Herald Sun Article - Rugby boring

[RoffsChoice]

Australian international rugby might not have been brilliant this year, but can you say the same of New Zealand, South Africa, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Argentina... ect?
And what about Super Rugby? Supporters of the Reds, Brumbies and Rebels are surely still happy with the two years in the finals for the former and the vast improvements for the last two?
There are bad games sometimes, like the Scotland match or the Loftus match. Doesn't mean we don't get any good ones.

 

[nomis]

I wouldn't read too much into the Herald Sun. They're just trying to appease their readers. At the same time, I don't want to be too defensive and unable to weigh up what the critics are saying.

So my question is, is rugby as good as it could be, or is there something that could be tweaked to make it better? I'm not talking about turning it into a game of league.

On Sat, we saw a defensive style of rugby at it's best. It wasn't boring. And it connected well with the situation for both teams, and what was on the line.

But is there any law that could be realistically tweaked to open up the play a little more, and create more opportunities for more passing and running (not necessarily more tries)?

 

[BDA]

I think rugby league fans suffer from a serious inferiority complex. They constantly feel the need to tell you how boring rugby is, the the players are underskilled and cant tackle, that there arent enough tries, that rugby forwards arent fit enough to hang in league, that the ruck doesnt make sense etc. I dont know about you but when im sitting around watching a game of league with mates or my old man, i dont feel the need to constantly point out the Flaws in the game, the fact that it's repetitive as shit, the fact that coming out of your own end of the field is too easy, the fact that the scrums are a joke, the fact that the only time a team gets to contest possession is when the other team puts a bomb up, etc... no I sit and enjoy it for what it is. Its an entertaining sport, but its not as interesting as rugby.

The thing i like most about rugby is that it is extremely tactical. Teams can play to their strengths whether that be strong outside backs, a powerful scrum, a dominant lineout, a disruptive backrow...hell you can even play a territory game based on kicking the ball into the opposition half and relying on defensive pressure (ala the Boks). I've never understood why some league fans don't appreciate these aspects of the game.

I think League's inferiority complex stems from the fact that nobody outside of NSW/QLD cares about the sport. If league fans think rugby is boring then they dont have to watch it, I just wish they'd stop telling

For the record I really enjoyed the test match on Saturday. Despite the sloppy play in the second half, ti was a true test match, two teams in a dog fight using whatever aspect of the game they could to generate points. It was intriguing.

 

[Moses]

Interesting article, despite the massive holes in many of Dean Ritchie's arguments. I thought Jamie Pandaram did a good job, and that this was an excellent Test match.

Eighty minutes, 12 penalty goals, no tries, 50 stoppages, 15 shots at goal. How bloody embarrassing.
85 minutes actually, huge intensity.

In the three Bledisloe Cup games this year, the Wallabies didn't score a try.
Yep, no tries. Apart from the try they scored, obviously.

Both sides ran for a combined total of 937m on Saturday night. In the league Test, they ran for 2867m.
Comparing yardage is a pretty lame; in League there an easy 20 metres for the full back to truck it back to the defensive line every 5th tackle! Add another 5 metres each play with the defence back 10m, it's hardly a balanced comparison

"We're really, really disappointed," All Blacks coach Steve Hansen said.
Is it surprising that a coach on the verge of setting a record for straight wins would be disapointed [sic] with a draw?

 

[Scoey]

I think the constant Union bashing by League types highlights nicely the insecurity they harbour about their own game. They constantly try and improve it which is commendable, but in doing so, they make the game more and more sterile IMO. I love that Union is a game for all types and skill sets and that you need just the right mix of these various shapes and sizes to be competitive.

I was at the game on Sat night. It sure as shit wasn't pretty, but it was one of the more thrilling and memorable games I have seen in a long time. Loved it!

I watch a teeny bit of NRL (State of Origin only really), next to no AFL, and zero Football. This year I watched both the NRL and AFL GF's. Loved the AFL but thought that the NRL was one of the more boring spectacles I have seen in a while.

