Lions Tour Thread

[Pfitzy]

Swart / Rossouw / Du Randt combination that absolutely flattened all and sundry.

I really don't understand why though. Coaching maybe

Look at the names you mentioned - blokes who played before rugby was "professional" and wasn't all about beep tests so much as beef tests i.e. pre-game obstacle course against the other props in the squad involving headbutting a bullock to death, eating its carcass and then washing it down with a keg of beer before running onto the field... if you won. Third place gets the bench spot.

It ebbs and flows, even when you've got the sort of depth South African rugby has - look at us at present. Most of the time we don't have a pot to piss in in terms of front rowers, now suddenly we seem to have some promising youngsters hitting their straps, though there still isn't much behind them in the way of depth.

I think the Boks will be looking to hold their own in the scrums and look to punch it up around the fringes to win this series. Then just kick the shit out of everything else.

 

[Blue]

Swart / Rossouw / Du Randt combination that absolutely flattened all and sundry.

I really don't understand why though. Coaching maybe

Look at the names you mentioned - blokes who played before rugby was "professional" and wasn't all about beep tests so much as beef tests i.e. pre-game obstacle course against the other props in the squad involving headbutting a bullock to death, eating its carcass and then washing it down with a keg of beer before running onto the field... if you won. Third place gets the bench spot.

It ebbs and flows, even when you've got the sort of depth South African rugby has - look at us at present. Most of the time we don't have a pot to piss in in terms of front rowers, now suddenly we seem to have some promising youngsters hitting their straps, though there still isn't much behind them in the way of depth.

I think the Boks will be looking to hold their own in the scrums and look to punch it up around the fringes to win this series. Then just kick the shit out of everything else.

Du Randt very much went into the pro era and became one of the best if not the best LH in his prime. He was certainly rated at one time as the best by most international journos and coaches.

I don't think our scrum coaching at top level is up to the job. Look at the Bulls front row. They don't look like they are organized prior to the refs call. As a front rower you know how huge the setup can be. In contrast look at the Tahs front row with Foley in charge. Even when Baxter was out, a youngster came in and they were organised, very tight, going in low, strong bind all the way to the back.

From what I've heard via the Biltong wire is that Werner Kruger is one of the strongest guys to walk into the Bulls gym ever which says something. But he struggled early in the season and doesn't look in control (although he did very well yesterday and actually didn't go bad against Robinson at all). Coaching seems to lack.

As for kicking the rest of it, I think that should be the game plan but with Snor in charge I think they are going to play a lot through the midfield and then go wide. It could be great and it could be horrid, which is why the need Morne Steyn, who can switch the game plan quickly.

 

[Pfitzy]

Du Randt very much went into the pro era and became one of the best if not the best LH in his prime. He was certainly rated at one time as the best by most international journos and coaches.

Yeah but all his junior stuff was shamateur - anyone who has become a S14 prop in the last 5 years was eyeing off a contract from the time they hit senior ranks in high school.

 

[Biffo]

The Bulls from yesterday are quite good enough to take care of the EEELs.

Just to be certain, graft on the Sharks front row (the Smit at 2 version), Juan Smith and two centres.

That would give an easy 3-0.

 

[PaarlBok]

Altho I am pretty confident, sure is a bit worried the same time. S14 and high level tests not the same and think our combinations maybe a bit undercook for the 1st test. If we can survive that one it will gwt easier I think. Think WeePee & Cheetahs need to give the BleekBene a bit of a rough up before the 1st one starts.

Must say its now final fever in SA but that will be replace in no time after the final.

Here is a very special one on Gerhard Viviers, our beloved Spiekeries. He was my Mr Rugby in my days when we only had radio to bring us the game.
Those that can understand BoerTaal, a must read to get in the Lions fewer!
http://jv.news24.com/Rapport/Weekliks/0,,752-2496_2521163,00.html

 

[Blue]

Word has it that Frans Steyn is making a much quicker than thought recovery and should be ready for the Lions.

