Cooper - Good or Great rugby player - discuss.

[da_grubster]

Outstanding at super xv level. Average at best at test level. So far. I have said on here for months that Cooper is not the player you need for pressure, knockout rugby. Having said that, is Quade's style suited to that type of game. He will have to evolve as a player if so, he is mainly a front foot ball player but like most players struggles when his team is going backwards but his struggles turn out to be howlers as we have evidenced in this world cup.

He needs some more experience of playing at test level to get his confidence back so he is comfortable and then he may be able to assert himself at the highest level. It would also be a big help if his forwards could front up in the big games.

fell sorry for the kid, 6 months ago he had the world at his feet, then he brought a lot of his troubles on himself with his niggles and dirty play against Saint Richie and by the end of it you wonder if he isnt a broken man??

 

[da_grubster]

He has gotten worse since he has been defending at fullback for the wallabies, hasn't he?

I think allowing him to be 'hidden' on defence leads to half the problems. It allows him to think he is special and doesn't need to do the dirty work of his other teammates. His defence is poor but he can tackle, goes too high most of the time but he can do it and defence really is an attitude thing as well.

Quade needs to get teh tackle bags out in the summer and front up like everybody else. that way, when he mans up in defence during big games he may be able to handle the pressure that goes with it.

 

[DPK]

As for Rakic - the guy's an idiot. That "hospital pass" to McCabe - well, McCabe ran over 10m straight into a prop with an overlap to the left (Ioane screaming for it), and Cooper screaming for it back on the inside. Sometimes everyone is out to blame one player, and for most Australians, it looks like it's Cooper.

My experience playing on the wing and in backlines is that the winger is always screaming for it.

 

[Budgie]

I haven't read all of this thread, just the last couple of pages so if apologise if this idea has already been posted. I also put this on the McCaw is injured thread in reply to the depth of #10's the Kiwis have.

NZ plays their 3rd choice #10 against us the the RWC Semi, and he does OK.

For those who are getting stuck into QC (Quade Cooper), just stop and think, If we got rid of him (and probably Berrick in hypothetical injury) Who would be our 3rd choice#10 and who would we get to the bench as the backup#10? And how would they have performed at RWC Semi Final time level.

Maybe QC (Quade Cooper) isn't all that bad after all.

Would Giteau be the 3rd choice #10, and Toomea be the 4th?

 

[chriscullen]

No player can be contemplated being called 'a great' when they lack the ability to tackle, a key facet of the game. He is like his idol Carlos Spencer who was a great super rugby player but often failed at test level mainly because I think he thought he needed to 'bring' his tricks every game.
It concerns me that other teammates have to adjust their game/position because Cooper is a weak defender.

 

[pete88]

Would Giteau be the 3rd choice #10, and Toomea be the 4th?

JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale are probably ahead of Giteau in Deans's eyes. And mine, FWIW. I'm kind of hoping we see some of Rabbit in a Wallaby playmaking position next year, I want to see what he can do and at the very least it takes pressure off Cooper, we don't need to start him if we have to totally change gameplans by changing number 10.

And yes, seeing him defend in position would be nice. He actually used to make more tackles than he does now I think. It's very much a psychological thing, he's not confident in defence and tries to compensate for it by going for the hero strip every time.

 

[maxdacat]

The person managing him does't seem to know much about rugby:

"Asked how he thought the 23-year-old five-eighth had played, Nasser said: ''He went pretty good. From my understanding, you have to have a forward pack going forward for the rest of the team to go forward."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-his-client-20111018-1lz0w.html#ixzz1bByK62hm

From my understanding.....WTF!!!

 

[WhoDaresWin]

Good - Yes

Great - maybe

 

[Loki74]

The person managing him does't seem to know much about rugby:

"Asked how he thought the 23-year-old five-eighth had played, Nasser said: ''He went pretty good. From my understanding, you have to have a forward pack going forward for the rest of the team to go forward."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-his-client-20111018-1lz0w.html#ixzz1bByK62hm

From my understanding.....WTF!!!

Definitely people should be paying more for him. What League team wouldn't want a playmaker who currently has some serious questions as to whether he can make sensible decisions under pressure. Wallabies should give him an ex gratia bonus for his Cup performance just to try to keep him.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Good - Yes

Great - maybe

Good - yes

Great - no.

He has become more and more like spencer.

He can light the world on fire against lesser quality opposition, but against the top teams his plays and decision making become more risky.

I found it absurd that only a few months ago australian commentators and some on this form were saying he was possibly better than carter, based purely on super 15 form. he is nowhere near carter. Personally, I don't think he's a top 3 fly half in the world (when playing against top opposition).

I see so many similarities between him and sonny bill - against lower quality opposition their 'unpredictable genius" tears teams apart. Against better schooled opposition, their unpredictability becomes recklessness and can be contained much easier.

Of course his biggest problem is that he is still young. He needs to calm down and keep his head down and just play the game.

I'll say it for the 1000th time. his defense has to improve or he won't improve. if he loses his lack of confidence regarding contact he will improve as a player.

 

[Blob]

Except Spencer destroyed the big teams too. Look, give it a rest. He's similar to Spencer only in that he's unconventional. In terms of actual achievement he has a long way to go.

 

[pete88]

Stick him behind an All Black forward pack and he would manage Spencer's achievements quite easily.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Except Spencer destroyed the big teams too. Look, give it a rest. He's similar to Spencer only in that he's unconventional. In terms of actual achievement he has a long way to go.

Agree. I'm comparing the player and styles. You can't argue that spencer was a liability despite how amazing he was. Cooper can be the same. of course he's got a long way to go. Spencer played a lot more rugby than 23 year old cooper!

I think the better comparison is cooper and sonny bill.

 

[Bullrush]

Agree. I'm comparing the player and styles. You can't argue that spencer was a liability despite how amazing he was. Cooper can be the same. of course he's got a long way to go. Spencer played a lot more rugby than 23 year old cooper!

I think the better comparison is cooper and sonny bill.

OK....let's get this straight. Spencer was never going to be nominated for the hitman of the year award but he wasn't hidden at FB or on the wing either......and his teams still won.

 

[I like to watch]

Let's be a little bit fair, put QC (Quade Cooper) in with the guys that Carlos played with and they still win.

 

[Scotty]

Stick him behind an All Black forward pack and he would manage Spencer's achievements quite easily.

Not to mention inside of Nonu.

That is a flyhalf's dream.

 

[Scotty]

OK....let's get this straight. Spencer was never going to be nominated for the hitman of the year award but he wasn't hidden at FB or on the wing either......and his teams still won.

Quade wasn't being hidden at fullback last year when the Wallabies beat the ABs.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

OK....let's get this straight. Spencer was never going to be nominated for the hitman of the year award but he wasn't hidden at FB or on the wing either......and his teams still won.

To be fair to him BR, I think QC (Quade Cooper) is 50% vs the AB's isn't he?

Although, Spencer does constantly get judged on a WC semi where his team was knocked out.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Not to mention inside of Nonu.

That is a flyhalf's dream.

He'd never get there because somewhere along the line someone would run at him, or put pressure on him and he'd dropped back in the pocket and his cards would be marked.
A bloke doesn't get to be as good as, say, Dan Carter, and make the mistakes QC (Quade Cooper) does whenever the pressure is applied to him.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Realistically, what chance is there of Quade Cooper going to league? I am not trying to wind anyone up, I just wonder would Union in Aus have the money to keep him if the bigger league franchises came calling?