the school trials, both in its current or any other format. The fact is putting everything else aside the GPS kids play Rugby week in and week out at a reasonable level. If we could get the other associations to try and develop rugby within their sporting curriculum we might find the system might change itself as GPS would not be as dominant. People keep comparing NZ school rugby and how they do it but they are forgetting that the school rugby competition is a religion over there league takes a back seat. The same can be said for where I went to school in the north of England. Here League is the code of choice for most of these associations but not GPS and CAS. So how do these two schools fair in school league selections? I am asking that as I do not know never having had any thing to do with league.
It will probably fire everyone up again but should we be looking in our own back yard first.

Spot on rara.

 

[Man on the hill]

Nothing like getting your facts wrong. I understand Barkell is in the Junior School about six or seven kilometres from Summer Hill - separate entity. The Trinity Ist XV coach is currently in Qld with NSWII - a job he has done for the last five years or so. The Trinity16s coach is Lachlan White (and Director of Coaching) - also did the CAS 16s this year.

I don't know Barkell - however he has been around a few years and has shown genuine interest - by participating both at Norths and at regional level. I say he will be around for some time. This is an amateur sport at this level and it needs as much support it can get.

For all you plot thickeners - U15 SJRU coach is Joel Rivers - Joel played at University and has coached PSSA (Syd East) & Uni Junior rep teams and is coach of Colts II at Uni - now a teacher with Barkell at Trinity prep school at Strathfield. Was previously in the public system.

 

[Newbie]

A Minor Detail!!!

Nothing like getting your facts wrong. I understand Barkell is in the Junior School about six or seven kilometres from Summer Hill - separate entity. The Trinity Ist XV coach is currently in Qld with NSWII - a job he has done for the last five years or so. The Trinity16s coach is Lachlan White (and Director of Coaching) - also did the CAS 16s this year.

I don't know Barkell - however he has been around a few years and has shown genuine interest - by participating both at Norths and at regional level. I say he will be around for some time. This is an amateur sport at this level and it needs as much support it can get.

Casnovian,

I did not come down in the last shower so please do not insult my intelligence! Maybe Barkell is not technically the 16's coach for Trinity but he is definitely involved (and influential) in their rugby program; and that is a FACT!

I am so sorry if you cannot see it however there is no other explanation other than bias! If I am wrong then please explain how mediocre CAS lads were chosen over the lads I have named in my thread which you quoted?

Regards,
Newbie

 

[Lee Grant]

Guys - some of the posts here border on accusations of bias - and some are over the border.

Rather than sift through them and zapping or transferring them to the politics and bias thread I'll let them go - but any future posts that have matters pertaining to bias or unfairness in selections will be zapped out of hand even though they might be just a few words in a post.

Thank you.

 

[Newbie]

Guilty as Charged!

Guys - some of the posts here border on accusations of bias - and some are over the border.

Rather than sift through them and zapping or transferring them to the politics and bias thread I'll let them go - but any future posts that have matters pertaining to bias or unfairness in selections will be zapped out of hand even though they might be just a few words in a post.

Thank you.

I am a perpetrator and sincerely apologise to all those I have offended! In mitigation your Honour can I plead a crappy week at Perisher?

Regards,
Newbie.

 

[Dingdong]

Guys - some of the posts here border on accusations of bias - and some are over the border.

Rather than sift through them and zapping or transferring them to the politics and bias thread I'll let them go - but any future posts that have matters pertaining to bias or unfairness in selections will be zapped out of hand even though they might be just a few words in a post.

Thank you.

NOT GUILTY your honour..... Maggy started it !!!!!

 

[Newbie]

NOT GUILTY your honour..... Maggy started it !!!!!

LMAO@Dingdong ... I'll pay that one, very good, very good indeed!!

 

[no9]

NOT GUILTY your honour..... Maggy started it !!!!!

CTPE #1036
I could open a real can of worms here - but is this reflective of the players' abilities? (ie is GPS a much stronger competition?) or their coaches ability? (ie to get a team playing great team rugby on a very limited preparation).

Pompous statements like this tend to incite angry responses.

 

[Man on the hill]

Casnovian,

I did not come down in the last shower so please do not insult my intelligence! Maybe Barkell is not technically the 16's coach for Trinity but he is definitely involved (and influential) in their rugby program; and that is a FACT!

I am so sorry if you cannot see it however there is no other explanation other than bias! If I am wrong then please explain how mediocre CAS lads were chosen over the lads I have named in my thread which you quoted?

Regards,
Newbie

No a fact - he handles 15As - nought to do with 16s

 

[CTPE]

CTPE #1036
I could open a real can of worms here - but is this reflective of the players' abilities? (ie is GPS a much stronger competition?) or their coaches ability? (ie to get a team playing great team rugby on a very limited preparation).

Pompous statements like this tend to incite angry responses.

Pompous eh!.....mmm.....I'm really tempted to respond with an acerbic comment about the level of your intelligence no9 but in the interest the love-in that has developed in more recent posts I'll just shoulder arms and let that one land gently in the keepers gloves.

Whilst I appreciate that it galls you, the GPS is the strongest schoolboys rugby competition in NSW - the history of the NSW Schools competition evidences that.

Would the game both generally and at schoolboys level be better off if all other Schools Associations had equally strong competitions? Absolutely! The fact however is that they don't - why? - because many of them adopted league as their code of choice for school winter sport and otherwise they don't or can't invest the time, energy and financial and human resources in rugby that GPS has done since 1892. That's right an investment in rugby for nearly 120 years! Thank god for the game that 120 years ago they chose rugby as their winter sport of choice rather than football (soccer).