England at the Rugby World Cup

[Lee Grant]

Use the Pool match thread for discussion of the England games and this thread for other matters pertaining to the England squad. There will be similar threads for South Africa, NZ, France – and the Wallabies, of course. If folks feel another country deserves another thread, or have a particular interest in that country, they can start one.

The idea is to avoid starting dozens of threads for such subjects as: “What a goose Fred Nerk is” and the like.

There will be some big news items or incidents that deserve individual threads – play it by ear. Don't be miffed though if you start a thread and it is later merged with another one.

 

[daz]

Break a leg, England.

No, that is not a gesture of wishing you good luck. I mean, really, please, break a leg. Or two. Your legs.

 

[Lee Grant]

England beat Wales first up in the trials but lost the return match. Their backs were poor in the 2nd game, though their forwards were strong, as usual.

England got their act together in their third and last trial game. They handed their bogey team, Ireland, their 4th trial loss in a row and in doing so fixed up a weakness: a dysfunctional midfield.

Young Manu Tuilagi, whose brother Alesana terrorised the Wallabies at Homebush for Samoa, will surely be the England 13 with Tindall moving into 12, his natural position. They attacked well together and early in the game Tuilagi ran around Earls to score the first try. But on defence Tindall moved outside of Tuilagi and directed him like a middle linebacker. Watch out for these two.

Wilko wasn't that convincing at flyhalf yet he is being talked about as the likely starter now, ahead of Flood. No. 1 scrummie, Youngs, hasn't played in a trial yet, but LHP Sheridan had a good first hit out.

England gave away a lot of penalties against Ireland, especially at the breakdown, and one hopes that they are stopped using their bodies like logs at the RWC.

Skipper Moody is with the team but, injured in the 1st trial, it's not clear when he will be ready to play. They will need him because otherwise their backrow is ordinary, though diligent.

Froggy Thompson could get precedence over hot head Hartley for the hooking role. What a fine comeback that would be.

 

[Skippy]

Yeah watched all the England games warming up for the WC. I wouldn't right them off but you alluded to their biggest problem.... penalties for breakdown infringements. The WC pool games will define their WC. If they can adjust to some of the SHemisphere referees and embrace the interpretations of the referees in the WC they will be a definite threat. If they can't.... it could be an early exit.
For me however, there are flaws that can be exploited. Thompson's lineout throwing is prone to waywardness. Their backrow lacks balance without as Moody is not a openside flyer who plays on the ball nor a no 6 ball runner - he is somewhere is between and just runs around like a dog with rabies and dives into every ruck often ending up off his feet and on the wrong side. Just a nuisance really... but might find the referees in the WC won't tolerate it. Easter at 8 is a just a lumbering slow old boy but given the rain and wet conditions, NZ might suit him just fine. Courtney Lawes can hit like a train but is prone to mistakes and being rattled easily. Youngs at 9 is classy but a long way of Genia and co as a premier 9 and has a lot of flaws mostly relating to controlling the game and reading the game. Wilko is Wilko and worth 12 points but can sit too deep and fail to bring his backs into the game.
Tuilangi - well he's explosive and strong but prone to being caught out of position. Often rushes up out of the line and comes up empty handed. At 13 he does sometimes struggle to pick up who to take in defence with multiple runners coming at him. And brain snaps... aka Chris Ashton
Wingers and Fullbacks - Cueto/Foden etc are class players but England are poor on the counter attack and this is a crucial area of the game now.
Armitage - Was impressed with his performance in the friendly games. I can see him forcing his way into the side at some stage
Tom Croft - World Class 6.

 

[Till Dyck]

Lee Grant

I thought Wilko played a great game.

 

[redstragic]

That incident in 2003 still haunts me whenever I close my eyes. My wife's family are all the proudest of poms and I hope that we meet them at this cup and can inflict pain on them like we did the Blecks at Suncorp.

 

[dobduff11]

Don't wish to start an argument over nothing but I feel like I'm in a position to put forward my views:

Thompson's lineout throwing is prone to waywardness.

In 2003 yes, this year no, Leeds had the fourth best lineout in the Premiership. Also Hartley usually starts and they had the 6th best lineout. Our lineout isn't a problem!

Easter at 8 is a just a lumbering slow old boy but given the rain and wet conditions, NZ might suit him just fine.

Bit harsh, he's not the most dynamic 8 but he makes a lot of hard yards. Had the fourth most offloads in the premiership this year and scores a surprising amount of tries. I'd rate him over Mcalman.

Courtney Lawes can hit like a train but is prone to mistakes and being rattled easily.

Rattled easily, really? He is possibly the least likely player in the England team to get intimidated physically and I haven't seen him get rattled this year, if anything he rattles others with his huge hits.

Youngs at 9 is classy but a long way of Genia and co as a premier 9 and has a lot of flaws mostly relating to controlling the game and reading the game.

