Strewthcobber
Andrew Slack (58)
So when and why did it change?
I'm guessing if you looked at 1990 it would be much more like today than this one?
Declining participation and ARU plans for the future
- Thread starter RugbyReg
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I'm guessing if you looked at 1990 it would be much more like today than this one?
JuanBarn
Herbert Moran (7)
In the 90s is when soccer and other sports first seriously came into the GPS winter sports system. Not sure what happened in the public system, but rugby was dying a slow death in the public primary system from the early 80s. This obviously feeds into the secondary system, during the 90s. I blame the slacker 'grunge'.
Strewthcobber
Andrew Slack (58)
I wonder if it's another case of rugby league getting their act together in the 80s with State of Origin blossoming, the NSWRL expansion outside of Sydney and the increased money which started flowing into the game.
Here's the 1990 team for comparison - private schools dominating
1 Nicholas Ghattas St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill NSW
2 Todd Cole Barker College NSW
3 Simon Wilson St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill NSW
4 Salei (Fili) Finau Homebush Boys High School NSW
5 Troy Jacques Waverley College NSW
6 Ben May Cranbrook School NSW
7 Hugh Williams Barker College NSW
8 Stuart Pinkerton The Scots College NSW
9 Travis Hall Townsville Grammar School QLD
10 Craig Polla-Mounter Ipswich Grammar School QLD
11 John Turner Knox Grammar School NSW
12 Matthew Burke St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill NSW
13 Graeme Thompson St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill NSW
14 Peter Jorgensen St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill NSW
15 Richard Graham Marist College, Ashgrove QLD
16 Rodney Moore Carlingford High School NSW
17 Thomas Morrison Canberra College (Stirling College) ACT
18 Micah Tuck Iona College QLD
19 John Isaac St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill NSW
20 Rodney Hayes Hawker College ACT
21 Ryan Craig Nudgee College QLD
22 Haydn Long Brisbane State High School QLD
half
Alan Cameron (40)
I meant to make this post in this thread and somehow [maybe the Hunter Reds] had me post it in another thread.
So sorry for the repeat for those that read it elsewhere I just feel its more apt in this thread.
The old saying monkey see monkey do is very apt to our current position.
Tip [poster on gngr] posted on page 33 in this thread maybe a week ago that rugby was becoming invisible. IMO it was in one sentence a statement of where we are.
SANDDZAR has delivered very few local games for either the media or public to get involved with. Its possible but not plausible that the playing schedule could have been worst.
AFL, NRL have over 200 games and its home and away, soccer about 140 games plus numerous mid-week competitions.
The media coverage for the NRL and AFL if we had talk back, print, cross promotions with their FTA partners is huge.
I have looked on the past two weekends on the News & Fairfax sites and the NCR has not got a mention I could find.
I posted this in another thread but will post again to illustrate my point,
Yesterday "She Who Must be Obeyed" sent me this suggesting she wanted to go or maybe it was an order to go.
The Central Coast Mariners are playing the Wellington Phoenix in a preseason trail match at Knox Grammar. I am also aware that Western Sydney Wanders play some matches at Kings.
Here is the link for the Central coast match.http://www.ccmariners.com.au/articl.ix-at-knox-grammar/1stl1bcu8kegf11pvwiwgjq2vm
I can only imagine what this does to rugby in the school especially when the Knox boys side has made the final 32 in the Bill Turner Cup see above post.
The status Que is changing in the schools.
Kinda makes the whole expand issue a little more urgent if that was possible.
I don’t have any idea how to solve this however for me we desperately need boots on the ground in new areas.
My only offering is its time for unity as we can no longer afford the degree of infighting that is going on.
So sorry for the repeat for those that read it elsewhere I just feel its more apt in this thread.
The old saying monkey see monkey do is very apt to our current position.
Tip [poster on gngr] posted on page 33 in this thread maybe a week ago that rugby was becoming invisible. IMO it was in one sentence a statement of where we are.
SANDDZAR has delivered very few local games for either the media or public to get involved with. Its possible but not plausible that the playing schedule could have been worst.
