For Sale: One Test 10

[Tip]

I guess the public has arrived at FIFO in relation to JOC (James O'Connor). Fit in or fuck off.

Thank goodness for clearing that up, I've been ever so confused about how JOC (James O'Connor) would do the Fly in, Fly out for the Force..

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Thank goodness for clearing that up, I've been ever so confused about how JOC (James O'Connor) would do the Fly in, Fly out for the Force..

Most of Perth does it - he would have fitted right in!

 

[Train Without a Station]

So putting aside all the hype, and the 'weekend-warrior comments' elsewhere on the internet, is anyone here close enough to the Force or Rebels squads to clarify what is really the issue with this bloke?. Rugby has had its fair share of a-holes, who have never wound up quite so pariah-like as James O'Connor. What is the reality?

I spoke candidly with a younger Rebels player on Saturday night. Despite my encouragement on the subject, seemed to sincerely defend JOC (James O'Connor)"s character. Was a pretty informal setting where he could have really said something along the lines of what Ben McCalman did with a bit more profanity and did not hesitate not to. While diplomatic was less flattering in his endorsement of Beale's.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

while he has gotten on the wrong side of Higginbotham clearly, the coaching and management staff, the club management, mitch inman, seemingly ged robinson given the paper today and i assume a few more players.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

I'm personally quite so surprised how quickly the public have turned on JOC (James O'Connor). It will be quite a rude shock to him. But the Australian public has a histroy of a love/hate relationship with our challenging sports stars.

I guess a couple of things have happened. He was entrusted with the responsibility to lead our national team around in one of the most important sporting events to happen these last few years. Most people would forgive losing if he had given his best, but being at Hungry Jacks at 4am of a test week points that he didn't give his all.

Coupled with him now being old enough and being around long enough to know whats expected of him. I guess the public has arrived at FIFO in relation to JOC (James O'Connor). Fit in or fuck off.

I think it is wrong to characterize the public - Australian or anyone else - as 'turning on him'... generally, people treat you according to the manner in which you present yourself, and the way you behave... You can attempt to emulate John Eales or Ian Jones, you can attempt to emulate Kurtley Beale or Todd Carney - but in general terms you will be judged on how consistently - and honestly - you present your character (and your human frailties)...

Gaining an impression of someone IS a judgment- it may not be permanent, but a judgment, it is. He may be more high profile than you or I - but he is re-imbursed accordingly.

- Every day, you and I and most of us are judged according to how we work, how we speak, and how we present ourselves. This is not 'turning on someone'. It is natural enough to grow tired of someone's behavior - if that behavior is tiresome.

Contrast that with the public lynching of Stephanie Rice over her innocuous use of a (common-enough term), a few years ago. Jaguar really did 'turn on her' - and gave in to politically correct thuggery. There is not much larrikin left in the Australian character, thanks to our odious media.

Its not 'recent' with JOC (James O'Connor) - I remember stories coming out of the Force, and back from Autumn Tours a few seasons ago - and it became more public when he failed to front at the team launch for the last RWC.

I can remember when he played that tremendous game in Hong Kong a few years ago, where there was much talk about "nice skills, shame about the bloke".

 

[Tex]

Those that have come out in support of him aren't paragons of virtue and modesty. It's one thing for your 'bungy brother' to tell the world you're a good bloke and that the big mean club has got it wrong.

It's another for people who are generally respected for their work ethic and contribution to come out and dispel the slurs made against your character.

In James' case there's a number of people from column A, and deafening silence from column B. That silence tells more than misspelled missives on twitter that are deleted five minutes after being posted.

 

[Train Without a Station]

while he has gotten on the wrong side of Higginbotham clearly, the coaching and management staff, the club management, mitch inman, seemingly ged robinson given the paper today and i assume a few more players.

Yeah I only noted it because I personally find him the worst of the lot, and was intruiged to hear somebody else's opinion who knew him. Don't worry, I still think JOC (James O'Connor) is a prat.

 

[Bowside]

Fair point, and I'm sure they've all worked on their games since leaving high school (I remember KB (Kurtley Beale)'s debut where he thought that he could just chip-kick his way to success and nothing else), but I mean really worked. The kind of work that players like Pat McCabe and many others have put in every day of their lives. The work that meant staying at home when your 18 year old mates were out on the tear, never drinking, eating the right food, doing the right training just to get an outside chance of playing in a Super rugby team, let alone the Wallabies.

Cooper has improved his game far more than most other professional rugby players.

He was truly shocking in his first couple of seasons for the reds. Many thought he woudn't be anything more than a club player.

JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale were stars from the get-go. Cooper only really hit form in his 4th season of super rugby.