And Co? I would rate him as possibly the premier 9 in Europe over the past two years. Southern Hemisphere wise FDP has lost it a bit, the NZ 9's aren't exactly their best ever, Genia fair enough hes all class. I agree though he can get flustered if his team is on the back foot and sometimes tries too hard to make the telling break. Still he is one of the most exciting 9's in World rugby and has a great break on him.

Tuilagi - well he's explosive and strong but prone to being caught out of position. Often rushes up out of the line and comes up empty handed

He's been caught out about three times this year (not too bad imo, hes 20 and has only recently started playing 13). Tbh he puts in a lot of big hits and his attack makes up for his defence. Plus if he plays with Tindall he will defend at 12 where he is pretty solid.

Wingers and Fullbacks - Cueto/Foden etc are class players but England are poor on the counter attack and this is a crucial area of the game now.

Really again, did you watch the England Aus game in November last year? Cueto made about three breaks from kicks and had a stormer. Granted they aren't Quade or Kurtley but they most certainly aren't poor!

 

[Sully]

Great post Dobduff. You have obviously watch a lot of Rugby up there.

 

[Gagger]

duffy makes some good points. Easter is a white Tongan and is very underrated.

Yes, these fuckers are still our nemesis whether we like it or not.

When you're the force for good, there'll always be the force for evil.

 

[dobduff11]

You have obviously watch a lot of Rugby up there.

Just a little Sully

 

[RedsHappy]

Subject to one (major) concern only, if we play like we did vs ABs Brisbane, we will beat England in the RWC, should this scenario arise.

The thing that moved me into a generally confident place regarding the making of a statement like this was simply that, in our last Test win, we seemed, however tentatively, to have found a cure of sorts for the three of the great diseases (or deficiencies) of Wallaby rugby in the last 8 or so years:

- we competed at the breakdown exceptionally well in all of intensity, aggression, numbers, technical skill and consistency;

- we were able to sustain the above coupled with general game nous, sound discipline and physical application for all of 80;

- we achieved these attributes against a top team that played very well overall for most of 80.

We lose against England when deficiencies 1 and 2 above are routinely in place, as they often have been. Twickers 2010 was in some respects a worse version of Marseilles 2007, we failed to deal with and turn up against England's far more intensive, consistent, skilful forwards.

Now, that major concern I started with. Yes, I've been a broken record about this for 12 months +, but the absolute vulnerability we have today is place kicking (and possibly drop gaols too, outside QC (Quade Cooper) who kicked these well in the S15). Just as he did at Twickers last year, JO'C in 2011's Tests is not yet showing he is anything like reliable enough to deliver an 80%+ success rate in high pressure moments. QC (Quade Cooper) if anything is slightly deteriorating from an 'OK' but far from excellent 2011 S15 success rate (at Brisbane v ABs he reversed his usual kicking outcome profile and missed the later pressure kicks and got the somewhat easier earlier ones...go figure...). KB (Kurtley Beale) is very uneven in 2011, and we don't know if BB will get a big role in the key matches, etc., and we don't know how well his kicking is going in any event. This poor development of our kicking depth, and to have only one really proven drop goal kicker, is a huge issue for us this RWC.

The Wallabies are far from outstanding in all the departments that really matter in WCs. But many crucial departments are now good enough, to demonstrably excellent, in ways they have not been in the past, and when such has cost us dearly.

 

[qwerty51]

The thing that gives me confidence in beating England is our dominant tackle percentage last game. IMO, that is the main reason we lost at Twickers last year (and Pretoria). The backline were not making enough dominant tacklers and the England pack were running with too much space out wide. Credit to Robbie for finally acknowledging this problem and fixing it by getting rid of the stupid 2 playmaker system and putting in strong defensive centres.

 

[Joe Mac]

Agree with Qwerty here. Physicality is the key ingredient to beat the Pom's. If Samo, TPN, Vicks and Horwill are fighting fit we should be in strong contention to do this.

If McCalman, Ma'food, or S'Fainga'a are in the team due to injury; we are screwed...

 

[light]

I really really really really really really hope the Poms don't make it any further than the quarters.

2003 constantly figures in my nightmares as we approach this world cup.

 

[Till Dyck]

I really really really really really really hope the Poms don't make it any further than the quarters.

2003 constantly figures in my nightmares as we approach this world cup.

Australia would be my favourite followed by Ireland. England is okay but they have won it to much at this stage.

 

[Rebel rouser]

What I really want to see is someone give Ashton a sledge about that great hit he copped from Tuilagi. Surely after something like that they can't make a harmonious outside centre - wing combo?!

For those of you that missed it...
[video=youtube;dEhfxXVnvt8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEhfxXVnvt8&feature=related[/video]

Boy I never get sick of watching that!!

 

[Nusadan]

He saw that coming from a mile and just took it...just hope he doesn't get punch drunk later in life...

 

[matty_k]

The English backs coach is saying all you need is two tries to win.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...says-englands-backs-coach-20110905-1jt0q.html

 

[qwerty51]

That's probably right, won't see many knockout games with team scoring more than 3 tries.

 

[Blue]

Holy crap that's a big dude.