My current predicted squad (not quite preferred though):

15. Steyn - asuming fit else Kirchner (I prefer Ludick ahead of either)
14. JP Pietersen (Better kicking game than Nokwe so sorry)
13. Jacques Fourie
12. Jean de Villiers
11. Habs (regaining form. Nokwe until last week was way ahead of him)
10. Ruan Pienaar
9. Fourie Du Preez
8. Spies
7. Juan Smith
6. Schalk (I prefer Brussow)
5. Vic
4. Jowels Gougeton MCBotha
3. Smit (I prefer Jannie Doep)
2. Bismarck (I prefer Smit and Bismarck off the bench with Smit later on moving to 3)
1. Beast

Bench
16 Jannie Du Plessis (at least for first test please Snor, we need to see how Smit goes)
17 Gurthro Steenkamp (Beast goes nuts for 50 and then replaced)
18 Danie Rossouw
19 Bekker / Brussow / Schalk (Schalk or Brussow with Bekker likely to miss out unless 5/2 split)
20 Januarie (Jano Vermaak deserves it and I would rather see Kockot before the overweight Uruk-Hai)
21 Adi Jacobs covers 12,13,14
22 Earl Rose covers 10,15 (Snor likes Rose, but I would have Morne Steyn to cover 10 and 15 and as backup kicker)

Don't expect it looking much different.

Only change might be a 5/2 split on the bench with Bekker back in. Spies can cover wing in a crisis.

So now we hope Snor goes with form.

15 Kirchner

10 Morne Steyn

Pienaar on the bench, Januarie drops out
Frans Steyn on the bench, Rose drops out

Realisitally that's two so-called coloured / black (what's politically correct in SA these days?) players dropping off the bench. Both who Snor really likes.

I donl't think too many people would disagree with the above changes, but heck we aren't the selectors.

 

[PaarlBok]

I am sure if the Brutes win the S14 both Kirshner & Steyn will nail their jerseys. Saw Bosman has been called in the Bok squad for the SuidWes match and a lot of change going on there.

To get you in Snor way of thinking for the built up
Sorry for Afrikaans:
Die Burger

Beseerde Bokke krap De Villiers se kaarte deurmekaar


Kaapstad. - Die Springbok-afrigter, Peter de Villiers, is bekommerd dat beserings aan top-spelers besig is om sy planne voor die toetsreeks teen die Britse en Ierse Leeus in die wiele te ry.

De Villiers se groot uitdaging voor die eerste rugbytoets in Durban op 20 Junie is om sy spelers in ’n eenheid saam te snoer.

Beseerde Springbokke soos Schalk Burger, Jean de Villiers en Andries Bekker is vandeesweek in die groep vir die Suid-Afrikaanse Vyftiental se wedstryd teen ’n Namibiese Uitnodigingspan op Vrydag 29 Mei ingesluit.

Ander beseerdes soos Ruan Pienaar, Frans Steyn en Deon Carstens is egter nie oorweeg nie.

“Die meeste van die spelers behoort reg te wees teen die tyd wat die eerste toets aanbreek, maar ek wou die spelers vroeër hê om sinergie te bewerkstellig,” sê De Villiers.

“Ek sal sorgvuldig met hulle moet werk. Jy kan nie wild en wakker dinge probeer wanneer spelers nie 100% fiks is nie.”

De Villiers is ook nie gaande oor die gedagte om spelers, wat hy in die toetsreeks wil inspan, in provinsiale wedstryde teen die Leeus te laat speel nie.


“Daardie soort van speler probeer om in sulke wedstryde bo hul vermoëns te speel en dan is die risiko van moontlike beserings soveel groter,” sê hy.

“Die les van verlede jaar is dat dit ’n bietjie tyd neem om sinergie te kry. Dit sal ons grootste uitdaging wees.”

De Villiers het beklemtoon vandeesweek se oefengroep is gekies met die oog op die oefenwedstryd teen die Nami­biese span.

Dit beteken daarom nie die skrif is noodwendig aan die muur vir ’n speler soos die Sharks-vaskopstut Jannie du Plessis nie.