 

[swingpass]

i think tex has it right
the absolute lack of any endorsement of him as a team "man" from anyone (even Dingo) from within rugby fraternity, is for me the most telling comment. from all accounts he trains hard, does his off field endorsements (perhaps apparently when it suits him), and we can all see his enormous rugby talent; but not one player, administrator, or commentator has given him visible support and the only province apparently after him, has already jettisoned him once and is placing significant proviso's on his return. they can't all be wrong in their assessment can they?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

i think tex has it right
the absolute lack of any endorsement of him as a team "man" from anyone (even Dingo) from within rugby fraternity, is for me the most telling comment. from all accounts he trains hard, does his off field endorsements (perhaps apparently when it suits him), and we can all see his enormous rugby talent; but not one player, administrator, or commentator has given him visible support and the only province apparently after him, has already jettisoned him once and is placing significant proviso's on his return. they can't all be wrong in their assessment can they?

And that's the rub in the end, isn't it. Nobody has publicly come to JOC (James O'Connor)'s defence in any way that I can remember.

I tend to judge by their deeds and less by their words. JOC (James O'Connor)'s behaviour over the last couple of seasons has given most of us the impression that he's an over-indulged, over-paid jerk off with little regard for team culture and an over inflated self-regard. I don't care how talented bloke is, rugby is a team game (perhaps the ultimate team game) and if you can't fit in then fuck off (as intimated above). In a sport where you are so reliant on the work and commitment of others around you, you cannot afford to disrespect the rest of the squad like he has.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I have less concerns over his ability to be a decent 10 than many.

Subject to one caveat, his ability to learn to be the facilitator instead of the 'star'

That's always been my issue with him at 10, he's always looking for what's on for himself before others. I've said before that he needs to be playing in a position where selfishness (to a degree) is a virtue, where he can put his freakish individual skills to their best use.

All the great five-eighths in Australia's history have not only had great hands, boot and were at least some sort of running threat, they've also had the vision and wit to take the right option at a given moment. They bring other players into the game and maximise the team's potential to score.

I reckon Ella, Lynagh or Larkham would have fully unleashed the firepower of that backline we had against the Lions. And it would have been devastating.

 

[ChargerWA]

I think it is wrong to characterize the public - Australian or anyone else - as 'turning on him'. generally, people treat you according to the manner in which you present yourself, and the way you behave. You can attempt to emulate John Eales or Ian Jones, you can attempt to emulate Kurtley Beale or Todd Carney - but in general terms you will be judged on how consistently - and honestly - you present your character (and your human frailties).

Gaining an impression of someone IS a judgment- it may not be permanent, but a judgment, it is. He may be more high profile than you or I - but he is re-imbursed accordingly.

- Every day, you and I and most of us are judged according to how we work, how we speak, and how we present ourselves. This is not 'turning on someone'. It is natural enough to grow tired of someone's behavior - if that behavior is tiresome.

Contrast that with the public lynching of Stephanie Rice over her innocuous use of a (common-enough term), a few years ago. Jaguar really did 'turn on her' - and gave in to politically correct thuggery. There is not much larrikin left in the Australian character, thanks to our odious media.

Its not 'recent' with JOC (James O'Connor) - I remember stories coming out of the Force, and back from Autumn Tours a few seasons ago - and it became more public when he failed to front at the team launch for the last RWC.

I can remember when he played that tremendous game in Hong Kong a few years ago, where there was much talk about "nice skills, shame about the bloke".

While I don't disagree with the general point you have made, the reaction by the public/media/organisation can only be charachterised as a fairly about turn.

If we had won the last test I bet there wouldn't be all and sundry lined up around the corner to put the slipper into him. Instead of every one nodding in agreement to the Rebels move, there would be at least a token defence and bit of rib nudging over the wisdom of a team struggling, releasing a bloke who had just hepled us win a BIL tour. Instead the Rebels picked a fairly damning time make their announcement and the media has reported breathlessly on all his perceived faults, including going out for drinks after the 3rd test but failing to mention half of the team was there as well.

I'm not defending JOC (James O'Connor), I think he is a tool and is getting a bit of summary justice for a history of disrespecting the game that treats him so well. But I certainly think the vitriol is significantly more pronounced due to us losing the BIL series.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

While I don't disagree with the general point you have made, the reaction by the public/media/organisation can only be charachterised as a fairly about turn.

If we had won the last test I bet there wouldn't be all and sundry lined up around the corner to put the slipper into him. Instead of every one nodding in agreement to the Rebels move, there would be at least a token defence and bit of rib nudging over the wisdom of a team struggling, releasing a bloke who had just hepled us win a BIL tour. Instead the Rebels picked a fairly damning time make their announcement and the media has reported breathlessly on all his perceived faults, including going out for drinks after the 3rd test but failing to mention half of the team was there as well.