Each to their own, but I'm not sure why people feel the need to compare League and Union. Kinda like comparing basketball and netball for mine. Sure if you squint, they kind of look similar, but they are completely different.

 

[wilful]

I can't stand rugby league (such a boring and limited game), but if you think that proper rugby is in great shape, I think you're deluded. Market share has gone backwards in recent years. It's impenetrable to new viewers, the refereeing and rules interpretation is arbitrary, whimsical even, the constant stoppages and breaks in play are a turn-off. The attempt to introduce new laws a few years ago was basically frustrated by petty rubbish, no one kept in mind the bigger picture which was that the game needs to be expanded, made more entertaining, fast flowing. Fat blokes running into each other and doing things that are unknown and apparently unknowable to the majority of us is, despite your cauliflower ears badge of pride, not a TV spectacle. The first thing they need to do is do something to stop scrum resets. Maybe get rid of the hit, I don't know, whatever it requires. The AFL tinker with their rules every single year, to make it what the crowds want without throwing out the heritage. They have booming attendance figures and club memberships.

I don't mind too much that rugby will continue to be a niche sport, something has to be, but there is so much talent that wont get to experience the greatest game because of narrow parochial and conservative views of what rugby is limited to being. I reckon 7s will end up eating the main game's lunch.

 

[Scoey]

Fat blokes running into each other and doing things that are unknown and apparently unknowable to the majority of us is, despite your cauliflower ears badge of pride, not a TV spectacle. The first thing they need to do is do something to stop scrum resets. Maybe get rid of the hit, I don't know, whatever it requires.

I'm probably in the minority, but I like the fat blokes running into each other bit of the game. No, actually , I love it! I love that they do all manner of unthinkable things to each other also.

Stopping the scrum resets is important, but for heavens sake, don't take away the hit. Apart from taking two blokes off the paddock, this was the main step that league took to sterilise their game. The scrums go down because a) the front 3 aren't up to it physically/skilfully or b) the props can't get a bind because of the ridiculous jerseys they wear these days. I'd say the majority are in the latter category and fixing this bit is easy.

 

[nomis]

Market share has gone backwards in recent years. It's impenetrable to new viewers, the refereeing and rules interpretation is arbitrary, whimsical even, the constant stoppages and breaks in play are a turn-off. The attempt to introduce new laws a few years ago was basically frustrated by petty rubbish, no one kept in mind the bigger picture which was that the game needs to be expanded, made more entertaining, fast flowing. Fat blokes running into each other and doing things that are unknown and apparently unknowable to the majority of us is, despite your cauliflower ears badge of pride, not a TV spectacle. The first thing they need to do is do something to stop scrum resets. Maybe get rid of the hit, I don't know, whatever it requires.

As a professional sport this is important. It simply has to be acknowledged that rugby is part of the entertainment industry. And as such, it depends upon being appealing and entertaining.

The balance is to keep traditional rugby lovers loving the game whilst tweaking the laws to make the game more appealing and entertaining to a wider audience and new markets.

I'm not talking about drastic changes, and I use the word 'tweak' on purpose. But when we see a game of thrilling, free-flowing, running rugby (and we all know thrilling when we see it) there is no sport that compares.

But whilst maintaining the dynamic and diverse styles of play that rugby allows, the 'thrilling parts' need to be there more consistently.

Saturdays game wasn't boring by any means. And it was intense because of what was on the line.

But that game aside, we all know rugby has even more to offer. And it's just about offering that something else more often and more consistently.

 

[nugget]

The problem with leaguies watching union is they are only watching for the one dimension they are used to - back line play. The rest they don't understand so claim it to be boring.

Leaguies see a scrum set and look the other way, they are not trained to watch a scrum, a scrum should last 10 secs and be done with. They have no idea what is happening. The beauty of 2 tonnes of pigs bashing together, they don't get it, they never will. They just want backs running the ball, and kicking on 5th. They don't understand the contest for the ball in the rucks and mauls, that to them is slowing up the play.