“Wat almal in die oog moet hou, is dat hierdie ’n oefengroep vir Namibië is. Daar is niks snaaks wat daarin gelees moet word nie,” sê De Villiers.

“Ons kyk na ’n paar manne wat daar gaan wees teen die Leeus en ander wat dalk leemtes sal kan vul. Daar is ’n paar manne in die oefengroep wat ook gaan uitval.


“Ek wil kyk hoe goed sekere spelers hulself kan laat geld onder die omstandighede.”


De Villiers sal waarskynlik ook die wedstryd teen die Namibiese Uitnodigingspan gebruik om sy opsies op heelagter te oorweeg.


Dit kan die Sharks-vleuels Odwa Ndungane en JP Pietersen insluit.


“Daar is ’n hele paar spelers wat ons op heelagter kan oorweeg. Hulle is Jaque Fourie, Odwa Ndungane, JP Pietersen, Zane Kirchner, Stefan Terblanche en Louis Ludik,” sê De Villiers.


“Ek sal kyk na sekere dinge wat moontlik vir ons kan werk.”


Terblanche en Ludik is egter nie in die groep wat vandeesweek aangekondig is nie. Fourie was nie beskikbaar nie omdat hy die dag ná die wedstryd trou. Kirchner is steeds by die Bulls se Super14-veldtog betrokke.

and the SuidWes team had a lot of changes and the latest version

Die Namibiese Uitnodigingspan is: Jaco van der Westhuyzen (NEC, Japan), Llewelyn Winckler (Namibië), Frikkie Welsh (Montpellier, Frankryk), Wayne Julies (Blou Bulle), John Mametsa (Bulle), Derick Hougaard (Leicester), JP Joubert (Bulle), Dries van Schalwyk (Bulle), Jacques Nieuwenhuis (Namibië), Jacques Burger (Namibië), Nico Esterhuizen (Namibië), Marco Wentzel (Leicester), Ruan Vermeulen (Bulle), Danie Coetzee (London Irish), Kees Lensing (Namibië, k). PLAASVERVANGERS: Hugo Horn (Namibië), Johnny Redelinghuys (Namibië), Fudge Mabeta (Bulle), Jurie van Tonder (Namibië), Chrisander Botha (Namibië), Nog twee.

 

[Hugonaut]

James Hook added to the squad in the place of the injured Halfpenny. Odd. 10/12 replaces a winger.

They only brought two out-halves in the initial selection. Hook essentially played his way off the plane with two disastrous outings in big games for the Ospreys, in the Anglo-Welsh semi-final against Gloucester, and in the HEC quarter-final against Munster.

A major part of Halfpenny getting his place was his place-kicking: he takes the long-range place-kicks for Cardiff, with Ben Blair taking everything inside 40. McGeechan mentioned that the lack of place-kickers in the squad was a real worry, and Delon Armitage's p¡ss-poor place-kicking in the Guinness Premiership final for London Irish against Leicester didn't help his cause ... nor did his appalling defensive performance playing at 13. He would have looked a more like-for-like replacement for Halfpenny, but his play since his non-selection for the Lions has been really poor compared to his 6 Nations form at full-back for England.

 

[Spook]

Hi Hugo

I think if we're talking form 13..It would have to be Digby Ioane. His stats in the S14 are quite unbelievable. Have a look at them if you get a chance.

Morty will shine come test time. Started to look good at seasons end.

 

[Hugonaut]

Certainly will hold my judgment - Ioane has had a great season alright in a pretty non-vintage year for the Reds. Just think that Drico surprised all his critics by turning in an absolutely blinding year, and being one of – if not the – most important factors in his two teams' success.

Also agree that Mortlock will be back. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

 

[Spook]

Certainly will hold my judgment - Ioane has had a great season alright in a pretty non-vintage year for the Reds. Just think that Drico surprised all his critics by turning in an absolutely blinding year, and being one of – if not the – most important factors in his two teams' success.

