Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

[Quick Hands]

Those HPU systems have made Mumm a compelling bench option at international level. Way more than he may have achieved otherwise.

Unfortunately those HPUs are gradually and convincingly reducing the importance of the SS in terms of producing Super Rugby players. Certainly the Premier (thence NRC) is the slot currently for producing late bloomers into this system. But are they (you?) working with us? (In this case the Waratahs Ltd?)

Attempting to tear down successful existing systems smacks of nothing but a bloody-mindedness to confuse self interest with the greater good.

I'll ignore the attempt to connect me in any way with Brett Papworth as it's the exact opposite of what I've been posting.

I'm somewhat confused by your logic here; you seem to think that criticism of the effectiveness of something equates to opposing its existence. I'd actually love it if these HPUs could ensure that players at the elite level could pass both ways, that key backline players could perform the action of punt kicking the ball effectively and similar such core skills.

You seem so eager to find a dastardly SS plot behind every bush, that you seem unable to see the difference between pointing out that something should/could be done better with trying to tear something down.

Although tearing things down is something that you seem to want in relation to SS. I would have thought that logic suggests the following - the stronger and broader the junor base, the stronger club rugby will be; the stronger club rugby is (everywhere, not just Sydney), the better the NRC will be; the stronger the NRC is, the better our super sides will be and the better our super sides are, the stronger the Wallabies will be. A missing or weak link in that chain will mean that the level above and below will suffer.

In case you haven't noticed, rugby isn't going so well that we can afford pointless infighting - in many cases the result of petty jealousies going back decades. And yes, I've criticised certain SS clubs for their petty jealousies because their actions or non-actions weren't/aren't for the greater good. That doesn't meant that I hate those clubs, or want to tear them down, it just means that I don't agree with what they're doing.

So criticising the performance/effectiveness of the HPU in certain parts of their remit is: (a) an honest opinion, (b) not to be confused with wanting the HPU abolished.

Things rarely improve unless shortcomings are identified and/or admitted and steps taken to remedy the particular shortcoming(s). Or is it your view that the HPU is going so well that it can't be improved?

Are all SS clubs working for the betterment of Australian rugby? - they would are say that they are.

Do I think that SS clubs who have declined to participate formally in the NRC are right? No - but it's their choice and they'll be the ones to suffer the most if they are wrong.

I'm confident that Manly, Warringah, North and Gordon have made the right call in setting up the Rays - with the almost unanimous support of the local rugby community by the way. (I say almost because nothing is ever unanimous) In fact the Rays venture was set up and ready to go before the ARU had even formally called for expressions of interest.

And just so it's clear, the NRC is clearly a level above SS (and its equivalents in other cities), anyone who says otherwise is, IMHO, wrong.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Just on building the grass roots, the Force are doing their bit to spread the gospel in schools:

https://www.facebook.com/westernforce/posts/1139751789396902

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

QH, I certainly won't be accusing the Marlins of not getting on board with trying to grow the game and support the NRC.

 

[Quick Hands]

Just on building the grass roots, the Force are doing their bit to spread the gospel in schools:

https://www.facebook.com/westernforce/posts/1139751789396902

Great to see the Force engaging with the community and the local NRC team. Unlike some, I'm hopeful that rugby in the west will become a success. To me it's a venture worth supporting and a necessary investment in the future.

 

[Quick Hands]

QH, I certainly won't be accusing the Marlins of not getting on board with trying to grow the game and support the NRC.

Manly Roos run community rugby programs such as this which was open to our own players and members of the community. (As do the other Manly clubs)

http://roosrugby.com.au/rugbyclub/2016/06/free-roos-marlins-nsw-rugby-camp-13-july-at-keirle-park/

Also we'll be running (for the second year) a programme in local primary schools during term 4.

Each of the junior village clubs have a special day allocated to them at Marlins home games.

http://roosrugby.com.au/rugbyclub/2016/05/manly-roos-day-at-marlins-home-game-18th-june/

Manly, Warringah, Norths and Gordon proudly support the Rays NRC team.