I'm not defending JOC (James O'Connor), I think he is a tool and is getting a bit of summary justice for a history of disrespecting the game that treats him so well. But I certainly think the vitriol is significantly more pronounced due to us losing the BIL series.

I think its more pronounced because he did not perform to any great heights in all 3 tests... If Kurtley had booted that last goal - (or several others) - in the first test, then I don't think a 2-1 win to the Wobbs would have made JOCs performances look any more average than they were...

Just because the media is having hot flushes, doesn't mean the spectators cannot form their own opinions... He was slated to be leaving for more money before the Series - to the Tahs or possibly elsewhere. There was not much indication of commitment or loyalty about the whole episode.

 

[nugget]

Has JOC (James O'Connor) become the new QC (Quade Cooper)?

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

i think tex has it right
the absolute lack of any endorsement of him as a team "man" from anyone (even Dingo) from within rugby fraternity, is for me the most telling comment. from all accounts he trains hard, does his off field endorsements (perhaps apparently when it suits him), and we can all see his enormous rugby talent; but not one player, administrator, or commentator has given him visible support and the only province apparently after him, has already jettisoned him once and is placing significant proviso's on his return. they can't all be wrong in their assessment can they?[/quote

Your assessment seems to be correct - apparently. What I would like to understand, for my own selfish content - is Why? What is it about this fella that seems to be so... dare I say it... 'toxic' in the team environment... easy to speculate - I was just curious to know if anyone has actually spelt it out...

Once you have talent and dedication, its no small achievement to piss people off to this degree. I don't know any players from the Rebs, but they don't strike me as an overly difficult bunch of blokes to get along with.

 

[FiveStarStu]

is anyone here close enough to the Force or Rebels squads to clarify what is really the issue with this bloke?

I've spoken to enough of the playing group and support staff of the Rebels to determine that James is a bad influence on others and on team culture.

In short, many of the 'incidents' surrounding the Rebels this year can be traced back to him and his influence in some way.

 

[It is what it is]

It seems to be 100% an attitude problem with JOC (James O'Connor).
He is blessed with god given skills, and no one has ever questioned his courage.
There are more questions than answers at this time.
Does he understand the difference between confidence and arrogance?
Will he become one of our greatest unrealised talents?
Who if anyone does he respect, listen to and take advice from?
Has his self centred behaviour changed from his teenage years or worsened?
Does he realise he's at the crossroads of his career, or is it all just one big game to him?
I wonder what his response would be if you asked JOC (James O'Connor) - "What is the one thing you will do differently going forward?
Thoughts?

 

[swingpass]

HW&C i dont really know anymore than i have pieced together from reading G&G, the newspapers, watching TV and my experience of life.

it would seem that he just doesn't fit in with a team environment because i suspect he sees himself as a "special case", a leader, the best player, the star (wants to be the playmker 5/8, captain, goal kicker, hero of the "clutch" moments, spokesperson etc) because he has always been the "best" growing up, unchallenged "boss" of the group. but, now as an adult, amongst peers, he hasn't grown up enough to realise that its not all about him. he may well be a "Know it all" and he may not have learnt the art of just shutting up and not telling everyone how to do it. (i think very much like Danny Cipriani in this regard, remember DC was knocked unconscious at a Wasps training session by Josh Lewsey, because he just wouldn't shut the fuck up).

who really knows, but obviously at both the rebels and by all accounts within the wallabies he has few mates and he sees himself outside the confines of the group because he is "special" and the rules don't apply to him.

as i have said above i really hope he can change because he is gifted athlete, just not a wanted one at the moment.

 

[qwerty51]

I've spoken to enough of the playing group and support staff of the Rebels to determine that James is a bad influence on others and on team culture.

In short, many of the 'incidents' surrounding the Rebels this year can be traced back to him and his influence in some way.

Sorry can you be more specific, we understand JOC (James O'Connor) is the root of many problems/issues. What exactly is he doing?

 

[Tex]

How do you quantify arrogance and bad attitude without coming across as a biased snob?

It's a litany of little things - ticks, language, body language, social media profile, past behaviour, associates, quotes.

It might not be fair to build a frankenstein's monster out of all the negative things, because i'm sure he gives a lot of time and energy to charities and fans etc.

Anyway i'll leave you with a gem of a quote from an article published early this year in the Herald Sun.

O'Connor said the players didn't mind showing off their physiques.
"You don't hang a Picasso in the basement," he said, laughing.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national-news/victoria/rebels-put-their-mind-and-body-to-it/story-fndo4cq1-1226516893633#ixzz2Yk3FulLG