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Cooper - Good or Great rugby player - discuss.

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Motorboater

Guest
I feel sorry for Quade. He's being asked to play a style of rugby foreign to him. As a result he's struggling. If Robbie wanted to attempt a field position, high percentage style of rugby then he has the wrong man at 10.
 
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Loki74

Ward Prentice (10)
Motorboater said:
I feel sorry for Quade. He's being asked to play a style of rugby foreign to him. As a result he's struggling. If Robbie wanted to attempt a field position, high percentage style of rugby then he has the wrong man at 10.
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And probably shouldn't have been training them for a running game for the past 2 years.
 
Bowside

Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
I think we can all agree cooper is a better play than what he has shown us. He needs to work on certain parts of his game no doubt, but I am sure this whole experience will resonate with him, and in the long run he will be a better player because of it. I hope he sticks with rugby and come 2015, he can put it all together and win us a world cup.
 
light

light

Peter Fenwicke (45)
When we look back on a players career there are certain defining moments which decide whether they are just good or great. Unfortunately for Quade, many will look back at this world cup, and rightfully so. We can only hope that he sticks around long enough to play the next world cup, if his super rugby form and ability is any indication of what he is capable of, he can be great.

For mine, there's been two defining moments so far; the supeRugby title and the world cup campaign. He's neutral in my books, no better or worse than Giteau,Flatley or a Carlos Spencer. To achieve the status that Larkham, Van Der Westhuizen, Wilkinson, Carter, Slack and Steyn have achieved he needs to show compusure under pressure, make quality decisions and make the most of opportunities that are presented to him. It only takes one moment of greatness to make all the haters forget about the bad times.
 
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Mojoman

Guest
Cooper will never be "Great" Not like Michael Lynagh "Great" or Stephen Larkham "Great" He will only ever be talented, flashy and erratic. Unfortunately the flashy and erratic bit seem to go together. Cooper is more Carlos Spencer than Stephen Larkham. His game is tailor-made for Super Rugby where it's loose and free flowing. The emphasis is on scoring bonus points and entertaining crowds. Test match rugby is a different beast. Less space, better players in opposition, much more pressure, more conservative games etc.

Best thing you can do is pair Cooper with Barnes or IMO. It takes the playmaking pressure off Cooper and he won't be included to try and do it all himself.
 
TSR

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
Mojoman said:
Cooper will never be "Great" Not like Michael Lynagh "Great" or Stephen Larkham "Great" He will only ever be talented, flashy and erratic. