Cooper - Good or Great rugby player - discuss.
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pete88
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Think it's a bit premature to write off a 23 year old as never being up to international rugby, specially when he obviously has the talent. I just wish we didn't insist on picking players as some sort of "chosen one" for tournaments that are years away.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
do you reckon the reds/wallabies would release him early?
No. The Reds give him the structure he needs.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
But if he says I dont want to play union anymore for personal reasons...wasn't LInk the coach at the Tahs when rogers was released (i knows its different). do they want a bloke there who doesnt want to be there?
I'm interested because the tip I have been given is that both QC (Quade Cooper) and SBW will be at the Roosters in 2012: I dont rate the tipper too highly and i just want to see if it cold be made to hang together
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
You get the prize for being the only person on here who has ever admitted that they dont know the answer......quite an honour
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Some slightly biased reporting in today's smh on cooper:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/r...s-when-he-was-needed-most-20111016-1lrmb.html
The way I remember that incident was a) it wasn't a hospital pass and b) McCabe had plenty of time to pass it wider and c) he was tackled by a prop!
Cooper follows Dwyer's mantra of putting it through the hands, and he still gets pillared.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/r...s-when-he-was-needed-most-20111016-1lrmb.html
The way I remember that incident was a) it wasn't a hospital pass and b) McCabe had plenty of time to pass it wider and c) he was tackled by a prop!
Cooper follows Dwyer's mantra of putting it through the hands, and he still gets pillared.
JimboJoe1006
Chris McKivat (8)
Dwyer's key mantra, the flat attack, is being completely disregarded though. For Queensland, Quade plays beautifully. Stands reasonably flat, and hits the ball at speed. Holding the ball in both hands out in front, takes the ball to the line, drawing in defence. Then either a fast, flat ball out the line, or a deeper long ball to a second distributor to hit at full speed, on an angle run.
With perhaps one or two exceptions, Quade hasn't done this for Australia since England I 2010. He is standing way too deep, I remember Kafer remarking in New Zealand I 2011, he hasn't seen Quade ever stand so deep. Defence's are rushing and his tactical kicking has been very average so they arn't stopping.
Stand flat son, hit it at speed, have Samo and Elsom off either shoulder. Beale or JOC (James O'Connor) waiting behind the line to re-distribute if need be. McCabe running a hard flat, Stirling line, at 12.5. Horne yelling for it to sprint at their wing, and Ioane ready to tip-toe down the line.
M
max11247
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Cooper is unbelievably good, but he can also be pretty bloody average. I would rather settle for someone who was consistently reliable.
I am a Quade fan, but I think we need to cut our losses and identify someone who is able to play a simple and direct brand of rugby, and leave the fancy stuff to the guys out wide. Quade is as brilliant as the likes of David Campese, Carlos Spencer and Benji Marshall...but we can do without having those sorts of magicians in the wallaby ten jersey.
In these big games where everything is on the line, being able to do the simple things whilst under pressure is the biggest asset you can have. I would rather have an Elton Flatley type 5/8th (does the basics very well, kicks the crap out of the ball, and isn't afraid of the rough and tumble), rather than Quade Cooper.
I am a Quade fan, but I think we need to cut our losses and identify someone who is able to play a simple and direct brand of rugby, and leave the fancy stuff to the guys out wide. Quade is as brilliant as the likes of David Campese, Carlos Spencer and Benji Marshall...but we can do without having those sorts of magicians in the wallaby ten jersey.
In these big games where everything is on the line, being able to do the simple things whilst under pressure is the biggest asset you can have. I would rather have an Elton Flatley type 5/8th (does the basics very well, kicks the crap out of the ball, and isn't afraid of the rough and tumble), rather than Quade Cooper.
redstragic
Alan Cameron (40)
In the game I watched last night the All Black forwards belted us. It is tough for a 9 or 10 to play behind a pack going backwards. These guys are young and will learn from this and be better for it. Isn't that what Reds fans were saying for 4 years whilst we waited for our team to mature at Super Rugby level.
Remember the Lions tour in 2001 where our forwards won the battle, Wilkinson did not look nearly as good as he did in 2003 when England won the cup. Cooper and Genia together creates the genius we need to keep going.
Remember the Lions tour in 2001 where our forwards won the battle, Wilkinson did not look nearly as good as he did in 2003 when England won the cup. Cooper and Genia together creates the genius we need to keep going.
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max11247
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I agree that we got belted in the forwards. However...
