Ewen McKenzie Resignation

[vidiot]

Isaac Moses has to be a front runner candidate.

He seems to have a great rapport with the media and more influence over a core group of wallabies than any other candidate.

He can bring a great culture and maybe when the going gets tough he can threaten to take them all to league.

 

[Train Without a Station]

McKenzie has been unafraid to rattle cages in a tumultuous first three months in the job

From http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8757395 in November last year.

Please tell me how Cheika/White/Whoever else "won't cop any shit". Oh please do.

 

[Train Without a Station]

And Phil Waugh should keep his fucking mouth shut too.

If Kurtley Beale stays after this, unless he somehow manages to prove he didn't do anything, the ARU is weak as fucking piss.

 

[Muglair]

I thought Hooper looked intent decisive and determined.

My tip is that McKenzie is finished and the players, despite the ridiculous statements on this thread are going to pull it in tight. Can't wait to see what the game plan and execution is on Saturday. I am now a lot more optimistic than the last week or so.

People need to get over what players are paid. They have a market value, no more than that. Otherwise they play for themselves, their families, their teammates and the state/country they represent but probably in various orders from man to man and from time to time. Also it seems only from time to time for their coach.

Interim coach a la Connolly. He and Dwyer are too old and probably a bit out of touch. Maybe McQueen is burned form the Rebels experience or may be considered a bit out of touch by the playing group. Jake White would be my choice; sharpen up the forwards accuracy but hopefully will be told they he needs to let the backs run around a bit. After the RWC the ARU (having given themselves a few solid uppercuts) should have learned their lesson and have some decent succession planning in place for coaches.

I wrote this last Monday and sort of repeated this a bit earlier on this thread in response to the continuing bullshit about the lack of character and leadership in the Wallaby playing group. (Note I was sort of looking at the coaching as being a two horse White Cheika race and avoiding the Cheika poison chalice possibility.I now think there are a lot of different options)

What is people's problem with Hooper? A bunch of spectators think he isn't a leader. A bunch of players who play with him seem to think otherwise. My reading from some distance says otherwise. Apparently the most telling evidence is that he told a player to fuck off.

Lets review that. Apparently Phipps got right up Messam's nose. Again some spectators have a problem with the fact that Phipps irritates people but personally I like the fact that the smallest player in the Wallabies got in his face. Messam then tries to intimidate Phipps in return and keeps following him around. Joubert should have told him to take a hike but leaves it up to Hooper who Joubert then chips.

Quite possibly Eales never told anyone to fuck off when he was captain. Reminds me of the stories about John Thornett, a thorough gentleman of a captain who never hit anyone. Of course there was a generally accepted theory as to why this was the case. Those of you who do not know why need to go and look it up. Rugby is a simple game played for over a 100 years and there is nothing new.

The relevance of this? When the big aggressive Kiwi shirt fronts our smallest player our smallest forward then has to step in. We are now missing a certain type of player in our game and if you want to watch them you need to tune in to a NZ/SA/England game or the NRL. Australia needs to take a leaf out of the NZ book and all provinces start to play a game that plays to our strengths.

A different game plan for different games and different teams was always a bunch of complete hooey. My criticism of the media is that they bought that one for so long.

 

[I like to watch]

From http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8757395 in November last year.

Please tell me how Cheika/White/Whoever else "won't cop any shit". Oh please do.

I thought that was very poorly handled by McKenzie,and probably set the tone during his tenure.
I think he had 100% backing to change the culture in the squad.
However,a better manager would have involved the playing group in setting the boundaries,and the penalty for breaching those agreed behaviours.
But instead,he disciplined 1/2 his squad for the breach of a previously not discussed "vibe".

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Can't blame a bloke for his Mums' phone calls - but I totally agree with the second-half of your post. Link is gone because the ARU won't support him in cleaning-out the dead-wood.

Those getting a good laugh out of Two-Dads Mum should spend some time on the Schoolboy Rugby forum.

There are numerous posters dwelling there that would make Two-Dads Mum look like a dispassionate observer.

Helicopter parenting behaviour is only going to get worse as the current crop of kiddies move into adulthood.

 

[Braveheart81]

And the tripe continues.
There is no waratahs conspiracy, just a utter numpty who happens to be a waratah, and a couple of provincial teammates who think its ok to undermine the coach and the organisation that pays their salary in a public forum. That behaviour is unacceptable regardless of state allegiances.
And why is it so hard to believe that the coach was not informed. I'm sure Ms Patson would have been aware there would have been repercussions if she informed coaching/ management staff about the content of beales message, and those repercussions would have potentially affected not only Beales playing future, but also her relationships with other members of the team (beales amigos). The texts released confirmed she told beale she would not inform management unless there were further incidents, and Beales reply thanked her for that approach. So the facts defy your presumptions.
And no disciplinary action can be taken if those responsible for said action are not aware of the incident.
When there was a further incident, management were informed, as per Patsons previous warning, and the investigation that should have occurred 4 months prior was commenced.
In trying to give Beale some leeway, Patson inadvertently contributed to her own, and Mckenzies demise.
She should have hung the bastard out to dry in the first place.

