Ewen McKenzie Resignation

[tragic]

I think it would be appropriate if the "no innuendo and slander" rule that has been thoroughly -- and rightly -- applied to Patston and McKenzie be applied to the players as well. Beyond a whole lot of utter speculation, much of what I've been reading here, particularly about AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Hooper, seems to violate the standard being applied elsewhere. Some of it might have some basis in fact, a lot of it is unwarranted character assassination, but very little of it is based on anything for which there is evidence.

As Braveheart points out above, very little is actually known. There might be another shoe to drop, or there might not. We just don't know. Until we do, we should stop insulting any of the parties involved or accusing them of the kind of crap that's been going on for the last 35 pages.

As the most capped wallaby and the captain, the pair should have responded better to the incident. Their failure to condemn the inappropriate nature of the whatsapp message from the very beginning, regardless of their personal friendships or state allegiances is a damning indictment on their leadership ability. It reeks of putting themselves and their mates above the proud history of the game and the gentleman who have played it.
This is fact, and comment/ criticism is justified.
As you say, the rest is mere speculation.

 

[Parse]

I reckon they should appoint Richard Graham as coach.

Excellent choice!

 

[No4918]

Lot's of reports today suggesting that if Cheika is selected it could save Beale's career. It can't possibly happen can it?

 

[Parse]

And Phil Waugh should keep his fucking mouth shut too.

If Kurtley Beale stays after this, unless he somehow manages to prove he didn't do anything, the ARU is weak as fucking piss.

I assume you saw that Phil Waugh thing on Fox news as well - to me his body language was like he was rubbing his hands with glee that they got rid of Link. I was unimpressed with every sentence that came out of Waugh's mouth.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Show's that Cheika's not the man for the job if it does.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I assume you saw that Phil Waugh thing on Fox news as well - to me his body language was like he was rubbing his hands with glee that they got rid of Link. I was unimpressed with every sentence that came out of Waugh's mouth.

Anybody who comes out defending Beale as if he has been harshly treated destroys their own credibility as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TahDan]

Lot's of reports today suggesting that if Cheika is selected it could save Beale's career. It can't possibly happen can it?

It shouldn't. I love Cheika and am grateful to Beale for some stellar performances for the Tahs this year, but some sort of punishment needs to be handed down to him for this.

Just on the management saga - did anyone else see this in the SMH

Six months later, after the Wallabies' clean-sweep of France, three more support staff – analyst Andrew Sullivan, physiotherapist Andrew Ryan and logistics manager Matt Sheppard – were all told they were no longer required.

They were replaced, but by people in different roles and less background. Funny that there was a massive logistics breakdown with the team during the RC. Again though, this goes to my problem with blind cost-cutting. There's a need to manage cost, but you don't undermine your flagship brand in the process . . .

 

[maxdacat]

Really? Kicking from hand has been discussed ad nauseum here for a reason. Since Mark Gerrard left Australian rugby there has not been a reliable long distance kicker in the Australian game. It goes hand in hand with the stupidity of the "running rugby" myth that is always touted.

You may be on to something....it's been a long time since i've seen an Oz kicker boot it from our 22 to the other 22. I seem to recall Campo and Latham doing it now and again. Maybe the balls have become less aerodynamic

 

[I like to watch]

Show's that Cheika's not the man for the job if it does.

More to the point,it would mean Pulver is not the man for the job if it does.
But it won't happen.

 

[Braveheart81]

As the most capped wallaby and the captain, the pair should have responded better to the incident. Their failure to condemn the inappropriate nature of the whatsapp message from the very beginning, regardless of their personal friendships or state allegiances is a damning indictment on their leadership ability. It reeks of putting themselves and their mates above the proud history of the game and the gentleman who have played it.
This is fact, and comment/ criticism is justified.
As you say, the rest is mere speculation.

I think everyone is in agreement that they both handled the situation clumsily. There was some middle ground where they could have supported their teammate without condoning his actions.

By the same token, they shouldn't cast their teammate out and make bold statements that the behaviour is not tolerated and he'll never play for the Wallabies again.

People are rightfully worried about and speculating that player power is an issue in this situation. By the same token, players deciding who gets to stay and who goes shouldn't happen either.

Everyone has a job and for the captain and one of the vice captains, that doesn't involve deciding on disciplinary matters of players.

 

[Muglair]

The point made by Braveheart is spot on. There are multiple sides and layers to this whole story and many of the root causes go back years. Anyone that has contributed to these two threads with their opinions will be lucky to be half right.

There are two basic sides in the current drama however. On one side there are very valid and justified warnings about what is permissible to write about let alone speculate on. Tragic's version of events is one commonly held to. However read it closely and there are very few actual facts on which there is universal and public agreement by all protagonists. Even where there has been no published version of dissent there are rumours that some of those "facts" will be contested.

While no one will get sued for defending someone's reputation through sheer speculation as to motives and actual events we should not automatically believe every uncontested opinion on here as then being "fact". The actual denigration and name calling of journalists and players should be a bit more of an embarrassment to some of you.