AFL, NRL have over 200 games and its home and away, soccer about 140 games plus numerous mid-week competitions.
The media coverage for the NRL and AFL if we had talk back, print, cross promotions with their FTA partners is huge.
I have looked on the past two weekends on the News & Fairfax sites and the NCR has not got a mention I could find.
I posted this in another thread but will post again to illustrate my point,
Yesterday "She Who Must be Obeyed" sent me this suggesting she wanted to go or maybe it was an order to go.
The Central Coast Mariners are playing the Wellington Phoenix in a preseason trail match at Knox Grammar. I am also aware that Western Sydney Wanders play some matches at Kings.
Here is the link for the Central coast match.http://www.ccmariners.com.au/articl.ix-at-knox-grammar/1stl1bcu8kegf11pvwiwgjq2vm
I can only imagine what this does to rugby in the school especially when the Knox boys side has made the final 32 in the Bill Turner Cup see above post.
The status Que is changing in the schools.
Kinda makes the whole expand issue a little more urgent if that was possible.
I don’t have any idea how to solve this however for me we desperately need boots on the ground in new areas.
My only offering is its time for unity as we can no longer afford the degree of infighting that is going on.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Probably a few factors at play. Early 1990s saw the gradual decline of junior club begin in earnest and we know that junior club rugby and CHS rugby are linked. At the same time there was also a significant decline in enrolments at state high schools - particularly in more affluent areas. It was also the first time that GPS schools engaged in wholesale scholarshipping - for a centenary in 1993. Extend that to the advent of professionalism in 1995/96 - at which time the governing body took its eyes off the ball in terms of grass roots development and threw money at the professional game. A bit of a perfect storm, for which the game was unprepared.
half
Alan Cameron (40)
^^^^^^^^^^^
My post above, to grow the player base we need to be seen.
What scares me is the sports market is only so big. Available air time is again limited. New sports are now taking up time, Netball, AFL womens, the BB, the women's BB etc are all demanding attention.
The A-League is determined to get a free to air broadcast partner and seem to be willing to take a big reduction in revenue to get there.
We are not represented well in young population areas and as the above posts show our school base is shrinking fast.
Just consider this, Knox by having the Mariners V Wellington Phoenix will no doubt use this in many ways to boast the schools imagine. Barker not to far down the road will be looking and seeing whats happening. It's not inconceivable Barker will soon invite the Mariners. Then consider Kings at Parramatta who I believe play some games at Kings, maybe 3 Kls from Parramatta stadium.
I am told SFC play some games as well at public schools.
This is akin to a Tahs V Reds game at a local school. Yet we seem to see this happening around us and not react.
We need to be far more proactive but alias I can offer few solutions
My post above, to grow the player base we need to be seen.
What scares me is the sports market is only so big. Available air time is again limited. New sports are now taking up time, Netball, AFL womens, the BB, the women's BB etc are all demanding attention.
The A-League is determined to get a free to air broadcast partner and seem to be willing to take a big reduction in revenue to get there.
We are not represented well in young population areas and as the above posts show our school base is shrinking fast.
Just consider this, Knox by having the Mariners V Wellington Phoenix will no doubt use this in many ways to boast the schools imagine. Barker not to far down the road will be looking and seeing whats happening. It's not inconceivable Barker will soon invite the Mariners. Then consider Kings at Parramatta who I believe play some games at Kings, maybe 3 Kls from Parramatta stadium.
I am told SFC play some games as well at public schools.
This is akin to a Tahs V Reds game at a local school. Yet we seem to see this happening around us and not react.
We need to be far more proactive but alias I can offer few solutions
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
QH, by "take their eyes off the ball", you mean actually had to remunerate the labour that provided their income, right?
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Please take away the politics, and the interstate rivalry when answer this question - it is a rugby development question.
If you had money to make it happen, and you were wanting to grow the game, would you;
Create a NSW Pacific Island team for the NRC, other suggestions allowed.
Continue pouring money into the Force.
No doubt there are reasons for each and there is no right or wrong answer.
If you had money to make it happen, and you were wanting to grow the game, would you;
Create a NSW Pacific Island team for the NRC, other suggestions allowed.