THE MACQUARIE Uni Sydney Rays have a strong engagement with the Rugby community through their foundation member clubs – Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs and Warringah.
We will play our home games in 2016 at North Sydney Oval and Pittwater Rugby Park and will feature in three games that will be televised live on Fox Sports in the third running of the Buildcorp National Rugby Championship.
The club draws its playing staff essentially from the four members clubs (Gordon, Manly, Norths and Warringah) and has drawn on Wallabies and Super Rugby players associated with this part of the world.
The coaching staff, headed up by Simon Cron (Northern Suburbs) and assisted by Julian Huxley (Warringah), are now well into their pre-season and the club has received plaudits for its strong off-field structure headed up by former ARU boss Gary Flowers.

http://www.raysrugby.com.au/sponsors/

 

[Train Without a Station]

QH that's a good point.

ILTW appears to criticise the system but perhaps the criticisms are of the people in certain roles in them.

Undoubtedly they could do better and are not doing an exceptional job. But I somewhat dispute that they are doing a poor job.

Look how much excellent talent that has played up to Aus Under 20s levels and beyond is plying their trade overseas.

The issue is not developing talent. It's retaining it. Through a combination of lack of funds to retain some of the best, and lack of teams to retain some of the middle of the pack quality players. As a result there's more Australians playing professionally in Europe and Japan than Super Rugby for a number of reasons.

The problem is with 5 teams some players who are good enough to be game day 23 players will be stuck in the 24-35 squad positions, and most importantly the pay that goes with it. EPS players were on $40k per year and Maranta has apparently been recruited to the Reds on about $70k per year.

Why take that when you can earn $100-200k in Europe?

So as a result when injuries occur, the quality of players is a bigger drop again.

 

[RugbyReg]

The overall goal for Australian rugby should be for the Wallabies to be as strong as they can be. Everything needs to be working in that direction.
.

So we just cut any funding and focus on the women's game?

Nup I think the focus for Australian Rugby is to get as many people playing the game as possible.

If the pathways and programs work from there then hopefully the elite level of the game is producing results, but in the end the game will be healthy if the participant numbers are healthy.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

So we just cut any funding and focus on the women's game?

Nup I think the focus for Australian Rugby is to get as many people playing the game as possible.

If the pathways and programs work from there then hopefully the elite level of the game is producing results, but in the end the game will be healthy if the participant numbers are healthy.

I'd actually argue we should be focusing more on the women's game looking to build off Rio. With participation, it's the key to future Wallabies success. More people playing tends to lead to more people watching. More importantly, it leads to greater depth of talent in order to draw from.

On another note. Reg, I have almost finished the piece I mentioned writing using the QRU 7s template. I've been painting recently so it has taken longer than I had intended but how would I go about submitting it here?

 

[RugbyReg]

If anyone doubted the benefits of the Rugby 7s as a 'gateway drug' for rugby, here's a little story for you.

My sons go to a new private school in Brisbane, with grades 4-9. They are a new school so don't sit in any of the traditional comps. The rugby progam is decent and manages to secure games against many of those traditional rugby schools and others to fill out a couple of terms of rugby. They struggle with many kids playing soccer in term 2 and AFL across terms. All up they probably had about 120 kids play rugby this season.

They are now joining the BJRU club 7s program next term and have 250 kids signed up and ready to play with heaps coming from the other two codes. That's a pretty remarkable figure in my eyes and must come largely on the profile of the sport at the Olympics.

Hopefully it means more XVs next year.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

If anyone doubted the benefits of the Rugby 7s as a 'gateway drug' for rugby, here's a little story for you.

My sons go to a new private school in Brisbane, with grades 4-9. They are a new school so don't sit in any of the traditional comps. The rugby progam is decent and manages to secure games against many of those traditional rugby schools and others to fill out a couple of terms of rugby. They struggle with many kids playing soccer in term 2 and AFL across terms. All up they probably had about 120 kids play rugby this season.

They are now joining the BJRU club 7s program next term and have 250 kids signed up and ready to play with heaps coming from the other two codes. That's a pretty remarkable figure in my eyes and must come largely on the profile of the sport at the Olympics.

Hopefully it means more XVs next year.

