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Melbourne Rebels 2011

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M

Melb rebel

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I have a question that has been burning for a long time and wondering if anybody can answer and I wonder why no journalist has asked the question.

Where are the Rebels getting the money from? No public disclosure. i asked a friend in melb today re the VRU and the reported MOU between Rebels and VRU. The Waratahs have gone the opposite and pledged $1m to the NSWRU. The Rebels have joined the VRU??

I smell something funny going on here.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
ok, let's do a little comparison between a POSSIBLE first Rebels team, the Brumbies first side and then the Force first side:

Rebels (if full strength):

15 Luke Rooney
14 Cooper Vanu
13 Lachlan Mitchell
12 Stirling Mortlock
11 Mark Gerrard
10 Danny Cipriani
9 Richard Kingi
8 Gareth Delve
7 Michael Lipman
6 Jarrod Saffy
5 Adam Byrnes
4 Al Campbell
3 Laurie Weeks
2 Adam Freier
1 Greg Sommerville.

I'll have to disagree with a couple of selections.

Delve or Davidson would get the nod over Saffy who will most probably be given time to adjust back into the 15 man code, unless he has some stellar preseason form.

Hux will get the nod over Rooney after what I've seen of Hawke's Bay in the NPC this year. Alternatively, we could even see Gerrad at 15 with two fliers on the wings.

Also we could, not saying we will, but we COULD see Blake at 3 over Weeks.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
I'm struggling to see Kingi start. The Reds have been a black hole for scrum halves for a number of years (until Genia emergence) and they certainly didn't rate Kingi. He got picked on that one tour, stock got elevated and then nothing. Also, why would sign a player like Cords and pay him if not to use him?

I disagree. The Reds were never going to call on Kingi to fill the black hole when there was one because he would of been about 17 or 18.

He got picked on the Spring Tour and went alright THEN signed with the Rebels so the Reds weren't keen to blood a player for a starting role who was going to leave them.

Why do you reckon Weeks kept his lips tight? He didn't want to suffer the same fate.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
I'll do a naked lap of University Oval if that happens!

I wouldn't be pleased with it but Blake does have the accolades of being a Wallaby (which Weeks may be by the end of the year).

Blake is pretty lazy but he is highly rated because many fans only see his penetrating runs.
 
R

Red Rooster

Guest
I disagree. The Reds were never going to call on Kingi to fill the black hole when there was one because he would of been about 17 or 18.

He got picked on the Spring Tour and went alright THEN signed with the Rebels so the Reds weren't keen to blood a player for a starting role who was going to leave them.

Why do you reckon Weeks kept his lips tight? He didn't want to suffer the same fate.

Instead of all the conspiracy theories why dont you look at the fact that Kingi was injured for most of the season and came back in when he was fit right a the end. They also had Ben Lucas who is a bloody good 9 who also played 10 & started at 15 in the last game for the Highlanders (so where was the Black hole?)

Laurie Weekes kept his mouth shut because he had signed with the Rebels before the signing window was open. He was picked for every game after it was announced he was going to the Rebels including the tour of SA and only missed out when he was injured at the end of the season - so what fate did he actually suffer as a result of signing with the Rebels - nothing but kept on being selected
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Instead of all the conspiracy theories why dont you look at the fact that Kingi was injured for most of the season and came back in when he was fit right a the end. They also had Ben Lucas who is a bloody good 9 who also played 10 & started at 15 in the last game for the Highlanders (so where was the Black hole?)

Laurie Weekes kept his mouth shut because he had signed with the Rebels before the signing window was open. He was picked for every game after it was announced he was going to the Rebels including the tour of SA and only missed out when he was injured at the end of the season - so what fate did he actually suffer as a result of signing with the Rebels - nothing but kept on being selected

It's hardly a conspiracy theory to suggest you don't want to waste time with a player who is moving provinces when he hasn't stamped his mark yet.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I'm struggling to see Kingi start. The Reds have been a black hole for scrum halves for a number of years (until Genia emergence) and they certainly didn't rate Kingi. He got picked on that one tour, stock got elevated and then nothing. Also, why would sign a player like Cords and pay him if not to use him?

experience. Alternatively why sign a player like Kingi and not use him? I don't understand the logic I'm afraid.
 
D

Doc

Guest
experience. Alternatively why sign a player like Kingi and not use him? I don't understand the logic I'm afraid.

Cords is a quality Test player who would be making serious bank abroad. He came home to play for the Rebels, the offer would have had to have been reasonable. Kingi was unwanted by the Reds and has shown no evidence he can even play 9 at club level well let alone Super Rugby.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Sorry, you lost me at "Cords is a quality test player"

I don't believe I ever saw him play anything like test quality.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Cords is a quality Test player who would be making serious bank abroad. He came home to play for the Rebels, the offer would have had to have been reasonable. Kingi was unwanted by the Reds and has shown no evidence he can even play 9 at club level well let alone Super Rugby.

Ok, I disagree with RugbyReg. Cords was a quality test rugby back-up in his day.

