Ewen McKenzie Resignation

[Strewthcobber]

There could be a 3rd question RR;
3) Will the new coach accept that the ARU simply cannot afford for them to bring in their own people?

And another given that the coach has to operate under the financial constraints given to him
4) Will the budget for support staff remain as it currently is (ie no money for a team manager)?

 

[Strewthcobber]

Would I be at least right in thinking that the amount of Twittering from inside the team, throughout this incident has actually gone down over the last year? I think Drew Mitchell (ex-wallaby) may have stuck his social media oar in but most players were actually talking to live humans on the ancient medium of television. Not that this was exactly helpful.

They've got a bit smarter and are using private groups on WhatsApp instead

 

[TahDan]

I don't often read the Australian, or Murdoch press in general, but Brett Harris has a pretty fair piece on this I reckon today titled: "ARU boss Bill Pulver off target when he shoots the messenger". He basically attacks Pulver for criticising the media, making the point that every set of questions that have come out, have been in response to conflicts or unusual activities occurring within the camp.

I know a lot of people here are pretty pissed with the media for all the innuendo and the "character assassination" of people like Patston and McKenzie, and whilst I agree some of the rumours were over the top, Harris is right that the source for all this was from with the Wallabies setup.

No smoke no fire, as they say, and whilst the smoke may have blown in the direction of a few red herrings, there was most definitely a fire at the centre of it.

 

[Pfitzy]

I don't often read the Australian, or Murdoch press in general, but Brett Harris has a pretty fair piece on this I reckon today titled: "ARU boss Bill Pulver off target when he shoots the messenger". He basically attacks Pulver for criticising the media, making the point that every set of questions that have come out, have been in response to conflicts or unusual activities occurring within the camp.

I know a lot of people here are pretty pissed with the media for all the innuendo and the "character assassination" of people like Patston and McKenzie, and whilst I agree some of the rumours were over the top, Harris is right that the source for all this was from with the Wallabies setup.

No smoke no fire, as they say, and whilst the smoke may have blown in the direction of a few red herrings, there was most definitely a fire at the centre of it.

Fuck.

Classic, unmitigated Growdenism.

"Oh we are just reporting what we're TOLD!" say the journos.

How about checking a few actual fucking facts before printing bullshit and rumour?

Never mind who it destroys.

They'll all be looking for jobs if they fuck rugby hard enough, the idiots.

 

[Train Without a Station]

You mean these unnamed sources?

EDIT: Beat me to it Pfitzy.

If you read Growden's articles you'll see there's been scathing criticism commented in each by somebody. You're Welcome.

 

[Muglair]

Sorry about my volume of words this morning, I just gave up too much of a start to you guys. Must go and do some work.

here is Spiro's latest contribution which covers a lot of key issues I think. From my standpoint anyway


SPIRO: Anatomy of the ARU-Beale crisis 2: Michael Cheika next Wallabies coach
Posted: 19 Oct 2014 12:26 PM PDT

Article link: SPIRO: Anatomy of the ARU-Beale crisis 2: Michael Cheika next Wallabies coach. Written by Spiro Zavos, on The Roar - Your Sports Opinion

EDITED
****No posting entire articles - the link is fine thanks.****

 

[I like to watch]

Fuck.

Classic, unmitigated Growdenism.

"Oh we are just reporting what we're TOLD!" say the journos.

How about checking a few actual fucking facts before printing bullshit and rumour?

Never mind who it destroys.

They'll all be looking for jobs if they fuck rugby hard enough, the idiots.

I disagree, this article is nothing like a Growden piece, I thought it was a good summation.
Pulver won't enjoy it though.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...ts-the-messenger/story-e6frg7vo-1227095507004

 

[Train Without a Station]

Muglair what's your point? Spiro just dredges up the same crap that the SMH walked away from.

 

[tragic]

To my point Tragic. It is highly unlikely that anyone in this thread has any idea what any senior players have said to Beale in person about his texts. Someone has speculated that the only reason Beale started sending apologetic texts was because other players had pointed out to him the error of his ways. This may have happened, it may not. They might have said oops you had better cover your arse, they might not. They might have told him he was a complete fuckwit and a thoughtless stupid arsehole for sending them, they might not have.

They may then have decided it was inappropriate to come out in public and condemn him before the ARU was through with its due process. Good judgement in that case.

Displaying some leadership too in the face of some pretty thoughtless and idiotic criticism.

