Lions vs Reds Rd 6 2014

[ACT Crusader]

Just watched the game. The refereeing performance was clearly farcical and you'd expect that Berry is one of the referees squad about to be dropped.

What was clear to me though is that the Reds are infringing on a great percentage of defensive rucks particularly when in their 22.

They've certainly earned a reputation already this season as a team that gives away a lot of penalties. I feel that unless they change things fairly dramatically they are going to get reffed off the park in most close games.

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I agree. The Reds have got the Wyatt Crockett, Al Baxter syndrome going. Beau Robinson in particular has a massive penalty target on his back. He needs to call Richie or Matt Hodgson or George Smith to borrow the cloak.....

 

[EatSleepDrinkRuck]

That is if what you are saying is that the SA refs are defiantly on the take?
Incompetence goes both ways it happens my gripe is that you are saying the SA refs blatantly cheat?

You're deliberately conflating the point being made to a point of ridiculousness to try and be right.

Watch the game and try and honestly say that:

a) The errors made by Berry were not in the Lions favour

b) That if there was a bias in the Lions favour, it did not influence the result.

Bias does not need to be delberate, it does not need to be part of a match fixing conspiracy.

Based on the evidence available, there were a litany of errors, there was inconsistent interpretation and this follows a game with outcry about the same person's ability to referee.

Further, I don't recall the last time there was a genuine sentiment that the Reds were ripped off by a ref and certainly not to this degree.*

Give yourself an uppercut.

*Edit: Apparently there were issues with the Shorks last week? I didn't think so, but ok - I'll eat some humble pie on that point.

 

[Ash]

I only had two issues with the Shorks last week:
1) Coetzee got away with murder at the breakdown
2) The ref's interaction with the Shorks players compared to the Reds - firstly joking and the friendliness, then the insane JdP exchange, and his no time for the Reds' captain

All in all, last week the Shorks were a better team than the Reds, although not as much as the scoreline indicated.

Not so sure the Lions were a better team this weekend.

I will say that for the Lions that Boshoff looks like a huge talent, as does their scrumhalf.

 

[mst]

I don't believe that MST is being serious. I believe that he is a large, green, forum-defacer who lives under a bridge. It is very cold and lonely under that bridge, so he attempts to prod people who walk past so that he can have some interaction. Most pundits believe it is best to ignore said defacer.

Thanks tranquilty - I will take that as compliment. Guilty as having a dig most times i will freely admit. This however is not. I myself want Berry gone, but what offends me most - and I say this as someone who is happy to see the Reds lose - is the circus act that is transpiring before our eyes embarrassing Australian rugby being performed by the Reds supporters.

Yes the refereeing was crap, but I do believe the reds did play their part and blame who you want but even "gel" has written in the Reds 2014 thread the game is up and the Reds infringing is a well know quantity.

But interestingly, just like the focus you have put on me. it is similar to the attention the Reds brought to themselves with Berry. As per Mallet said, Berry had lost his composure as he was pushed to far - who pushed him?

Carrying on the way the Reds have will make what difference? Berry was be most likely to be sacked based on his previous game performance.

While I maybe a "large, green, forum-defacer who lives under a bridge. It is very cold and lonely under that bridge, so he attempts to prod people who walk past so that he can have some interaction. Most pundits believe it is best to ignore said defacer" as you say, I do notice a few of the most passionate of Reds fans are writing similar thoughts to what I am expressing.


Please, for Australian rugby hold on to your views and beliefs. Continue to blame the ref, me, my children, mother, who ever you want, but it wont change the fact that the 4th placed Australian team is the most penalised. Most of us were hoping that once we got passed the low standard Australian refs, the crap that the Reds had been doing in games would be called. It did get called - excessively so to the detriment of the game, but gee - the reds are slow learners - how many warnings?

 

[Scrubber2050]

Lay off the SA Refs - WHY - they deserve all the shit they bring on themselves

 

[Braveheart81]

Lay off the SA Refs - WHY - they deserve all the shit they bring on themselves

Why?

Because you're using the performance of one South African referee to claim that they are all terrible.

 

[Scotty]

Can we stop with the South African bashing please?

This is one referee who had an absolute shocker. He also performed poorly the week before and will almost certainly be dropped from the referees squad this week (based on comments by Lyndon Bray during last week about changes coming).

There is no evidence of any conspiracy or match fixing or anything else except for one referee being not up to the job and ruining a game as a result.

The underlying issues would seeminingly be that of the entire referees panel in Super Rugby, most fans would only rate four or five of them as being decent referees. Whether that is fair or not, it certainly points to the fact that there is very little depth in refereeing ranks currently.

The only evidence we can point to is two biased performances that heavily favoured the home side and likely lead to their winning the game.

The fact that the performances were consistently one sided is enough evidence to investigate this matter further.

 

[tranquility]

This is one referee who had an absolute shocker. He also performed poorly the week before and will almost certainly be dropped from the referees squad this week (based on comments by Lyndon Bray during last week about changes coming).