On what basis is your version of events more likely to be correct than someone else's?

We all know that Beale sent grossly inappropriate whatsapp messages that Patston was either shown or inadvertently sent back in June.

We know that Patston and now McKenzie have resigned their positions.

Pretty much every other aspect of this involves multiple versions of events and contridictions between all the major parties involved regarding when and who knew what.

There is close to universal agreement that Beale's behaviour was completely inappropriate and he should be fired.

Accepting that this entire course of events that has led to unprecedented fallout in Australian Rugby started and ended with Beale's messages seems incredibly naive to me. It seems incredibly unlikely that McKenzie's Wallaby coaching career has been destroyed purely by the poor behaviour of one player and a hostile response from sections of the media afterwards.

There is enough rumour, innuendo and differing versions of events floating around that it is possible to argue quite convincingly that a certain scenario was what actually happened. That should also provide an indication that it's just as likely that the version of events you believe isn't actually true.

 

[Pubes]

I predicted that McKenzie would resign a week ago, it was the only course open to a man with any integrity. It speaks volumes for the man. Beale was just the class clown who got caught doing what others were thinking. Quade Cooper was right, years ago, when he said that the culture of the Wallabies playing group is toxic. McKenzie has done nothing wrong, he may not yet realise it, but the reason for his resignation is to benefit the long-term reputation of the Wallabies. When the mothers of little boys playing in the junior ranks of the rugby heartlands of Sydney and Brisbane wake up to read the District Court judge's verdict on Bealegate, they will want to know what the ARU is going to do next. The main problem at the moment with the Wallabies, is a player revolt led by the senior leadership of the playing group. What the players are yet to realise is that, if they get their own way, there will be a widespread fan revolt against the playing group. Which is why the ARU, if they are well advised, will appoint Jake White to the top job. If they appoint Cheikka, the playing group will have got what they wanted, and the exodus of fans will begin. For me, the Wallabies are presently unwatchable. I cannot support this team, and I won't until the appropriate actions have been taken by the ARU. Hooper cannot be Capt., and Ashley-Cooper cannot be vice captain.

 

[Train Without a Station]

New blatant rumor here. You've heart it first!

Replacement coach is appointed and takes the team to the World Cup. The results are underwhelming as expected.

He is replaced with a new coach. Ewen McKenzie!! Boom! First team address, ala Bob Dwyer begins with "Now, as I was saying before I was interrupted..."

You know it makes sense.

 

[TahDan]

I haven't been on here again for a while, but the Herald is massively endorsing Cheika for the top job. Whilst he obviously is a great candidate, can I just reiterate that I think it's a terrible idea for both Cheika and the Wallabies.

We saw what happened last year when McKenzie we thrown in mid-stream and the way the lack of support structures undermined the oversight of the team leading to this massive debacle (and yes, I blame Pulver for not bothering to replace the team manager which was fairly critical in how this all fell apart in my view). So to throw Cheika in now would be simply repeating the same mistake again, and if he's sensible he'll tell the ARU he's not interested until after the RWC.

I say the ARU needs to take a deep fucking breath when thinking about the tour, and if absolutely necessary just elevate one of the support coaches. The season is dead and buried as it is anyway.

 

[tragic]

On what basis is your version of events more likely to be correct than someone else's?

We all know that Beale sent grossly inappropriate whatsapp messages that Patston was either shown or inadvertently sent back in June.

We know that Patston and now McKenzie have resigned their positions.

Pretty much every other aspect of this involves multiple versions of events and contridictions between all the major parties involved regarding when and who knew what.

There is close to universal agreement that Beale's behaviour was completely inappropriate and he should be fired.

Accepting that this entire course of events that has led to unprecedented fallout in Australian Rugby started and ended with Beale's messages seems incredibly naive to me. It seems incredibly unlikely that McKenzie's Wallaby coaching career has been destroyed purely by the poor behaviour of one player and a hostile response from sections of the media afterwards.

There is enough rumour, innuendo and differing versions of events floating around that it is possible to argue quite convincingly that a certain scenario was what actually happened. That should also provide an indication that it's just as likely that the version of events you believe isn't actually true.

Its not my version of events - I don't deal with innuendo.
Its the version of events based on the text messages that have been released, and was posted in response to the "I don't buy that McKenzie didn't know" comments. Its also what Patson, Mckenzie and the ARU have said. Anything else at this stage is mere conjecture.
I'm sure that there is a whole lot more to the story but until more detail is released I am not going to speculate and add to the BS thats already floating around.