I hope that everyone's passion eventually spills over when you ALL are watching the next 5 games. Personally its been a revelation to be on these threads and find out there are contributors who are knowledgeable and sage observers, as opposed to my assumption on other threads that they were in fact morons who could not understand my point of view.

Lets not forget we are all Wallaby fans and as much as they may irk us from time to time do you really want the Kiwis Boks and Poms to keep beating us?

On the other hand however I must also say this issue has been one of the most divisive I can recall. Someone at the ARU is going to have to do some serious thinking about what the likely cost of 100% disclosure is likely to be. If there is an attempt to skirt the issues there is a real likelihood that the long term cost of disaffection will far exceed any other claim. Anyone care to wager that the ARU will manage the fallout over the next couple of weeks without alienating everyone.

Pulver was weak in my opinion when he rushed out the Beale text story. There are a whole bunch of reasons why it might have been a good idea. Unless there is a real good story to be told in the end I think he should have sucked up the pressure and kept some control over events. As opposed to no control.

 

[Muglair]

Correction Richo, fast bearing down on 150 pages

 

[Parse]

I don't think Cheika will take the job, I think he is smarter then that. he doesn't like being told how to run the team by the administration and unfortunately that's what the ARU do. think about it, even with Pulver and Co saying they let Link run the entire show do you really believe that? How many test matches did we see players suddenly picked in the 23 from out of nowhere just because they were a favourite in that city eg: Skeleton in the Sydney test against France, Cooper last weekend in Brisbane. Even the selection of Beale at 10 could maybe be attributed to the ARU's wishes rather then the coach. IMO Link had little control over the team members and this most probably ended up playing a big part in his decision.

 

[maxdacat]

Whilst It is an unfortunate end for a coach, and the whole episode reflects poorly on many people, McKenzie is not without fault in his downfall. So please don't paint it in simplistic terms, glossing over other short comings as some kind of Waratahs conspiracy.

Indeed the phrase "multi-faceted sh*t sandwich" comes to mind

 

[maxdacat]

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8757395

This old article from Dublingate shows the roots of the vendetta which has now been executed.

Wow....good to reflect....I don't think could say his heart wasn't in the right place:


"They've been given the privilege of being a Wallaby," said coach McKenzie from the Wallabies tour camp in Edinburgh.
"And with that becomes a responsibility.
"This business is about making sacrifices. It's not about going on a Contiki tour of countries.
"This is not a pub trip."

 

[RugbyReg]

Two questions:

1) Would Pulver, given recent comments, opt against giving his new coach the freedom to appoint his own staff?

2) Would Chieka take the job if he couldn't appoint his own staff?

 

[It is what it is]

Two questions:

1) Would Pulver, given recent comments, opt against giving his new coach the freedom to appoint his own staff?

2) Would Chieka take the job if he couldn't appoint his own staff?

There could be a 3rd question RR;
3) Will the new coach accept that the ARU simply cannot afford for them to bring in their own people?

 

[maxdacat]

Would I be at least right in thinking that the amount of Twittering from inside the team, throughout this incident has actually gone down over the last year? I think Drew Mitchell (ex-wallaby) may have stuck his social media oar in but most players were actually talking to live humans on the ancient medium of television. Not that this was exactly helpful.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't think Cheika will take the job, I think he is smarter then that. he doesn't like being told how to run the team by the administration and unfortunately that's what the ARU do. think about it, even with Pulver and Co saying they let Link run the entire show do you really believe that? How many test matches did we see players suddenly picked in the 23 from out of nowhere just because they were a favourite in that city eg: Skeleton in the Sydney test against France, Cooper last weekend in Brisbane. Even the selection of Beale at 10 could maybe be attributed to the ARU's wishes rather then the coach. IMO Link had little control over the team members and this most probably ended up playing a big part in his decision.

Surely this is just as much speculative bullshit as everything else.

Yes, Skelton and Jones were picked to play their home tests during the June series. If you're selecting a group of players and planning to give them all a crack during the series, why wouldn't you pick them for their home test? McKenzie picked three uncapped locks for that series and they all got a run.

Reading something into Cooper being picked for the Brisbane test seems ridiculous. Everyone has been waiting for him to regain his fitness to rejoin the Wallabies. The pathway back into the 23 was made smoother by Beale removing himself from contention. Cooper was then the obvious reserve flyhalf regardless of where the match was played.

 

[Muglair]

To my point Tragic. It is highly unlikely that anyone in this thread has any idea what any senior players have said to Beale in person about his texts. Someone has speculated that the only reason Beale started sending apologetic texts was because other players had pointed out to him the error of his ways. This may have happened, it may not. They might have said oops you had better cover your arse, they might not. They might have told him he was a complete fuckwit and a thoughtless stupid arsehole for sending them, they might not have.

They may then have decided it was inappropriate to come out in public and condemn him before the ARU was through with its due process. Good judgement in that case.

Displaying some leadership too in the face of some pretty thoughtless and idiotic criticism.