There are no forwards in League just big backs. That's why they think rugby is boring. They don't understand forwards and what they do, and as an ex pig myself the forwads and what they do are the best bit about union. Leaguies just need a bit of edjamaction when it comes to union, but alas...

 

[Swat]

Put aside league v union for a moment fellas, and think about union 2012/11 compared to union 2010. Big difference in quality imo, and this year tha lack of quality has seen it without doubt go down the shitter in Aus. Don't know about anywhere else

The biggest point of difference for me was we went from having giteau/barnes as a 12 in the last game of the year against the frogs (59-10?) with scintillating backline play to having McCabe at 12 against Samoa for the first game of 2011 (and we all remember how that went). This persistance of a non-ball playing 12 has fucked our backline play.

 

[nomis]

The problem with leaguies watching union is they are only watching for the one dimension they are used to - back line play. The rest they don't understand so claim it to be boring.

Fair point. You can't expect a game of league when you watch union.

That being said, we've all seen games of union that have more ball in hand, running, passing, etc (esp. short passing among the fwds themselves) that might make us wonder why league continues to even exist.

I think rugby's strength is that it is such a dynamic game. But while this gives it the potential to thrill the crowd much more so than league, it also gives it the potential to let the crowd down if they come with the expectation of this kind of thrill - and hence people's frustration with rugby at times.

I know ideas like widening the field, or reducing the number of players, or bringing back rucking, or changing the scoring system, etc. are not always popular, and would have their down sides, but there are games where I can understand why people make these suggestions.

 

[rugbyvet]

Does everyone agree there is too many penalty goals? Surely a simple and very easy way to try and increase tries is to reduce the points for a penalty goal to 1. That way teams will be more inclined to go for a try. At moment a penalty in opposition 50 (or 60 for some kickers ) results in a shot at goal

 

[nomis]

Does everyone agree there is too many penalty goals? Surely a simple and very easy way to try and increase tries is to reduce the points for a penalty goal to 1. That way teams will be more inclined to go for a try. At moment a penalty in opposition 50 (or 60 for some kickers ) results in a shot at goal

A good thread discussing that kind of idea:

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/new-point-system.10152/

 

[Blue]

Recently a friend from SA visited me here in Sydney. He had never seen a rugby league game (much like most Saffers until recently - I think they now show some games over there and with SBW the awareness will have increased a little).

We sat down to one of the NRL playoffs and after about ten minutes he asked me if this was a game for stupid people.

Never seen the game, never been privvy to the back and forth between league and Union.

But I have to agree that the game is becoming a little boring. I haven't thought much about why. It's not about tries. That's just an excuse for stupid people who can't appreciate much more than small fleeting moments because their brains can't process more.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Recently a friend from SA visited me here in Sydney. He had never seen a rugby league game (much like most Saffers until recently - I think they now show some games over there and with SBW the awareness will have increased a little).

We sat down to one of the NRL playoffs and after about ten minutes he asked me if this was a game for stupid people.

Never seen the game, never been privvy to the back and forth between league and Union.

But I have to agree that the game is becoming a little boring. I haven't thought much about why. It's not about tries. That's just an excuse for stupid people who can't appreciate much more than small fleeting moments because their brains can't process more.

Blue, I find League to be unwatchable these days. The skill level is good enough, but it's 5 tackles, kick, 5 tackles, kick etc until someone scores. And there's no contest for the pill! Even in Aussie rules the competition for the ball is as fierce as rugby. It's what makes contact sport worth watching.

 

[hawktrain]

Does anyone else remember the days from the early 2000's (I only just remember it. I was pretty young and it was my introduction to rugby) where games would commonly have 70+ points scored, mainly due to the way Super 12 was played, and league people would criticise rugby for having too many tries and weak defences? Now it's the other way around, 10 or so years on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big league supporter, but big parts of the league media would have a go at rugby for any possible reason.

