Ireland v Australia, Saturday 26 November

[Scrubber2050]

Man, as with most things, it's probably a combination of wide and varying reasons some we can identify and some we can't.

My top picks are:
1. Cash - we have fuck all of the stuff and it makes the world turn.
2. Injuries - Pretty shitty run with injuries.
3. Grass roots - Our inability to nurture the base of the game is finally bearing its fruits on the national scene.

I think the smaller stuff is less to blame. The coaching staff at the moment are pretty slick if you ask me. The best we've had in a long time and they are making the most of a pretty shitty meal. Selections etc, are all so much easier to call out retrospectively.

An old boss of mine many years ago said to me (after I asked for a raise) that money is not a motivator. He said you would perform better initially but that you would revert to the way you were working before the raise (because you believed you were worth it).

Sure money is important, from grassroots to the top. I remember Deans got paid about a million bucks, so I can only imagine McKenzie and now Chek are enjoying a similar salary. (I not saying Chek does it for the money but its a nice feed anyway).

At Wallaby level, money is important but it's not the primary motivator of these players. We have to find a way to tap into the passion of being an Aussie (well most of them at least but that's another discussion point on it's own) playing on the world stage.

How do you do it ?

Easy question, very hard answer.

PS I said to my bastard of a boss that whilst money may not, to use your words, be a motivator, perceived lack of money of one's worth is a demotivator.

 

[Twoilms]

Not sure if i agree with your boss man. Half our team is Fijian, and they play to make as much money as possible to send back to their families in Fiji. They take one look at European money and bite. And so they should, pretty hard to instill the Australian pride in a foreign national earning money so their families can eat.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Not sure if i agree with your boss man. Half our team is Fijian, and they play to make as much money as possible to send back to their families in Fiji. They take one look at European money and bite. And so they should, pretty hard to instill the Australian pride in a foreign national earning money so their families can eat.

Begs the question ?

Sure money gets them to a club somewhere but doesn't guarantee performance on a week in week out basis.

 

[Twoilms]

Well yeah. I mean performance only becomes an issue when a player is actually playing for your team man.

For example, TK's current run of form is only relevant if he doesn't take a possible contract up with Toulon (or Toulouse or whoever).

Edit: Basically, im saying we don't have the cash to compete with the best salaries available, hence the exodus to Europe.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Well yeah. I mean performance only becomes an issue when a player is actually playing for your team man.

For example, TK's current run of form is only relevant if he doesn't take a possible contract up with Toulon (or Toulouse or whoever).

Edit: Basically, im saying we don't have the cash to compete with the best salaries available, hence the exodus to Europe.

That's true but I suppose the main guy who who definitely be in the Wallabies is Kertley and maybe Matt T and Holmes.

I have to admit my support of Samu Kerevi went up markedly when, earlier this year, he actually became a citizen of Australia. I call that commitment.

 

[Highlander35]

An old boss of mine many years ago said to me (after I asked for a raise) that money is not a motivator. He said you would perform better initially but that you would revert to the way you were working before the raise (because you believed you were worth it).

Sounds like a cheapskate.

 

[I like to watch]

^^^^
That's a generous character assessment!

 

[TOCC]

Not sure if i agree with your boss man. Half our team is Fijian, and they play to make as much money as possible to send back to their families in Fiji. They take one look at European money and bite. And so they should, pretty hard to instill the Australian pride in a foreign national earning money so their families can eat.

This is such a broad assessment and dare i say stereotype..

If you haven't already realised it doesn't matter what nationality or racial background you come from, money is a key factor in international rugby. To say players like Kuridrani or Kerevi have no national pride in Australia because of their Fijian heritage has absolutely no grounds.

Naiyaravoro Just returned form Glasgow, I find it hard to believe that he is earning more at the Tahs then he was at Glasgow.

When players like Liam Gill and Kurtley Beale, is it because they have no national pride either?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Man, as with most things, it's probably a combination of wide and varying reasons some we can identify and some we can't.

My top picks are:
1. Cash - we have fuck all of the stuff and it makes the world turn.
2. Injuries - Pretty shitty run with injuries.
3. Grass roots - Our inability to nurture the base of the game is finally bearing its fruits on the national scene.

I think the smaller stuff is less to blame. The coaching staff at the moment are pretty slick if you ask me. The best we've had in a long time and they are making the most of a pretty shitty meal. Selections etc, are all so much easier to call out retrospectively.

