I like to watch
David Codey (61)
That's what happens when the coach knows that the next loss will be his last one.You stop making decisions based on the long term.Everything is about the best chance of winning the next game.
For Sale: One Test 10
- Thread starter fatprop
- Start date
- Status
That's what happens when the coach knows that the next loss will be his last one.You stop making decisions based on the long term.Everything is about the best chance of winning the next game.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
$$$
GaffaCHinO
Peter Sullivan (51)
Now or 2 years ago?
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
I've heard most of the rumors about O'Connor, including a few that havent been talked about in the media. And a couple from way back when he was at nudgee as well.
But it seems pretty clear to me his problems in wallaby camp all relate to little things that detriment the team, like missing the team bus or the team photo. It's not like he's been off fighting on the piss like beale, but its more the direct little things that ruin your relationship with the senior players.
But just to counterbalance this thread a bit:
I'd like to see him at the reds because it would force him to confront some of his failed relationships from the past I.E. Graham and his wallaby captain Horwill. Would also force him to play somewhere in the backline that isn't 10.
But it seems pretty clear to me his problems in wallaby camp all relate to little things that detriment the team, like missing the team bus or the team photo. It's not like he's been off fighting on the piss like beale, but its more the direct little things that ruin your relationship with the senior players.
But just to counterbalance this thread a bit:
I'd like to see him at the reds because it would force him to confront some of his failed relationships from the past I.E. Graham and his wallaby captain Horwill. Would also force him to play somewhere in the backline that isn't 10.
BPC
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Let's consider Brand O'Connor's qualities:
* He is great one on one and a strong runner but can't set up other players.
* He is a solid defender for his size.
* He apparently has an ego problem that has led to him acting like he believes he is entitled to decide whether or not to obey the rules and whether or not to fit in with the team culture.
* A reasonable short kicking game but an ordinary long kicking game.
He is the very model of a league halfback. All he has to do is take a dump in a shoe or urinate in public to be the next Dally M winner.
* He is great one on one and a strong runner but can't set up other players.
* He is a solid defender for his size.
* He apparently has an ego problem that has led to him acting like he believes he is entitled to decide whether or not to obey the rules and whether or not to fit in with the team culture.
* A reasonable short kicking game but an ordinary long kicking game.
He is the very model of a league halfback. All he has to do is take a dump in a shoe or urinate in public to be the next Dally M winner.
BarneySF
Bob Loudon (25)
I'm actually still a bit surprised at the relative leniency that is being shown to KB (Kurtley Beale) compared to JOC (James O'Connor) when you do a straight comparison of their recent antics. Obviously, the JOC (James O'Connor) issue stems from attitudinal issues, whereas KB (Kurtley Beale) is likely seen as a more 'serious' issue that merits ongoing treatment/rehabilitation. But FFS, KB (Kurtley Beale) smacked his skipper while pissed, as well as being shirtless on the team bus (always found that odd) in addition to Burgergate/snoozeville. I might be conflating the events which were separated by a period of time (the latter being in a HUGE test week), but JOC (James O'Connor) must be feeling the hate when you have Rebels teammates still supporting Beale, after all that while saying ‘good-riddance’ to him.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Read this thread and thought we were talking about a five eight.
JOC (James O'Connor) isn't a number 10 - well the general consensus on the forum is he's not a 10.
He has incredible skills, and an incredible personality, and I think he needs an incredible mentor with people skills to balance certain areas.
Nothing wrong with a player being confident and arrogant - but it needs to be equally offset by being humble and respectful.
JOC (James O'Connor) isn't a number 10 - well the general consensus on the forum is he's not a 10.
He has incredible skills, and an incredible personality, and I think he needs an incredible mentor with people skills to balance certain areas.
Nothing wrong with a player being confident and arrogant - but it needs to be equally offset by being humble and respectful.
I have less concerns over his ability to be a decent 10 than many.