 

[liquor box]

I don't watch rugby for tries, if that's your go then just watch 7s.

I watch it for collisions mainly, and that game on the weekend had plenty. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

The NRL final was defense orientated as well.

I like tries, but they are not my favourite part of the game.

I really like watching guys fight for posession of the ball, sitting on the edge of your seat hoping that Gill, Pocock or Hooper will somehow be able to hold onto a ball with 6 guys trying to knock them backwards, and then to see them pop up with the ball is awesome, I even celebrate the earning of a penalty. This is what League lacks, it is not a contest for posession, you dont have to even win the ball off your opponant, just wait until their tackles are up or they kick it to you. Whenever the number of stoppages are mention in comparisons between the sports it is always overlooked that league has about 400-500 stoppages in every game. Once held is called you are not allowed to contest the ball, not even at the play the ball anymore. Essentially the game stops for a few seconds everytime a tackle is made. I wont even mention the lack of ball handling skills that has come about through the changes to stripping rules that essentially means you hope an opponant touches the ball so you can drop it and they get blamed for your lack of skill. (looks like I mentioned it!)

I love scrums, I dont like resets, but love scrums! I enjoy watching a team that should be dominated holding their own, or a new young prop trying to just hold his ground, never mind pushing forward, but just to keep his side of the scrum still. I remember fondly a young Ben Daley very early on being attacked for his lack of scrummaging ability holding his own on his own tryline to stop a pushover try and I was as excited as I have ever been seeing a try. This is again a contest for posession and requires a technical skill, I think League players/supporters/writers think that you just lean forward and push a bit harder than a league scrum, they dont understand that there are massive amounts of skill involved in packing a scrum, and doing it without breaking your neck.

I think the only bit of the game I dont enjoy is when a team does not contest a lineout, to me it is not in the spirit of the game, you should be trying to control the posession.

As for League, I just dont have the ability to get excited by it, I admit I will watch the Rabbitohs play each week as I have for years, but I never watch it live, I will watch it and fast forward through most of the game just looking for highlights, either a guy getting knocked out, or a try being scored. Most of the time I can get through a game in about 20minutes.

 

[liquor box]

I wouldn't read too much into the Herald Sun. They're just trying to appease their readers. At the same time, I don't want to be too defensive and unable to weigh up what the critics are saying.

So my question is, is rugby as good as it could be, or is there something that could be tweaked to make it better? I'm not talking about turning it into a game of league.

On Sat, we saw a defensive style of rugby at it's best. It wasn't boring. And it connected well with the situation for both teams, and what was on the line.

But is there any law that could be realistically tweaked to open up the play a little more, and create more opportunities for more passing and running (not necessarily more tries)?

The only minor change I would make is make the defence stand 50cm behind the ruck, it is only a little change but allows the attacking team to get one step in before collision and could really put the defence on its back feet and allow a team to get a rolling momentum happening. I dont know if it would make it impossible to defend as you would instantly get called for offside if you were getting destroyed.

I would also look at some penalties not allowing a kick for goal

 

[chasmac]

I was discussing the game with a kiwi work mate today and his take was that the space just doesn't exist like it used to, because there isn't enough disincentive for the defensive team to not take up space and slow the ruck down. Unfortunately Rugby just doesn't work as well without rucking.

I unfortunately think he may be right.

The AB defense is the thing that has won them the majority of games this year
K Reid is the master at taking space by rushing out of the defensive line.
I agree with Chargers comments above.
The defending team has gained the ascendancy again. The rules need to be looked at to re-establish the balance.

 

[Dan54]

The only minor change I would make is make the defence stand 50cm behind the ruck, it is only a little change but allows the attacking team to get one step in before collision and could really put the defence on its back feet and allow a team to get a rolling momentum happening. I dont know if it would make it impossible to defend as you would instantly get called for offside if you were getting destroyed.

I would also look at some penalties not allowing a kick for goal

We got them already liquorbox, they called free kicks.