Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

[Dave Beat]

We are paying our (non-wallaby, and increasingly even them) pros below the international market rate, by necessity, which is why I think we are stuffed long term no matter what we do.

So what do we do?
Related but unrelated;
When we ring up Telstra we end up in Bangalore.
Soccer players also get paid more offshore.
Back before the early 90's players could earn more playing league.

We are now just not living in Australia, it is global, just look at the Global Financial Crisis (GFC), and more recently even Brexit had an impact out here.

Look at what we have, were we want to be, and plan - yes there will be road block, we then take a detour.

The most important aspect is - grass roots, if we neglect that the impacts of offshore / global will be even greater.

 

[JuanBarn]

What about short term Wallaby contracts, paid for a tour/series whatever. The players bread and butter comes from Super or OS rugby. Selection for each series etc for the wallabies is based on open trials. A player can nominate. Minimum standard must hold an NRC contract. Then over a week of trials the nominees are reduced to a squad for a series, and get their ARU top up payments. Might not fix domestic rugby but would get the best on the paddock of those who want to be there.

 

[Braveheart81]

What about short term Wallaby contracts, paid for a tour/series whatever. The players bread and butter comes from Super or OS rugby. Selection for each series etc for the wallabies is based on open trials. A player can nominate. Minimum standard must hold an NRC contract. Then over a week of trials the nominees are reduced to a squad for a series, and get their ARU top up payments. Might not fix domestic rugby but would get the best on the paddock of those who want to be there.

I don't think that's a realistic option in the professional era.

There isn't the preparation time available for most test series to do this nor is it feasible to have that much full contact time to pick a squad. What happens if 100 people nominate?

The core members of the test team meet regularly through the season and preparation is an ongoing thing. You can't start from scratch each time.

 

[Strewthcobber]

So what do we do?
.

Under current policies, adjust expectations of our teams that play in international competitions, and expect less funding throughout our Sport in the future?

 

[wamberal]

Under current policies, adjust expectations of our teams that play in international competitions, and expect less funding throughout our Sport in the future?

That is just a fact of life. Well put.

 

[Dave Beat]

Under current policies, adjust expectations of our teams that play in international competitions, and expect less funding throughout our Sport in the future?

That is just a fact of life. Well put.

Guys your posts share all sorts of ideas, and suggestions, that if taken up would result in change, I'm sure you guys aren't throwing in the towel.

Build from the bottom up, and with that comes hard work.
With hard work, there maybe support.
With results and success, the feel good accomplishment.
Don't think there are many of use on this forum that made any coin out of rugby, we are involved because of enjoyment (& frustrations)

Attitude, work, planning, etc - increase the numbers @ 6 - 18, and our foundations get broader, and quality lifts.

 

[Quick Hands]

Under current policies, adjust expectations of our teams that play in international competitions, and expect less funding throughout our Sport in the future?

Not so much current policies, but the current situation in which we find ourselves means that we need to adjust expectations. To what extent we can improve our current situation is the important thing.

It should be abundantly clear to anyone who has watched super and test rugby this year that our best players are going to lose more games than they win against top class opposition.

So what to do?

Becoming competitive at the elite level (test/super) is really only going to be sustainable if the junior base is increased over time. This larger talent pool at the bottom should achieve a couple of things 1. More supporters for the elite level and 2. More quality athletes for the higher levels of the game.

IMO to keep trying to fix the Wallabies and/or super rugby without fixing the base isn't sustainable and is doomed to failure.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Not so much current policies, but the current situation in which we find ourselves means that we need to adjust expectations. To what extent we can improve our current situation is the important thing.

It should be abundantly clear to anyone who has watched super and test rugby this year that our best players are going to lose more games than they win against top class opposition.

So what to do?

Becoming competitive at the elite level (test/super) is really only going to be sustainable if the junior base is increased over time. This larger talent pool at the bottom should achieve a couple of things 1. More supporters for the elite level and 2. More quality athletes for the higher levels of the game.

IMO to keep trying to fix the Wallabies and/or super rugby without fixing the base isn't sustainable and is doomed to failure.

There's a thread going on PR discussing the SMH article regarding the schools review. The suggestion of a hybrid schools/clubs structure has come up. I think it is certainly worth looking at in some detail. Specifically the multi-school club that completes alongside both established clubs and schools.

Put simply, schools are the most efficient means to reaching out. Where possible, being enough numbers, kids can play with their school. If there isn't enough numbers in one school but over 3 or four they can be pooled.

Evidently this is done in Japanese Soccer to great success.