 

[I like to watch]

I predicted that McKenzie would resign a week ago, it was the only course open to a man with any integrity. It speaks volumes for the man. Beale was just the class clown who got caught doing what others were thinking. Quade Cooper was right, years ago, when he said that the culture of the Wallabies playing group is toxic. McKenzie has done nothing wrong, he may not yet realise it, but the reason for his resignation is to benefit the long-term reputation of the Wallabies. When the mothers of little boys playing in the junior ranks of the rugby heartlands of Sydney and Brisbane wake up to read the District Court judge's verdict on Bealegate, they will want to know what the ARU is going to do next. The main problem at the moment with the Wallabies, is a player revolt led by the senior leadership of the playing group. What the players are yet to realise is that, if they get their own way, there will be a widespread fan revolt against the playing group. Which is why the ARU, if they are well advised, will appoint Jake White to the top job. If they appoint Cheikka, the playing group will have got what they wanted, and the exodus of fans will begin. For me, the Wallabies are presently unwatchable. I cannot support this team, and I won't until the appropriate actions have been taken by the ARU. Hooper cannot be Capt., and Ashley-Cooper cannot be vice captain.

Funny,
You do realise when Quade was calling the joint toxic,he was in favour of player power toppling the appointed coach?(well one player anyway)
Now you are suggesting that too much player power is a toxic environment.
Which is it?

 

[It is what it is]

I thought that was very poorly handled by McKenzie,and probably set the tone during his tenure.
I think he had 100% backing to change the culture in the squad.
However,a better manager would have involved the playing group in setting the boundaries,and the penalty for breaching those agreed behaviours.
But instead,he disciplined 1/2 his squad for the breach of a previously not discussed "vibe".

McKenzie's attempt to introduce some discipline on last year's end of season tour was well intended but executed atrociously.
The facts are that there were no rules/guidelines/limits in place for alcohol intake or time curfews on that tour before he acted.
He violated employment terms by issuing penalties that could have been overturned in a heartbeat if challenged. The issue stopping any challenge was that the court of public opinion simply saw a bunch of glorified pampered athletes abusing the privilege of representing their country, and a challenge wouldn't have gone down well.
The players might have copped it then, but they didn't forget.
Some of the players had little to drink and missed the "after the offence curfew" by 10 minutes.
Alcohol related offences also require proof via a breathalyser or similar.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The term "Senior Leadership" is being used by many in this dialogue.

The two names most frequently used in this debate as being senior leaders are Hooper and Ashley-Cooper. It follows conventional logic that a 100 test veteran is part of a teams "Senior Leadership", and similarly a little strange that the youngest in the squad is seen as part of that group.

Would someone please define who is in the Senior Leadership Group?

 

[Richo]

I think it would be appropriate if the "no innuendo and slander" rule that has been thoroughly -- and rightly -- applied to Patston and McKenzie be applied to the players as well. Beyond a whole lot of utter speculation, much of what I've been reading here, particularly about AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Hooper, seems to violate the standard being applied elsewhere. Some of it might have some basis in fact, a lot of it is unwarranted character assassination, but very little of it is based on anything for which there is evidence.

As Braveheart points out above, very little is actually known. There might be another shoe to drop, or there might not. We just don't know. Until we do, we should stop insulting any of the parties involved or accusing them of the kind of crap that's been going on for the last 35 pages.

EDIT: I'm not having a good at the mods. You guys are doing a fine job. Everybody else needs to up their game, I think.

 

[rugbyskier]

Nick Farr-Jones had a chat with Ben Fordham on Channel 9 this morning. It was very interesting in what he didn't say - no mention of the players' actions or Kurtley Beale as a factor in McKenzie's resignation. Apparently McKenzie hired the wrong staff and the ARU didn't put him on a tight enough leash.

 

[wamberal]

I am not sure that Cheika is the man for the job. One big factor in his favour, however, is that he has worked outside rugby.

The head coach, whoever he or she is, MUST have a strong business sense and some relevant managerial experience.

Pulver has virtually acknowledged his own shortcomings in this sorry affair, and it is obvious that his direct reports are going to need to have pretty wide skill and experience bases to compensate.

 

[TahDan]

Nick Farr-Jones had a chat with Ben Fordham on Channel 9 this morning. It was very interesting in what he didn't say - no mention of the players' actions or Kurtley Beale as a factor in McKenzie's resignation. Apparently McKenzie hired the wrong staff and the ARU didn't put him on a tight enough leash.

Again, this is where the ARU let the Wallabies down - sure, give Link autonomy and let him hire his supporting staff in so far as anything coaching related goes, but they should have still ensured oversight for the rest of the team's management.

We all know how tough the finances are at the ARU, but Fitzsimmons is right when he says the loss of Bobby Egerton has been keenly felt here, and this business of not replacing leaving staff is beyond stupid. Sure, it saved them a few bucks, but it has cost them far more as it has allowed their key product - the Wallabies - to fall into disarray.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I think that Ewen's decision is not all related to the lastest shit. He was involved in a messy diviroce, kids etc etc. He was not in a good space.

The latest KB (Kurtley Beale) shit including inaccurate media reporting was simply the "straw that broke the camel's back"

Actually feel sorry for the bloke.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I am not sure that Cheika is the man for the job. One big factor in his favour, however, is that he has worked outside rugby.

The head coach, whoever he or she is, MUST have a strong business sense and some relevant managerial experience.

You mean kind of like Link?