Cords would make some serious bank abroad but the fact he was doing that for a French 2nd div team probably means he didn't have a HUGE wealth of offers. Now that doesn't mean he won't be great for the Rebels, he has an awesome passing game and will be a great experienced hard head at the times in the season that it's needed. That being said I can't see a former Wallaby journeyman really ripping it up in Super rugby at 34, you simply HAVE to start Kingi.

The Reds didn't kick Kingi out, he left for game time that he wasn't going to get because of Will Genia. Why would the Reds debut a player in 2009 that they obviously rated, as he was young by Super standards, then watch him be probably the form 9 of the 2009 U20 WC and watch him Spring Tour only to then kick him out? It doesn't make sense.

I think you are being antagonistic to be honest.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
RugbyReg,

Good article of the comparison with the Brumbies start up - enjoyed it.

I think everyone agrees that the Victorian side would have done a lot better setting up in the year after the RWC.

Yes, ahem, a few wise men have said that. It was always going to be better for a new Oz franchise to start up the year after a RWC rather than the year of the RWC, but Oz rugby had to seize it's chance.

Many foreign senior pro players in their late 20's would have targeted the 2011 RWC to be the watershed of their careers: to move from their present environment to something different in 2012. As I have written before we knew the name of any foreign player for 2011: we will get interest from a higher quality foreign player than we could have got for 2011.

As also mentioned previously: one hopes that the Rebels will take/have taken that into account when hiring the 2011 foreigners and not dished out too many multi year deals.

If they have planned that way methinks the Rebels recruiters will be quite active for the rest of 2010; not for their 2011 squad obviously, but for 2012.


Looking at the teams being selected for the Rebels: there are too many old players there. If you get more than half of them starting they will be struggling in the law crackdown game of Super rugby deep into matches.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Ok, I disagree with RugbyReg. Cords was a quality test rugby back-up in his day.

Cords would make some serious bank abroad but the fact he was doing that for a French 2nd div team probably means he didn't have a HUGE wealth of offers. Now that doesn't mean he won't be great for the Rebels, he has an awesome passing game and will be a great experienced hard head at the times in the season that it's needed. That being said I can't see a former Wallaby journeyman really ripping it up in Super rugby at 34, you simply HAVE to start Kingi.

The Reds didn't kick Kingi out, he left for game time that he wasn't going to get because of Will Genia. Why would the Reds debut a player in 2009 that they obviously rated, as he was young by Super standards, then watch him be probably the form 9 of the 2009 U20 WC and watch him Spring Tour only to then kick him out? It doesn't make sense.

I think you are being antagonistic to be honest.

me? I'm not. I just don't a 35 year old Cordingly is the man for the job.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
I had no idea that comments on an internet forum were intellectual property! :)

No they are not, and some of our efforts on the forum are far from intellectual - but it keeps us off the streets. :D

We all steal from each other, not that you did, and most often we forget where the info came from.



I was reading the Manly Daily whilst eating my cornflakes this morning and saw an article on gun St. Augustine's 13. Mali Hingano. All the Oz Super teams but the Reds have spoken to the Oz Schools star. So why is this info in the Rebels thread? Because he said he is "hopeful of things working out with the Rebels".

"They appeal to me," he said, "because they are a new club with new opportunities."

One thing I didn't realise is that he is a nephew of Willie O; so there are some good bloodlines there, though of a different type.

For those who don't follow schools footie he is a hard running 13. who can also use the ball: not a common type in this country. He's a harsh tackler but hard to put on the deck himself because, although not a big lad, has the Ioane leg drive to push opponents back and he has a powerful wriggle.

He gives great credit to the quixotic coach of St. Augustines, John Papahatzis, who coached Ricky Suart, George Gregan and Matt Giteau at St.Eddies.

Uncle Willie suggested that Mali find a pathway in Sydney as opportunities would present themselves, but it looks like he has his eyes south of the border.

Let's all wish him well. He's a great lad.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Two rebels related articles:

Here and here.

Melbourne claims back to back Dewer Shields
14 SEP 2010
by Travis Hay

The Defending Premiers, Melbourne, challenged the minor premiers Southern Districts for the Dewar Shield in a hard fought 80 minutes of Club Rugby. Melbourne got off to a solid start leading by 11 points before the Pirates looted a try. Melbourne seemed to dominate for the next series of play, with 50+ metre runs along the wings seemingly the norm.

The Souths defence held up several attempts in their last 5 metres, the last of which gave away a penalty. In the resulting scrum Melbourne charged through Souths and a phase later was over the line by the far corner. The remainder of the half was an exchange of penalties and possession in the middle of the ground with no-one looking like scoring. The Pirates decided to chance their arm and after breaking 6 tackles and offloading 3 times the Pirates scored a handy try to keep them in touch. The unsuccessful conversion meant Melbourne had a handy lead of 18 - 10 whilst the oranges came out.