 

[Quick Hands]

There's a thread going on PR discussing the SMH article regarding the schools review. The suggestion of a hybrid schools/clubs structure has come up. I think it is certainly worth looking at in some detail. Specifically the multi-school club that completes alongside both established clubs and schools.

Put simply, schools are the most efficient means to reaching out. Where possible, being enough numbers, kids can play with their school. If there isn't enough numbers in one school but over 3 or four they can be pooled.

Evidently this is done in Japanese Soccer to great success.

Schools are only an efficient means of reaching out when certain circumstances exist:

1. The school is willing and able to devote financial and personnel resources to the coaching and training

2. The school has sufficient qualified staff to coach

3. The school has the ability to mandate training and playing outside of school hours (by staff and students)

GPS, CAS and to a slightly lesser extent ISA satisfy all 3 criteria. State sports high schools also to some degree.

Where the plan runs aground is when you get to the logistics of training and playing. State high schools is NSW have a half day on Wednesday afternoons for playing inter-school sport. Training (if it even happens) might be at lunchtimes or before school. This depends on a number of factors - the main one being the ability and willingness of a teacher to work extra time without being paid for it. For the same reason, state schools will rarely participate in after school competitions and almost never participate in weekend competitions. Depending on the union delegate at the school in question, staff will be ostracised if they work over and above the award. Catholic systemic schools are in a similar position.

Once a team officially represents a state school there is also a mountain of bureaucracy involving permission notes and the completion of reams of paperwork.

I'd suggest that the most efficient way is to promote the game in the state schools in every way possible and then directing those players to a club which is linked informally to the school - but is a CLUB.

I don't know where the SMH are getting their information from, but they are heading up a dry gully if they think that any form of hybrid school/club competition could take place. (Another logistical hurdle being that club rugby in Sydney is played on a Sunday). If the ARU or any of its employees seriously think that they could get the NSW Teachers' Federation to work unpaid overtime, they're in fairy land and if they think that the NSW government would want to fund a massive increase in teacher pay for the benefit of rugby, when every other sport is played on a Wednesday afternoon then they are clearly delusional or so divorced from reality that it's not funny. This type of idea could only come from someone whose only rugby experience in in a private rugby playing school.

 

[half]

O boy recent news is not good.

I hope the ARU get on top of this very early, recent events could put a massive dent in our local clubs.

Two days ago Fairfax reported the AFL wanted a shorten game AFL X, 7 a side. What was reported was they wanted to play on soccer grounds. What they said was play on all soccer type fields, i.e rugby as well.

FFA have responded by saying our fields are over used and we turn away about 20% of players because of room.

In another Fairfax article which contained the FFA's response also said. FFA have been given funding by the Commonwealth Gov to undertake a complete audit of their fields and the expectation is more fields to soccer with some taken off other codes.

In the name of the holy mother a large number of our fields are under used.

AFL X won't get soccer grounds they will if it gets up get rugby grounds and if this audit FFA are currently undertaking comes anywhere close to were they think it does then again we can expect a loss of grounds.

I have spoken in the past that our top down approach over arguably 70 years now needs a complete overhaul we need a bottom up model like the other codes.

Tip's post last week about us be invisible is so apt given these current events.

FFA have funding essentially to find more fields, and AFL want to develop a new game. Someone will have to loose in this.

Whats interesting is the ARU have not reacted, unlike FFA have reacted.

IMO this is arguably the worst two bits of information I have heard in YEARS, if measured from increasing participation.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Double edged sword - need to fix rugby at grass roots. But also needs appeal at international and professional level to bring in fans and money to support grass roots development and starve off attacks from other codes on our player and fan base as that is a war we have been losing badly.

Fixing the base at grass roots level will take many years and we can't afford to just wait for this to uncover our next winning wallabies.

Why did Women's 7's do so well - because they looked for the best athletes playing touch etc who could excel at this level.

Wallabies are no different. Hence, league offers some high profile superb athletes that could immediately offer short term fixes to help bolster the wallabies whilst working hard away at next level at grass roots level to build the next superstars from within.

Can you imagine what we would look like without Folau? The ARU has just helped the Rebels to acquire a superb winger with speed to burn called Koroibete who is a genuine speedster and super star. More of the same please as these players generate their own return so lets not start the BS about spending money on league players at expense of grass roots. These sort of moves help sustain our game and provide breathing space to develop the grass roots plans without further destruction of our game. Look at recent crowds for Wallaby and even NRC games and lack of media to see how fragile rugby is at this point.

There are plenty of superb high profile league players with union pedigree. We should be targeting those with good profiles and who would generate immediate returns on what we pay them.