Continue pouring money into the Force.
No doubt there are reasons for each and there is no right or wrong answer.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
I'd petition World Rugby to come to the party as they appear to be doing with the prospective Fijian entrance and then invest in the Force.
Doing away with one team or another isn't as simple as it seems. It's contigent on the TV deal. If they are still guaranteed the same money then maybe but only if it is followed by a significant boost in the NRC. Having said that, I'm not a fan of the idea of dosbanding the Force. I'd much rather efforts to centralise the professional game as a means of developing best practice standards both on and off the field were enacted instead. Ideally it would ensure a degree of savings but even if that doesn't turn out to be the case it should result in a more efficient and sustainable business model.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Not quite. I would say that out of their total disposable income they spent too much on players salaries, which at the time outstripped what the top NRL players were getting for a full 22 round home and away season, and too much on middle management. This meant that there was nothing much to spend on rugby infrastructure - junior development etc. No sport can afford to do this - particularly when we have very little in the way of income compared to other codes. At the moment our best opportunities for income are: hosting RWC (once in a generation at best) and BIL tours (once every 12 years).
No one denies players fair pay for their labour, but it's widely accepted that it was way over the odds at the time. As evidence I note that on taking office Pulver cut player payments and reduced administrative staff and engaged in other cost cutting measures.
Absolutely.
The first CBA provided too much of the revenue to the players and then for a lot of years after that, the ARU spent significantly more than the agreed percentage of the game's revenue on player payments.
Strewthcobber
Andrew Slack (58)
And now that's been corrected we have over 100 professional rugby players playing overseas!
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
And now that's been corrected we have over 100 professional rugby players playing overseas!
But at least we're not going broke. Keep paying your employees overs and you end up like Holden - reliant on government hand outs (which rugby isn't going to get) or you can't stay in business.
I'd much rather that rugby stayed in business, developed the base and in time the game will be stronger and maybe far fewer will need to head overseas.
I also note that quite a few who have left have done so for lifestyle reasons or because they were never going to get an opportunity at professional level at any salary.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
In hindsight there was overspending but you have to consider 2 things. Firstly at the time they were entering something unknown. Secondly, player salaries were very inflated at the time due to the Super League was.
As a result, in order to retain many of the players they needed to make competitive offers.
The second is something that drove up costs and was completely beyond their control.
As a result, in order to retain many of the players they needed to make competitive offers.
The second is something that drove up costs and was completely beyond their control.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
I notice a lot of home grown wa players coming through the force whilst we have had one, sef who had Fiji pedigree background, for the rebels.
Would be a big mistake to cut the force
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
Sione Tuipolotu is a born and raised Melbournite (from Frankston I think) and featured in Super Rugby this season. Only 20 years old. Rob Leota is another one who'll emerge likely next season.
Highlander35
Andrew Slack (58)
Sione is a January '97 birthday, he has another year of U20s. We brought back Siliva from the Brumbies too.
Jordan Uelese was the starting hooker for the U20s this year (admittedly after Mafi pulled out with injury) and has signed as well.
Brumbies have pinched Bob Valetini from our U20s too.
And there's always been a small number of Vics floating around too. Lilo, Ulugia, Digby, Lloyd, Samu, Gray. Just need to make sure most of the next generation stays with us.
Jordan Uelese was the starting hooker for the U20s this year (admittedly after Mafi pulled out with injury) and has signed as well.
Brumbies have pinched Bob Valetini from our U20s too.
And there's always been a small number of Vics floating around too. Lilo, Ulugia, Digby, Lloyd, Samu, Gray. Just need to make sure most of the next generation stays with us.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
Strewthcobber
Andrew Slack (58)
Yeah I was being pretty facetious with that statement .
Still there is a balance there.
Dont pay the pros enough and the Super Rugby teams and Wallabies aren't going to be as successful as they could be.
That has an impact on revenue going forward.
And you also end up spending that increased development money on players for Japanese, French and English clubs.
We are paying our (non-wallaby, and increasingly even them) pros below the international market rate, by necessity, which is why I think we are stuffed long term no matter what we do.