Well no, it has happened two weeks in a row. The first time, people just put it down to QLD fans whinging and that would have been the case again (in some instances people still tried to fly this debate) but then Nick Mallett and others got on board and it appears as if this "guy" will be reprimanded. I get the "we all make mistakes" rhetoric, but to have two completely incompetent displays in two weeks by South African officials makes me think that this problem is a little more deep-seeded than an outlier situation that "could have happened anywhere."

Meanwhile, our season has flat-lined, and we are just to "suck it up." Not just the fans, but the money lost to our administration because of this tour could be the difference between breaking even or not this annum.

A fence doesn't make for a very good seat. Internet diplomacy is a strange beast in my eyes.

 

[tranquility]

Thanks tranquilty - I will take that as compliment. Guilty as having a dig most times i will freely admit. This however is not. I myself want Berry gone, but what offends me most - and I say this as someone who is happy to see the Reds lose - is the circus act that is transpiring before our eyes embarrassing Australian rugby being performed by the Reds supporters.

Yes the refereeing was crap, but I do believe the reds did play their part and blame who you want but even "gel" has written in the Reds 2014 thread the game is up and the Reds infringing is a well know quantity.

But interestingly, just like the focus you have put on me. it is similar to the attention the Reds brought to themselves with Berry. As per Mallet said, Berry had lost his composure as he was pushed to far - who pushed him?

Carrying on the way the Reds have will make what difference? Berry was be most likely to be sacked based on his previous game performance.

While I maybe a "large, green, forum-defacer who lives under a bridge. It is very cold and lonely under that bridge, so he attempts to prod people who walk past so that he can have some interaction. Most pundits believe it is best to ignore said defacer" as you say, I do notice a few of the most passionate of Reds fans are writing similar thoughts to what I am expressing.


Please, for Australian rugby hold on to your views and beliefs. Continue to blame the ref, me, my children, mother, who ever you want, but it wont change the fact that the 4th placed Australian team is the most penalised. Most of us were hoping that once we got passed the low standard Australian refs, the crap that the Reds had been doing in games would be called. It did get called - excessively so to the detriment of the game, but gee - the reds are slow learners - how many warnings?

If I met you in real life, I would have nothing for you. So why pretend here? Your logic is flawed, and I have no intention of helping you improve it. You will lead a miserable life with such a bitter attitude.

 

[tranquility]

I only had two issues with the Shorks last week:
1) Coetzee got away with murder at the breakdown
2) The ref's interaction with the Shorks players compared to the Reds - firstly joking and the friendliness, then the insane JdP exchange, and his no time for the Reds' captain

All in all, last week the Shorks were a better team than the Reds, although not as much as the scoreline indicated.

Not so sure the Lions were a better team this weekend.

I will say that for the Lions that Boshoff looks like a huge talent, as does their scrumhalf.

These are two pretty big infractions are they not? Allowing a player to play to his own rule book, and showing prejudice to one side.

How do we know? As I said in an earlier post, these decisions do not happen in a vacuum. They effect the ebb and flow of the game often in a manner as quantifiable as three points, but often more damning is the unquantifiable complete lack of consistency which means that the players who are being scrutinised can not even adjust their games to the interpretation. Which means they are almost playing blind.

 

[Blue]

Well no, it has happened two weeks in a row. The first time, people just put it down to QLD fans whinging and that would have been the case again (in some instances people still tried to fly this debate) but then Nick Mallett and others got on board and it appears as if this idiot / cheat / lowlife will be reprimanded. I get the "we all make mistakes" rhetoric, but to have two completely incompetent displays in two weeks by South African officials makes me think that this problem is a little more deep-seeded than an outlier situation that "could have happened anywhere."

Meanwhile, our season has flat-lined, and we are just to "suck it up." Not just the fans, but the money lost to our administration because of this tour could be the difference between breaking even or not this annum.

A fence doesn't make for a very good seat. Internet diplomacy is a strange beast in my eyes.

Wow. That's a lot of anger over a sport. Go smell a flower or something.

The world is not against you and your rugby team, trust me.

Bad luck that your team ended up on the wrong side of a guy who panicked. I'd also be pissed. We take for granted how much composure is required to do a ref's job. Not everyone has it and seems this Berry fella doesn't.

It really is that simple. Nothing more.

 

[tranquility]

Wow. That's a lot of anger over a sport. Go smell a flower or something.

The world is not against you and your rugby team, trust me.

Bad luck that your team ended up on the wrong side of a guy who panicked. I'd also be pissed. We take for granted how much composure is required to do a ref's job. Not everyone has it and seems this Berry fella doesn't.

It really is that simple. Nothing more.

Let's hope so, eternally optimistic.

 

[Braveheart81]

The only evidence we can point to is two biased performances that heavily favoured the home side and likely lead to their winning the game.

The fact that the performances were consistently one sided is enough evidence to investigate this matter further.