At Halftime it was discovered that the beer had run out, luckily in the "spirit" of rugby the masses drank anything they could find. Souths looked menacing early in the 2nd half getting the ball over the line, only to be disallowed because of a forward pass. Melbourne immediately responded to the Pirates by scoring a converted try, extending their lead to 25 - 10.

The Souths caught Melbourne napping in the reversal of plays and responded with a converted try next to the posts, reducing Melbourne's lead to 25-17. The next 10 minutes was all Melbourne attack, a missed penalty from near 1/2 way, and a man held up over the try line resulting in a Melbourne fed scrum. The Melbourne scrum packed in and as they had been doing all day, pushed the Pirates back and scored a try, which was converted to the crowds delight from the sideline.

With less than 10 minutes remaining the Pirates needed to score quickly to stay in touch, which they did several phases and 5 offloads later. The unsuccessful conversion meant they were still 13 points down, achievable, but not likely.

Melbourne ground out the next 5 minutes holding onto possession and slowly pushing forward. Melbourne sealed the Victory with a try, and the referee raised his arm to call the end of the match. The Melbourne kicker put a half-hearted drop kick conversion off to the side before jumping into the huddle of excited Melbourne players who had just won the Dewar Shield.

This sealed Melbourne's day off, after winning the other 3 divisions they were represented in the Grand Finals, and securing the Cowper Shield as Club Champions of 2010

The deserving Man of the Match was Chris Slade the #13 for Melbourne who scored a great try, and broke the lines many times in the game.

Future Rebel bolts into Wallabies contention
Bret Harris
The Australian September 18, 2010 12:00AM

FORMER Red Nick Phipps is a possible halfback option.

AUSTRALIAN Commonwealth Games sevens representative Nick Phipps has emerged as a potential bolter for the upcoming Wallabies tour of Hong Kong and Europe.

Phipps, who will play halfback for Sydney University against Eastern Suburbs in the Sydney club rugby elimination semi-final at Coogee Oval today, has already been signed by Super rugby expansion franchise Melbourne Rebels.

He is likely to compete with Rebels teammate Richard Kingi, veteran Josh Valentine and NSW Waratahs recruit Brendan McKibbin for the third halfback spot in the Wallabies' squad.

Kingi was one of the bolters for the Wallabies' end of season tour last year, but he was restricted to the Queensland Reds reserves bench and Brisbane club Sunnybank this year.

Valentine was preferred to Kingi as the Wallabies' back-up to Luke Burgess for the Test against Fiji in Canberra in June while Will Genia was injured, indicating he has overtaken him in the pecking order.

But if Wallabies coach Robbie Deans is still looking for a third halfback option, he may well consider Phipps or even McKibbin, who is tipped as a possible starter ahead of Burgess at the Waratahs next year.

The fact Phipps is in the Australian sevens squad indicates he is well regarded by ARU high-performance manager and Wallabies selector David Nucifora.

If Phipps gets the call-up, he may well be the only bolter in the touring party, likely to be 35-strong.

With Deans having introduced 10 players to Test rugby this year - Anthony Fainga'a, Saia Fainga'a, Huia Edmonds, Ben Daley, Salesi Ma'afu, Matt Hodgson, Rob Horne, Ben McCalman, Rob Simmons and James Slipper - the scope for selecting bolters has diminished.

Added to this, loose forward Scott Higginbotham, prop Laurie Weeks, outside back Pat McCabe and winger Nick Cummins have been chosen in extended Wallabies squads, but remain uncapped.

Kane Douglas, Damien Fitzpatrick, and Pat McCutcheon were also involved with the Australian Barbarians, which means they could not be classified as bolters either.

A combination of rebuilding and injury has tested the limits of Australia's depth, but this squad could have a fairly settled look about it.

Of the Wallabies' 30-man Tri-Nations squad, only outside centre Rob Horne and winger Digby Ioane are unavailable for the tour.

If Deans takes 35 players away, he only needs to find another seven to round out the squad.

I imagine Deans would choose players who have been involved with the Wallabies or the Australian Barbarians during the course of the year, which would bring the likes of Mitch Chapman and Pat McCutcheon into the mix.

The final make-up of the squad will depend on whether established Wallabies such as James Horwill, Wycliff Palu and Tatafu Polota-Nau recover from injuries, which have sidelined them this year.

Possible Wallabies squad: Adam Ashley-Cooper, Ben Alexander, Berrick Barnes, Kurtley Beale, Richard Brown, Luke Burgess, Mitch Chapman, Mark Chisholm, Quade Cooper, Ben Daley, Huia Edmonds, Rocky Elsom (c), Anthony Fainga'a, Saia Fainga'a, Will Genia, Matt Giteau, Scott Higginbotham, Matt Hodgson, Peter Hynes, Pat McCabe, Ben McCalman, Pat McCutcheon, Salesi Ma'afu, Drew Mitchell, Stephen Moore, Dean Mumm, James O'Connor, Nick Phipps, David Pocock, Benn Robinson, Nathan Sharpe, Cameron Shepherd, Rob Simmons, Matt To'omua, Lachie Turner.
 
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