And for those dinosaurs who choke on their cornflakes, that is fine...you go and watch your club rugby on the weekend and relive the glory days of rugby as an amateur sport as that is about all rugby will be good for in this country at this rate. I only hope such dinosaurs are being gradually removed from administration and senior leadership positions in ARU and State level as otherwise not much hope for this sport.

 

[Tip]

IMO this is arguably the worst two bits of information I have heard in YEARS, if measured from increasing participation.

Hopefully they use participation levels from this time next year.

Then the ARU can include all those 1 time 7's players and fudge the numbers!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Hopefully they use participation levels from this time next year.

Then the ARU can include all those 1 time 7's players and fudge the numbers!

That's pretty standard practice.

 

[Tip]

That's pretty standard practice.

No doubt, but Rugby now has a program similar to Oz Kick that that help produce olympic medals.

The ARU could just agree to the changes, and simply request that for every parties benefit (League, Union, Soccer), Duel-use Soccer/Rugby Posts are errected at surburban grounds around Australia so Union, League & Soccer can all use the same fields. Much better solution than Soccer / Rugby ground farce.

 

[half]

We are simply so far behind AFL and soccer in these things.

Look at this.

The snapshot from the report reveals Football is the most popular choice among teachers of all the codes and is officially the most participated team sport in the Sporting Schools program with some 700 schools and 50,000 primary students participating in a Hyundai A-League or Westfield W-League branded program in the last 12 months.

FFA’s schools strategy was launched just two years ago with the primary objective to deliver quality, safe and enjoyable experiences to students. The Football program is delivered by trained coaches representing the Hyundai A-League or Westfield W-League clubs and schools receive a free AIA Vitality MiniRoos equipment pack.

Teachers also have access to the classroom resource which feature 8-12 lessons mapped against the Australian Curriculum for English, Maths, Art and Physical Education.

“The Sporting Schools results are a tremendous boost following our undertaking to align the Member Federations and Hyundai A-League clubs to help drive football’s push into schools with a united approach,” said FFA CEO David Gallop. “The Sporting Schools program has not only given us an increased presence in schools but reduced duplication and provided clarity in the roles Member Federations and Hyundai A-League clubs play in the community and schools. There is still plenty of work to do but this is a fantastic start to our long term schools strategy.”

 

[Rugbynutter39]

We are simply so far behind AFL and soccer in these things.

Look at this.

Here is a simple way to get bums on seats - aru and reds sign up kalyn ponga - a genuine superstar and if aru realise already is wallaby potential - league could not match the offer - lets strike

also he has aspirations to represent his country and would be able to do that much sooner in Union.

The Nike slogan just do it springs to mind. Make it happen!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Quick Hands]

We are simply so far behind AFL and soccer in these things.

We're so far behind lots of sports half.

In the past 5 years junior hockey numbers on the northern beaches of Sydney has quadrupled.

Junior water polo numbers also on the rise, but not as dramatic.

In comparison to rugby, both sports run off the smell of an oily rag, yet they manage to increase junior club based participation. And I'm talking real participation in full-season competitions with semi-finals and finals etc.

 

[wamberal]

All the articles in the popular press about the growth in women's sport feature just about everything except the Sevens.


Let's face it, if our sport's best is not interesting enough to earn a bit of press, what on earth do we do?

 

[Quick Hands]

We're in a difficult space - largely because we're playing catch-up. For example, Viva 7s is a great introductory game really well suited to primary schools in particular. Problem is that Eagle Tag and/or touch football are already established, so it becomes really difficult to convince people to change something which they are already doing, which is also quite similar to what you are offering.

PSSA sport (inter-school Friday afternoons in state primary schools) in Manly Zone consists of:

Winter:
Boys - soccer and rugby league
Girls - soccer and netball

Summer
Boys and girls - Eagle tag and cricket

CHS grade sport (inter-school Wednesday afternoons in state high schools) in the area

Winter:
Boys and girls - Soccer, touch football, basketball, volleyball (netball girls only)

You'll notice that once high school hits, even league is discarded. Sports need to be easy to coach for teachers and both the rugby codes require proper coaching of technique in order to prevent potentially serious injury. Again Viva 7s would be a perfect fit, but it's so similar to touch, how do we convince people to change?

The early bird catches the worm.

 

[Beer Baron]

All the articles in the popular press about the growth in women's sport feature just about everything except the Sevens.

Post in the rugby 7s thread... casslick on front of qweeke d magazine (couriermail Saturday lift out) and rugby 7s was the feature part of a women in sport article including how some schools offer a 7s program.
Let's face it, if our sport's best is not interesting enough to earn a bit of press, what on earth do we do?