That's great to read and perhaps more importantly demonstrates the power of Sevens as a key participation driver within our game. It's something I'm keen to see developed. Just imagine if in this case the QRU were able to replicate this interest a number of times over across schools in the state. I was talking recently with a mate who is studying sports management and he mentioned that with little else in terms of recruitment these sort of programs tend to retention rates of between 10-15%. The game will be healthier for it.

 

[RugbyReg]

On another note. Reg, I have almost finished the piece I mentioned writing using the QRU 7s template. I've been painting recently so it has taken longer than I had intended but how would I go about submitting it here?

I've sent you a direct message about this mate.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I've sent you a direct message about this mate.

Just looked it up. Cheers.

 

[Tip]

The major problem with Rugby in Australia is that it
a) It is an invisible product without consumer reach (Lack of FTA presence)
b) There is less than 10 games a year, per city, to watch. (NRC is addressing this though)
c) Declining participation

I believe c) is a byproduct of a & b.

The Reds have 8 home games this year. The Wallabies play here once. Can someone tell me how Rugby is meant to sustain playing numbers in these circumstances. How are the franchises even able to stay afloat, especially if you lose the first 3 or 4 games of your season.. oh wait...

The ARU need to be bold and see what's not working.

There's talk now of Fiji having a team in the NRC from as early as next year, funded by World Rugby and it's Oceania Development fund. This could be a gamechanger, paving the way for an NRC with Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and the establishment of professional franchises on each of the island atolls. Hopefully this experiment is a runaway success and Samoa & Tonga are able to quickly follow suit.

I think this is all very important, as there's a massive Polynesian community in Australia. The ARU (and NZRU) should be looking at the national teams of Samoa, Fiji & Tonga and saying

"that's 3 sellouts a year, every year if we can help them get their shit together and a network of potential Rugby supporters ".

Disband Super Rugby, make it a Heiniken Cup style comp. (4 x 4 teams, H&A fixtures, 9 weeks) Invite Japanese teams. Create new ANZ Comp with Fiji, Samoa, Tonga & NZ Franchises. Play everyone home and away. 24 Rounds of Rugby, 12 home games a piece. Play Samoa, Tonga & Fiji international teams annually, in a pacifica month of rugby festival.

Oh, & FFS, if we want to shake the elitist tag, why dont we get one game of domestic footy on FTA a week hey?

 

[Joe King]

The overall goal for Australian rugby should be to get as many people playing the game as possible, and providing as much enjoyment for the fans as possible.

For this to occur, there needs to be a long term plan to feed and develop interest and skills at all levels of the pyramid.

Australian rugby cannot depend upon the Wallabies winning to do this. Realistically, the Wallabies are not going to win all the time, especially when playing NZ and SA as regularly as they do. We need a new strategy that can withstand the dry spells for the Wallabies.

Super Rugby can’t play this role. Yes, Super Rugby helps to keep the top players from going overseas, which apparently prevents professional rugby in Australia from sinking altogether. But it is not going to feed and develop interest at all levels of the pyramid below. Part of the reason is because it’s not on free to air TV. But that’s not actually main reason. Even without free to air TV, when an Australian Super Rugby team looks likely to win the Super Rugby competition, it still gains a lot of interest. The main reason Super Rugby cannot be the solution is because most of the time (only 4 times in the last 20 years) the glory and benefits of winning do not go to some part of Australia.

The premier clubs in Sydney (and perhaps Qld) can’t play this role. They can gain a lot of interest in Sydney (and perhaps Qld), but do they really help rugby outside of these areas? And are they really able to develop players who can easily step up to Super Rugby?

The NRC is a step towards following the model in NZ and SA, and I can see it growing and developing a stronger following. But its main function will always be developing players, rather than capturing the imagination of fans and truly competing with the domestic competitions of rival codes. Perhaps the main reason for this is that all the test players are not available for it.

This seems to be a problem for Australian rugby. We do have the women's 7's, which is great. But we probably need something else in the men's department as well.

I wish they would finish Super Rugby before the June Tests, and then have the Rugby Championship follow on from that (July-Aug). They could then have the NRC between the RC and the November Tests.