Well no, it has happened two weeks in a row. The first time, people just put it down to QLD fans whinging and that would have been the case again (in some instances people still tried to fly this debate) but then Nick Mallett and others got on board and it appears as if this idiot / cheat / lowlife will be reprimanded. I get the "we all make mistakes" rhetoric, but to have two completely incompetent displays in two weeks by South African officials makes me think that this problem is a little more deep-seeded than an outlier situation that "could have happened anywhere."

I really don't think you can claim that there was anything particularly wrong with the refereeing in the Sharks game. The two points of contention seem to be that Coetzee was allowed too much leeway at the breakdown which happens regularly (not in terms of Coetzee but in terms of a flanker, mostly from the home team getting away with more than they should) and the interaction between Jannie du Plessis and the referee which seems a total storm in a teacup.

I 100% agree that Berry had a shocker two weeks in a row and cost both the Blues and Reds the respective games but I really don't feel like this is an issue with South African referees overall.

It is an issue with Stuart Berry.

 

[mst]

Well no, it has happened two weeks in a row. The first time, people just put it down to QLD fans whinging and that would have been the case again (in some instances people still tried to fly this debate) but then Nick Mallett and others got on board and it appears as if this idiot / cheat / lowlife will be reprimanded. I get the "we all make mistakes" rhetoric, but to have two completely incompetent displays in two weeks by South African officials makes me think that this problem is a little more deep-seeded than an outlier situation that "could have happened anywhere."

Meanwhile, our season has flat-lined, and we are just to "suck it up." Not just the fans, but the money lost to our administration because of this tour could be the difference between breaking even or not this annum.

A fence doesn't make for a very good seat. Internet diplomacy is a strange beast in my eyes.

Ah tranquility - when on-line I try to maintain some vales and standards of which are not to troll, to argue but not fight, show respect etc where possible.

But ever so often I just cannot resist some opportunities and lower myself. This is one of those moments:

So can I suggest that you put your high-heals back on, pick up your tiara and take some affirmative action.

Hitch up your skirt and fix that lipstick then look at the comments of your fellow Reds supporters in the post game forum.

Among them you will find the SANZAR email address. Email them and express your discontent - "the Reds wont be coming out to play any more because your all mean and pick on us. If you don't promise to be nice to us and treat us special we wont don't want to be part of your game".

I know it hard when your make up is all runny to see that things will get better but they will.

Happy to help you hug it out if you want!

 

[cyclopath]

@mst - best leave this alone now, please, you're not advancing discussion at all, just stirring the pot. I think you've made whatever point you wanted to make.

 

[tranquility]

Please, if Nick Mallett had not spoken up, there would be none of this "Stuart Berry had a bad game." The Sharks officiating was not as bad, but was still not impartial. If we do not expect impartiality, and accept that officiating should include some affection for the home team, then so be it.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Well no, it has happened two weeks in a row. The first time, people just put it down to QLD fans whinging and that would have been the case again (in some instances people still tried to fly this debate) but then Nick Mallett and others got on board and it appears as if this idiot / cheat / lowlife will be reprimanded. I get the "we all make mistakes" rhetoric, but to have two completely incompetent displays in two weeks by South African officials makes me think that this problem is a little more deep-seeded than an outlier situation that "could have happened anywhere."

What's with the name calling? That's poor form and unwarranted.

A 'lowlife' for making judgment errors on a rugby field???? Some perspective is in needed tranquil.

 

[tranquility]

Ah tranquility - when on-line I try to maintain some vales and standards of which are not to troll, to argue but not fight, show respect etc where possible.

But ever so often I just cannot resist some opportunities and lower myself. This is one of those moments:

So can I suggest that you put your high-heals back on, pick up your tiara and take some affirmative action.

Hitch up your skirt and fix that lipstick then look at the comments of your fellow Reds supporters in the post game forum.

Among them you will find the SANZAR email address. Email them and express your discontent - "the Reds wont be coming out to play any more because your all mean and pick on us. If you don't promise to be nice to us and treat us special we wont don't want to be part of your game".

I know it hard when your make up is all runny to see that things will get better but they will.

Happy to help you hug it out if you want!

This is the issue with people like you, you have no character, no substance, no standards. Your attempt to retort to me is merely a homophobic rant. Whatever bogan backroom colony you have come from, I suggest you head back there and learn some manners. Otherwise you will never be able to communicate with the big kids.

 

[tranquility]

What's with the name calling? That's poor form and unwarranted.

A 'lowlife' for making judgment errors on a rugby field???? Some perspective is in needed tranquil.

Fair enough, that was out of line. I will amend it.

 

[mst]

What's with the name calling? That's poor form and unwarranted.

A 'lowlife' for making judgment errors on a rugby field???? Some perspective is in needed tranquil.

End of the day the QLD Reds are a strong team with more than capable cattle that are suffering due to poor performances and the bad end of the ref. The latter is most likely either poor tactics and execution or a player attitude problem. I personally think a combination of both.

This whole performance by SOME - not all Reds supporters does nothing for the game what so ever.

The refs are under the pump most games and it merely highlights that some may crack under pressure. I would say Berry just had a gut full of Red sadly.