No doubt he has been great but it's been due to being a stand out centre. BOD is of the best flankers in Europe . Brilliant defensively and is a terrific leader.

 

[PaarlBok]

SA XV- 15 Earl Rose, 14 Jongi Nokwe, 13 Morgan Newman, 12 Meyer Bosman, 11 Odwa Ndungane, 10 Peter Grant, 9 Ricky Januarie, 8 Ryan Kankowski, 7 Jean Deysel, 6 Heinrich Brussow, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Johann Muller, 3 John Smit (c), 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira.
Subs: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Wian du Preez, 18 Steven Sykes, 19 Juan Smith, 20 Schalk Burger, 21 Jano Vermaak, 22 Jean de Villiers, 23 Adi Jacobs, 24 JP Pietersen.

 

[Blue]

SA XV- 15 Earl Rose, 14 Jongi Nokwe, 13 Morgan Newman, 12 Meyer Bosman, 11 Odwa Ndungane, 10 Peter Grant, 9 Ricky Januarie, 8 Ryan Kankowski, 7 Jean Deysel, 6 Heinrich Brussow, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Johann Muller, 3 John Smit (c), 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira.
Subs: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Wian du Preez, 18 Steven Sykes, 19 Juan Smith, 20 Schalk Burger, 21 Jano Vermaak, 22 Jean de Villiers, 23 Adi Jacobs, 24 JP Pietersen.

Even though Snor has made it clear that this is all experimental I am worried about that backline though. What can he possible learn from it? Why bring in a leftfield youngster from nowhere on the even of a Lions series? There is no chance he will play so what can possibly be gained? Seems like nothing but a color statement.

Why Januarie and not Vermaak?
Why not JP at 15 if rumours are to be beleived that he wants to start JP at 15?
Bosman OK becuase he had to bring someone in with JdV on the mend.

It's a solid pack though and a potentially deadly back row with some gas.

 

[Scarfman]

You know, I've always thought Earl Rose had potential if he didn't play in a crap side. It's not a bad bloke to pick to see what he can do. Like James O'Connor.

Bosman on the other hand ??? Haven't you got a better 12 somewhere?

 

[Blue]

You know, I've always thought Earl Rose had potential if he didn't play in a crap side. It's not a bad bloke to pick to see what he can do. Like James O'Connor.

Bosman on the other hand ??? Haven't you got a better 12 somewhere?

Yeah Bosman. I think he slipped the most tackles in the entire S14 or some such stat?

Bradley Barrit.

But I think he is back in the UK at Saracens

Bosman is really just a case of there being nobody else ion the squad who can play 12 until JdV and Adi are 100% fit (neither ready for 80 minutes), and Olivier and Frans Steyn arrive. Grant is also better at 12 but seems the coaches want to see him again at 10.

 

[Scarfman]

Ahhhhhhhhh, this side excludes the Bullies. My bad.

 

[Blue]

Ahhhhhhhhh, this side excludes the Bullies. My bad.

Yup and the coach has said a few times that this is an experimental squad. The real deal comes on Monday.

As far as the backline is concerned I think he will learn preciously little from the outing as there are only a handful of those players who should move on to Monday. I hope anyway.

 

[Blue]

Lions 37 - Royal XV - 25.

What stuttering start from the Lions that was. They only really pulled that one out the fire in the last ten and if it wasn't for O'Gara they might have suffered a very embarrassing loss against a bunch of nobodies.

The Lions set piece was solid bit that was to be expected. They got the arse handed to them at the breakdown though. The Golden Lions will present a far tougher challenge on Wednesday.


A good UK perceptive on the match: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article6394639.ece

The Pom media is spewing to state the obvious.

 

[PaarlBok]

On yesreteday evidense I am sure any of our S14 teams would have took them to the cleaners. Four big ones coming up for this Lions, Lions SA, Cheetahs, Sharks & WeePee. If they can survive this period it can turn into something exciting but I am afraid................... Will watch them on Newlands tho.

 

[Pfitzy]

Farkin streaky try by Byrne to clinch it I must say. Who the hell are the Royal XV?