I disagree 2ilms. More posters here have called for changes, specifically inclusion of Coleman, Timani, Hodge and DHP long before the coaching staf showed any interest in them, than the numbers who have jumped on the bandwagon after they've finally got their chances to show what they can do.

The other change that most want to see, and have done so since the mid-year England tests, is to end the use of the Pooper. It will happen, maybe against England this week, but absolutely will happen next year. We will then see if we were in front of the game and the coaches (Cheika) just dragging the chain, or vice versa. But to date, the record of many posters regarding player selections is much better than some of the coaching staffs' picks.

 

[Braveheart81]

We will then see if we were in front of the game and the coaches (Cheika) just dragging the chain, or vice versa. But to date, the record of many posters regarding player selections is much better than some of the coaching staffs' picks.

I'm not sure that the dragging the chain comment is necessarily fair.

Lots of people profess disappointment when an in form, new player is picked for the squad and then there is a delay before they actually play a test.

Not accepting that there is a learning curve from being part of the squad and gains to be made on the training paddock before being ready for test rugby diminishes the reason why teams train.

If players didn't improve in that training environment we'd see far more people perform at the higher level at a far greater standard than they do from week 1 rather than taking time to develop.

 

[Brumby Runner]

BH, It stands to reason that new players will probably fare better with time in the squad, but over the past twelve months or so, I'm sure that some of those who have come on for the Wallabies would have done so had they been tried earlier, and they mostly had better form than the players being persisted with, eg, Coleman and Timani could both have been used earlier and fans' supoort for them has little to do with retrospectivity.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think these same arguments get used for just about every team around the world time and time again.

I think it highlights the disconnect between fans only seeing games and the importance of training, particularly at a new team.

It's not like this line of discussion is a new thing since Cheika became coach.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[p.Tah]

Late to the party. Only just able to watch the game.

I can't fathom how Ringrose's try was awarded. Pocock is taken out and held down behind the ruck (he does retaliate), then both Arnold and Kepu are obstructed by players in front Ringrose. The ref's view appears to be obstructed by an Aussie, yet he awards it straight away without referral.

Is it yellow tinted glasses or have I missed something?

 

[Slim 293]

Lost to Ireland who we would have expected to comfortably win 12 months ago.

Except that 12 months is a long time in rugby and they recently beat the All Blacks.........

 

[gel]

Late to the party. Only just able to watch the game.

I can't fathom how Ringrose's try was awarded. Pocock is taken out and held down behind the ruck (he does retaliate), then both Arnold and Kepu are obstructed by players in front Ringrose. The ref's view appears to be obstructed by an Aussie, yet he awards it straight away without referral.

Is it yellow tinted glasses or have I missed something?View attachment 8741

You didn't miss a thing.

It was obvious from first viewing.

The only thing that made it a legitimate try is the referee awarding it, which just so happens to be the most important criteria.

 

[barbarian]

Yeah the more I look at that the more it annoys me.

Ringrose ducks in like an NFL running back, he knew what he was doing. Garces didn't even bother looking at an alternate angle.

The question is - when will we get our apology from Alain Rolland??
.

 

[Micheal]

Yeah the more I look at that the more it annoys me.

Ringrose ducks in like an NFL running back, he knew what he was doing. Garces didn't even bother looking at an alternate angle.

The question is - when will we get our apology from Alain Rolland??
.

I wouldn't count on it happening.

That angle is ridiculous though. Arnolds almost got an arm around him but hes being blocked by the Irish lock. So much for the Irish fan's comments on Reddit that "Arnold wouldn't have even gotten close to him anyway".

 

[Twoilms]

Late to the party. Only just able to watch the game.

I can't fathom how Ringrose's try was awarded. Pocock is taken out and held down behind the ruck (he does retaliate), then both Arnold and Kepu are obstructed by players in front Ringrose. The ref's view appears to be obstructed by an Aussie, yet he awards it straight away without referral.

Is it yellow tinted glasses or have I missed something?View attachment 8741

Made all the more galling given past tries not awarded to us.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I have to admit my support of Samu Kerevi went up markedly when, earlier this year, he actually became a citizen of Australia. I call that commitment.

Agreed well done to Samu, he did it off his own accord, great commitment and not done under the necessity of trying to qualify for the Australian Olympics 7's while being a citizen of another country.

 

[Brumby Jack]

The question is - when will we get our apology from Alain Rolland??
.

Just need to forward the hotel details then it should be sorted.....