What they have said behind closed doors should remain there.
The content of the whatsapp message has not been disputed, is now in the public forum, and is widely agreed to be grossly inappropriate. The wallabies need to protect the image of the game and publicly reject that sort of message.
Its what sets us apart from those who think its funny to piss in their own mouth or have their dog suck their knob.
No-one is saying they should condemn Beale personally in public without a trial, but they should have clearly stated the content of that message was not acceptable within the culture of the wallabies. Their initial silence on the message content is a damning indictment on their leadership.
Whoever takes over the coaching role should immediately place a media ban on players until this shower of shit becomes a river of gold.

 

[TahDan]

Fuck.

Classic, unmitigated Growdenism.

"Oh we are just reporting what we're TOLD!" say the journos.

How about checking a few actual fucking facts before printing bullshit and rumour?

Never mind who it destroys.

They'll all be looking for jobs if they fuck rugby hard enough, the idiots.

I think Harris sums it up pretty well in the article when he says "shooting the messenger was a psychological way of combating a feeling of powerlessness."

You can be as angry as you like about the fallout, but this stuff hasn't happened in a vacuum now has it?

For the record, I think it's a travesty that Link has been lost, but I also think getting the pitchforks out and putting all the blame on the papers is akin to closing your eyes in the hope an on-coming tsunami will just magically disappear.

The ARU rightly gave the media access to the team, but they themselves didn't seem to think it worth their time to do a little oversight of the management and set-up. So it's a bit rich all this hand-ringing in my view...

If you want to be pissed at someone, be pissed at Pulver I reckon... some of the stuff that has come out about the way the team has been managed over the past year is nothing short of atrocious and Pulver is right when he says he should have done more work on oversight.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I hope he's got a sharp axe and uses it liberally to pull this player group into line, or do what the ABs did in the 80s or 90s when the senior ABs did a rebel tour of SA. None played again. I think the media called the new AB team the baby blacks as they were all new faces.

Indeed the media did. In a way, that rebel tour probably helped propel New Zealand in the end. The impact it has had on the All Blacks cannot really be quantified. The All Blacks' teams during that era could have looked completely different were it not for that tour.

Not entirely true. The "Cavaliers" were stood down for two games.
Of the 31 in the Cavalier touring squad, 14 played for NZ after the 2 game stand down period expired.
Several of the 31 tourists were at the end of their time with NZ and were probably about to be replaced anyway, and another couple of cavaliers were not really first choice players for NZ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Cavaliers

Some of the Cavaliers have gone on to make significant contributions to rugby in a either coaching or administration: Robbie Deans, Kieran Crowley, Wayne Smith, Jock Hobbs, Colin Meads, Andy Dalton, Buck Shelford, Grant Fox, and Murry Mexted.

The "Baby Blacks" played 2 games:
V France - Won 18-9 (in NZ)
V Australia - Lost 12-13 (in NZ)

The "Cavaliers" were then integrated back into the NZ team and the results for the rest of 1986 were:
v Australia - Won 13-12 (in NZ)
v Australia - Lost 9 - 22 (in NZ)
v France - Won 19 - 7 (in France)
v France - Lost 3 - 16 (in France. The Battle of Nantes where Buck Shelford had some impromptu surgery performed on his family jewels)

The following year they went on to win the inaugural RWC with a mix of Cavaliers and Baby Blacks.

Could history repeat itself with the Men in Gold?

One parallel missing is that they didn't change coaches one year out from the RWC. Lochore was installed as coach in 1985 and took the team to RWC 87, but there was drama in the background with his assistant coaches Alex Wyllie (canterbury) and John Hart (auckland) who were bitter rivals and were supported by pretty petty partisan provincial parochialism. Sound familiar?

 

[Train Without a Station]

I think Harris sums it up pretty well in the article when he says "shooting the messenger was a psychological way of combating a feeling of powerlessness."

You can be as angry as you like about the fallout, but this stuff hasn't happened in a vacuum now has it?

For the record, I think it's a travesty that Link has been lost, but I also think getting the pitchforks out and putting all the blame on the papers is akin to closing your eyes in the hope an on-coming tsunami will just magically disappear.

The ARU rightly gave the media access to the team, but they themselves didn't seem to think it worth their time to do a little oversight of the management and set-up. So it's a bit rich all this hand-ringing in my view.

If you want to be pissed at someone, be pissed at Pulver I reckon. some of the stuff that has come out about the way the team has been managed over the past year is nothing short of atrocious and Pulver is right when he says he should have done more work on oversight.

How do you know these are the actual views of the team? The players must feel pretty strongly about them considering NOT A SINGLE FUCKING ONE is willing to put their name to these alleged quotes. That's even if they have come from players.