Subject to one caveat, his ability to learn to be the facilitator instead of the 'star'
His current threat is running game, he requires defender's attention
If he can develop his pass and support game, he could be anything, a second touch from him in a movement would have real threat, much more threat than a one out run
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Subject to one caveat, his ability to learn to be the facilitator instead of the 'star'
His current threat is running game, he requires defender's attention
If he can develop his pass and support game, he could be anything, a second touch from him in a movement would have real threat, much more threat than a one out run
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Don't agree. Some players have the vision and are facilitators, others are not. You will waste a good running outside back trying to make them into something they are not naturally.
To continue your statement, Julian Savea is a huge running threat, he requires defenders' attention. If Savea can develop his passing and supporting game, he could be anything. A second touch from him in a movement would be a real threat, much more a threat than a one out run.
Why not make Savea a 10?
Sure, you may succeed, but then again, you may not. If you succeed you may develop a good running 5/8, but he will never be a natural facilitator, and his natural running game will be curtailed somewhat. If you fail, you may have ruined a great outside back (or 12 or 13, whatever). Either way, you've lost a key outside back in the meantime.
If a Super XV wants to go down that road, good luck to them. But at test level, no way.
Now to the insanity of the previous situation.....
What's more, why not do it in a key test series that only occurs every 12 years? That's before the following information:
1. He was trialled there a few years ago for a few games on an EOYT, and the same coach was quoted as saying "[he] is not a 10".
2. He played at 10 during the Super XV this year, and was poor - in fact, he was out pointed by Cooper, who had two charge downs leading to tries in the same game!
3. He is disliked by most of the players on the team (Wallabies or Rebels, take your pick), is known to have attitude problems, and frequently breaks team protocol.
4. You know he views himself as a "star" player, who generally looks to his own opportunities first.
You think this is just the player you want to develop in a key position in the team (in which he was little to no experience) in which he has to develop key combinations with other team members in a short period of time?
I hold my head in my hands at the amount of people on here who supported the JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 call.
Cassius88
Sydney Middleton (9)
I think this could really be a good thing for JOC (James O'Connor)'s development. QC (Quade Cooper)/JOC (James O'Connor)/KB (Kurtley Beale) all have one thing in common: they've never had to work for it. They've all got more raw talent in their little finger than most people ever will. This has been their greatest asset and their worst enemy. They've all spent their whole lives being told that they're superstars and that no one could ever be as good as them, to the point that they started to believe that they were infallible.
QC (Quade Cooper) got a rude shock when he was dropped from the Test team and it looked like his rugby career might be over. Since then he has obviously realised that he is not indispensable and has looked like a much better player and, more importantly, person.
After these latest events JOC (James O'Connor) may finally realise that his raw talent isn't enough to get him by any more. I sincerely hope he stays in Australian rugby (as a Brumbies supporter I'm glad there's no chance of him moving to Canberra) and decides to knuckle down and really make something of himself (as an outside back).
I'm worried that KB (Kurtley Beale)'s latest troubles seem to have been glossed over so quickly. I think he could do with some tough love so he decides to work his own issues out. The best thing for all three of these guys would be to play at different Australian provinces where they are aware of what is expected of them and the tight leash they are on.
QC (Quade Cooper) got a rude shock when he was dropped from the Test team and it looked like his rugby career might be over. Since then he has obviously realised that he is not indispensable and has looked like a much better player and, more importantly, person.
After these latest events JOC (James O'Connor) may finally realise that his raw talent isn't enough to get him by any more. I sincerely hope he stays in Australian rugby (as a Brumbies supporter I'm glad there's no chance of him moving to Canberra) and decides to knuckle down and really make something of himself (as an outside back).
I'm worried that KB (Kurtley Beale)'s latest troubles seem to have been glossed over so quickly. I think he could do with some tough love so he decides to work his own issues out. The best thing for all three of these guys would be to play at different Australian provinces where they are aware of what is expected of them and the tight leash they are on.