It would go: Super Rugby - June Tests - RC - NRC - November Tests

This would mean Super Rugby does not need to awkwardly break (and lose momentum) during the June Tests, and the international season can flow seamlessly from the June Tests into the RC.

It would also allow Australia to have their own national domestic tournament with all the test players available, and not rely on Super Rugby to fulfil this role.

I wonder if it would be a win for the premier clubs as well. They could have a longer season if they wanted (Mar-Aug), and also have all the Super Rugby players available during the June Tests and the RC (June-Aug) to touch base with all the grass roots fans in all the premier club competitions around the country. This would be a compromise for some. But the condition would be that all the Sydney premier clubs need to get behind the NRC 100%.

One of the drawbacks would be that Super Rugby would make less money. There may be something back from increased commercial interest in the NRC, but this would be a risk.

However, it seems like something has to adjust so that we aren't caught in the same cycle forever. And it’s not the same as saying ‘let’s get rid of Super Rugby altogether’.

The trick would be arranging the Super Rugby tournament to be fair, simple to follow, commercially viable, and fit within 13-14 weeks. But perhaps, there in lies the problem.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I wish they would finish Super Rugby before the June Tests, and then have the Rugby Championship follow on from that (July-Aug). They could then have the NRC between the RC and the November Tests.

It would go: Super Rugby - June Tests - RC - NRC - November Tests

This would mean Super Rugby does not need to awkwardly break (and lose momentum) during the June Tests, and the international season can flow seamlessly from the June Tests into the RC.

It would also allow Australia to have their own national domestic tournament with all the test players available, and not rely on Super Rugby to fulfil this role.

I wonder if it would be a win for the premier clubs as well. They could have a longer season if they wanted (Mar-Aug), and also have all the Super Rugby players available during the June Tests and the RC (June-Aug) to touch base with all the grass roots fans in all the premier club competitions around the country. This would be a compromise for some. But the condition would be that all the Sydney premier clubs need to get behind the NRC 100%.

One of the drawbacks would be that Super Rugby would make less money. There may be something back from increased commercial interest in the NRC, but this would be a risk.

However, it seems like something has to adjust so that we aren't caught in the same cycle forever. And it’s not the same as saying ‘let’s get rid of Super Rugby altogether’.

The trick would be arranging the Super Rugby tournament to be fair, simple to follow, commercially viable, and fit within 13-14 weeks. But perhaps, there in lies the problem.

So, revert back to S12? Pretty sure that was run and done in a 13-14 week time frame. I suppose if you were to look toward doing something like the conference system actually makes the most sense. Move the Sunwolves into our conference, tbe Jaguares into the NZ and keep the SA conference as is. Only run the domestic side of it. So, each team plays one another H/A for 10 games. Top 2 from each go through to a finals series where they are ranked 1-6 using points and if need be for and against. Top 2 sit out the first week with 3 playing 6 and 4 playing 5. Winners progess to the major semi-final and so on. All up it would run 13 weeks.

Then you could have your June Test window and run The Rugby Championship as part of a Test season before as above each running their own supercharged domestic competition. Question is, would the reformatting be worth more or less to broadcasters.

 

[half]

The major problem with Rugby in Australia is that it
a) It is an invisible product without consumer reach (Lack of FTA presence)
b) There is less than 10 games a year, per city, to watch. (NRC is addressing this though)
c) Declining participation

I believe c) is a byproduct of a & b.

The Reds have 8 home games this year. The Wallabies play here once. Can someone tell me how Rugby is meant to sustain playing numbers in these circumstances. How are the franchises even able to stay afloat, especially if you lose the first 3 or 4 games of your season.. oh wait.

Tip

Very preservative post.

The AFL broadcast just over 200 Australian based games, the NRL roughly the same, the A-League 140 plus another 18 club Asian cup matches plus Socceroos which will lift to 200 A-League games when they go to 12 teams, plus their W-League.

The AFL is also bringing in a Womens game to be broadcast next year as is Netball.

Rugby is becoming totally invisible as you suggest, its being swamped by other sports.

Optus is broadcasting the EPL and have expressed an interest in broadcasting the A-League OMG what a poker game Gallop has going for him now.