 

[Braveheart81]

Two questions:

1) Would Pulver, given recent comments, opt against giving his new coach the freedom to appoint his own staff?

2) Would Chieka take the job if he couldn't appoint his own staff?

This obviously comes with the caveat that some decisions may be made out of financial necessity rather than what is optimal but it seems like Pulver will need to reconsider point one substantially.

It would seem to me that the coach should be responsible for hiring and firing their assistant coaches and picking their team but that should be it.

The management side of the team should be dealt with by someone other than the coach though. There should certainly be consultation regarding what the coach wants and discussion around what is believed to be the optimal setup but at the end of the day, the key appointments should be made by the CEO.

Putting one person in charge of too many things makes it difficult for them to complete their core job which was to coach the team. It also unecessarily puts them in the middle of many potential issues that they ordinarily would be external to.

Deans wasn't given enough control over his assistants and seemingly, rather than give Link ultimate discretion over his, he was instead given discretion over roles relating to management. Whether or not Link would have picked them same blokes or others, he ultimately inherited his assistant coaches and didn't have the chance to appoint his own.

 

[Richo]

As the most capped wallaby and the captain, the pair should have responded better to the incident. Their failure to condemn the inappropriate nature of the whatsapp message from the very beginning, regardless of their personal friendships or state allegiances is a damning indictment on their leadership ability. It reeks of putting themselves and their mates above the proud history of the game and the gentleman who have played it.
This is fact, and comment/ criticism is justified.
As you say, the rest is mere speculation.

Of course they should have responded better. But many have accused them of a palace plot to overthrow the coach, called them disloyal and all sorts of things with only those comments to go off. I've read most of what's been published on this saga and I've yet to see anything that actually proves that, just like I've yet to read anything that proves other speculation about various relationships.

 

[TahDan]

How do you know these are the actual views of the team? The players must feel pretty strongly about them considering NOT A SINGLE FUCKING ONE is willing to put their name to these alleged quotes. That's even if they have come from players.

Mate, I don't know how they are, but it's pretty obvious to me that if I had a reporter in my team and I was so unhappy about the set-up that I wanted to tell said reporter, I sure as hell wouldn't be putting my name to such destabilising criticisms because I know it'd cost me big time. Showing public support is easy, but coming out and publically bagging your boss? Well Quade tried that if you remember.

But what are you suggesting? That it's all a media conspiracy and that it's all made up? That everything in camp wallaby and at St Leonards is just fine? It's clearly bloody not - if the place had even half decent management a controversy of this nature would have gone no where other than costing one Wallaby his spot.

 

[Scrubber2050]

IMO Cheika is the best man for the job NOW.

If Cheika not available for EOYT then an Interim EOYT Coach to be appointed and Cheika thereafter.

He could still have a role with the Tahs for vitually the whole of the Super season, prior to the Wallaby position.

To those who think a NSW conspiracy theroy: maybe, maybe not. One thing I'm certain of is that Cheika, if appointed, will pick the best team (in his opinion) because a coach lives or dies by the team's performance.

There would be some fallout IMHO. - Horwill and White would be gone and maybe Alexander.

 

[Train Without a Station]

It's partially a media conspiracy. And that's one of the biggest issues with the place. They have pushed their side of the agenda hard, without thought for any actual evidence to support their smear claims.

The ARU has it's issues. The biggest is financial limitations.

From the facts shown the only questionable decision in the handling of the Beale matter is the mercy they have shown in agreeing to an extension to the date of the hearing.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Special Announcement:
Wallabies
Kurtley Beale appointed

1. Captain Coach
2. Head of Integrity Unit

and Phil Mooney "looking" at possible Tahs coaching position

 

[maxdacat]

They've got a bit smarter and are using private groups on WhatsApp instead

What could possibly go wrong!

 

[TahDan]

It's partially a media conspiracy. And that's one of the biggest issues with the place. They have pushed their side of the agenda hard, without thought for any actual evidence to support their smear claims.

The ARU has it's issues. The biggest is financial limitations.

From the facts shown the only questionable decision in the handling of the Beale matter is the mercy they have shown in agreeing to an extension to the date of the hearing.

The trouble I have with this sort of talk is I don't know what agenda you are talking about. Is it a NSW press agenda to get rid of Link? If so, why were they so critical of the NSWRU when they dumped him in '08? And why are people in papers like the Australian also taking part in it all?

Journalists have been sensationalising since papers have existed, but to say there's a conspiracy is taking it a bit far I reckon.

But let's try and look on the bright side - at least all this shit happened 11 months out from the RWC and not a week into it.