T
Tip
Guest
This is a little misleading, Quade has obviously worked hard on his game since his horror debut against the chiefs years ago..
I agree, KB (Kurtley Beale) and JOC (James O'Connor) both need tough love. KB (Kurtley Beale) shouldn't have been allowed back in the first place. He punched his captain in the face, Quade verbally slapped his coach. I believe that the violent offense is worse, and considering they both copped the same fine, it's a little wonder Deans was sacked for not including him.
Cassius88
Sydney Middleton (9)
Fair point, and I'm sure they've all worked on their games since leaving high school (I remember KB (Kurtley Beale)'s debut where he thought that he could just chip-kick his way to success and nothing else), but I mean really worked. The kind of work that players like Pat McCabe and many others have put in every day of their lives. The work that meant staying at home when your 18 year old mates were out on the tear, never drinking, eating the right food, doing the right training just to get an outside chance of playing in a Super rugby team, let alone the Wallabies.
Hell West & Crooked
Alex Ross (28)
So putting aside all the hype, and the 'weekend-warrior comments' elsewhere on the internet, is anyone here close enough to the Force or Rebels squads to clarify what is really the issue with this bloke?... Rugby has had its fair share of a-holes, who have never wound up quite so pariah-like as James O'Connor... What is the reality?
Try-ranosaurus Rex
Darby Loudon (17)
[QUOTEhttp://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/r...deans-is-bounced/story-fnh5q2e7-1226676224407
Jesus christ, what idiots. They really know how to repay the goodwill Deans entrusted in them hey? It's one thing to be a young footy player that gets caught up in one or two mess ups when you're 19 or at the pubs off training/ season with mates, but this is just plain stupidity. At this stage, I don't think either deserve to play part in TRC as they clearly have no respect for the jersey and their are others who can fill the roles with consumate ease.
I hope Link straightens them out ASAP. [/QUOTE]
Apparently they weren't the only ones at Iguana bar in the early hours of Sunday morning.
I have heard first hand that most of the Wallabies were there including Horwill, Alexander, Douglas, Lealiifano, Tomane, and a heap of others. Seems like they partied after an official function. Apparently Beale wasn't drinking.
No harm done.
Jesus christ, what idiots. They really know how to repay the goodwill Deans entrusted in them hey? It's one thing to be a young footy player that gets caught up in one or two mess ups when you're 19 or at the pubs off training/ season with mates, but this is just plain stupidity. At this stage, I don't think either deserve to play part in TRC as they clearly have no respect for the jersey and their are others who can fill the roles with consumate ease.
I hope Link straightens them out ASAP. [/QUOTE]
Apparently they weren't the only ones at Iguana bar in the early hours of Sunday morning.
I have heard first hand that most of the Wallabies were there including Horwill, Alexander, Douglas, Lealiifano, Tomane, and a heap of others. Seems like they partied after an official function. Apparently Beale wasn't drinking.
No harm done.
ChargerWA
Mark Loane (55)
I'm personally quite so surprised how quickly the public have turned on JOC (James O'Connor). It will be quite a rude shock to him. But the Australian public has a histroy of a love/hate relationship with our challenging sports stars.
I guess a couple of things have happened. He was entrusted with the responsibility to lead our national team around in one of the most important sporting events to happen these last few years. Most people would forgive losing if he had given his best, but being at Hungry Jacks at 4am of a test week points that he didn't give his all.
Coupled with him now being old enough and being around long enough to know whats expected of him. I guess the public has arrived at FIFO in relation to JOC (James O'Connor). Fit in or fuck off.
I guess a couple of things have happened. He was entrusted with the responsibility to lead our national team around in one of the most important sporting events to happen these last few years. Most people would forgive losing if he had given his best, but being at Hungry Jacks at 4am of a test week points that he didn't give his all.
Coupled with him now being old enough and being around long enough to know whats expected of him. I guess the public has arrived at FIFO in relation to JOC (James O'Connor). Fit in or fuck off.
- Status