The continual broadcasting of our tier three SS is hurting as well a handful at the game and quality not that great at times yet this is our only FTA advertisement of the game.

A client from the Central Coast today who works the media sent me this today after I read that Optus wanted the A-League.

Tip other sports, seem to have worked this out however as you correctly said we just don't seem to have the ability to crack through.

The notion the NRC should be about player development for the national team makes me wanta break down and cry. As always the national teams interest trumps all other considerations.

I want the NRC to be on TV, independent, and most importantly not played in a narrow window at the high ends of the NRL and AFL season.

Part of my clients email to me, a should add a hard core rusted on soccer bloke. Tis worth a read

hey will all want it, and FFA will be talking to all parties.
This is an area linked to my own, I've heard executives and Producers speak on what's going on and I think there's likely cause for more optimism than most might realise.

We're in a period of unprecedented change and disruption for the networks. SVOD, VOD and the internet have obviously made a huge impact on how and also importantly 'when' people are consuming media, and this is impacting on the Advertising dollar – which is how the networks have always made their money.

This is making for a lot of uncertainty. People are tuning in to Netflix or Stan or Presto or what have you for serials and movies, and also consuming media at times that suit them, making the placement of premium advertising spots harder to gauge/sell as well. But sports programming has continued to grow and deliver, and creates premium spots etc, and so are being viewed as one of the only real certainties to underpin the networks and guarantee advertising dollars moving forward. So this is not just about the A leagues worth, it's about the value of sports programming in general. Which is why we are seeing new players coming out of the woodwork and also the TV networks coming out swinging even for SOKKAH.

 

[dru]

The question is not whether FTA is adviseable for rugby. It is how would you do this without reduction in Foxtel income (or its destruction) and without major impact on on the current arrangements for professional rugby in Australia.

Anything that reduces the impact of professional rugby, even as constrained (publically) as it is, will benefit no-one. Let alone the knife edge that is the commercial position of at least three if not four of the franchises.

You also have to ask, in this time of major change when the world of (the not very distant tomorrow) will be further challenging FTA, right now, is it the right strategy to return to FTA?

Your mate talks of Stan, Netflix etc, perhaps we need to be bolder. Out of interest, how hard is it (how cheaply can it can't it be done) to self broadcast on an ARU channel.

Then add packages such as "game pass" as in USA NFL for tragics like the fans here?

The lack of FTA has not been good for rugby. Is now the time to return to it? It would be a bit like investing in brown coal power generation for me.

 

[wamberal]

I have pointed out several times, here and elsewhere, that both the AFL and the NRL (particularly the former) have been investing big in content production for years.


The AFL has boasted of having 100 in their media department.



Pulver has a background in the dark arts of on-line content production and delivery AFAIK but of course to achieve anything would take very big pockets. It goes without saying that the ARU could not achieve anything on its own. Let's hope that Whirled Rugby are alive to the possibilities.

 

[barbarian]

Rugby is becoming totally invisible as you suggest, its being swamped by other sports.

Optus is broadcasting the EPL and have expressed an interest in broadcasting the A-League OMG what a poker game Gallop has going for him now.

The A-League went backwards last year, and the momentum of the code locally has really stalled. Their ratings were down, their crowds were down.

They will be a really interesting case study. They are trying to sell their TV rights at the moment, and really struggling (as they struggled to find a jersey sponsor for the Socceroos).

They made the decision to have an FTA presence last year in the A-League. SBS dumped them on a digital channel, and their ratings figures were dire.

There is a lot of potential for that comp to grow, but I don't think we should be lionising it as a threat to rugby. Mainly due to the different season times, but also because it's not the giant that many here make it to be.
.

 

[half]

^^^^^

Barbarian

Seriously is that you response, that A-League rating fell slightly last year.

Then an SBS analysis.

Mate, Netball, AFL Womens league, Football they are all pushing into FTA spaces.

The difference running Football on a commercial network and SBS will large IMO.

The point that Tip was making is as a sport we are becoming invisible, other sports seem to have a knack of doing things we don't.

The point Tip made pertaining to the number of games we play etc.

This management of our exposure is not a small thing.