It is a matter of opinion, but I wouldn't use the pressure of the AB's pack as an excuse for Coopers poor kicking and decision making.
I use the example of Elton Flatley because I think it is fair to make a comparison of 5/8ths playing under intense forward opposition. I would say that in the '03 final, we were dominated by an even more awesome pack than what we faced last night. Flatley, never a brilliant player (except in schooboys), put in a 10/10 performance with his kicking and defence, which helped keep us in the game until that bloody Wilkinson drop goal.
When the game calls for a classic 5/8 game, either from being dominated by an opposition forward pack or because of ground conditions, we need to be able to adapt our gameplay. Sadly, I think Quade lacks the maturity/ability to have a Plan B.
It is a matter of opinion, but I wouldn't use the pressure of the AB's pack as an excuse for Coopers poor kicking and decision making.
I use the example of Elton Flatley because I think it is fair to make a comparison of 5/8ths playing under intense forward opposition. I would say that in the '03 final, we were dominated by an even more awesome pack than what we faced last night. Flatley, never a brilliant player (except in schooboys), put in a 10/10 performance with his kicking and defence, which helped keep us in the game until that bloody Wilkinson drop goal.
When the game calls for a classic 5/8 game, either from being dominated by an opposition forward pack or because of ground conditions, we need to be able to adapt our gameplay. Sadly, I think Quade lacks the maturity/ability to have a Plan B.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Er, so I must be the only one here, or in the world, because I thought that Cooper wasn't bad last night. He had a nervous start - kick out off kick off and dropping a high ball, but apart from that he had a solid game. Organised the backline much better, took better decisions. To me, Cooper was much, much better than Genia, yet the same criticism and number of criticising articles aren't being directed at him.
As for Rakic - the guy's an idiot. That "hospital pass" to McCabe - well, McCabe ran over 10m straight into a prop with an overlap to the left (Ioane screaming for it), and Cooper screaming for it back on the inside. Sometimes everyone is out to blame one player, and for most Australians, it looks like it's Cooper.
As for Rakic - the guy's an idiot. That "hospital pass" to McCabe - well, McCabe ran over 10m straight into a prop with an overlap to the left (Ioane screaming for it), and Cooper screaming for it back on the inside. Sometimes everyone is out to blame one player, and for most Australians, it looks like it's Cooper.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
I didn't think Cooper was much chop last night, especially early, but he did improve as the game went on. If you read the papers, though, you'd think the "journos" watched last week's game by accident. Lots of opprobrium for QC (Quade Cooper), none for Genia who I thought was much worse. I really feel for Quade today. He's had a poor tournament and been attacked by the NZ public and media -- but he doesn't deserve to cop it this way for last night.
Agree totally. That was a rubbish line from Rakic. Pass was fine, McCabe got it in space with Ioane outside him. Had time to sum up - either push it on to Ioane, as there was a chance out wide, or put it on the boot himself. Instead he went straight into the defence, no support from our forwards, game over. Wasn't Cooper's doing.
You'd have to say with Cooper that he clearly has the talent to be a great. Whether he has the willpower and commitment only time will tell. And I don't think anyone is doing him favours by saying don't worry about manning up in defence. If he mans up, show the rest of the team he is willing to put his body on the line. Isn't forcing other players to switch positions. And the great players work on all facets of their games. Look at Carter's front on defence.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
This is the recurring theme that is the real problem though...
vidiot
John Solomon (38)
Nah. Even Henry said he had a better game, in his understated way post match. Cooper started nervously but looked the part after taking a high ball and being smashed by Ka hu hu, standing and protecting the ball while Genia picked it up at the start of the 2nd 1/4.
Rakic and the SMH are out for blood, and Cooper is a popular target. The comment on the pass to no one - JOC (James O'Connor) just changed lines. What a dick (Rakic).
Cardiffblue
Jim Lenehan (48)
Not always. Sometimes he just shovels to through the hands to the play he imagines is there.
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pete88
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Yeah Quade definitely managed to flick a switch and go form horrific to possibly our best on the ground. If he sets it as his career ambition, it is well within him to become our best all time 10s. He has at least a decade of professional rugby left in him IF HE STAYS and WORKS.
EDIT: This is a useful post for this thread, might as well cross link it. http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/fo...s.-New-Zealand?p=303951&viewfull=1#post303951
EDIT: This is a useful post for this thread, might as well cross link it. http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/fo...s.-New-Zealand?p=303951&viewfull=1#post303951
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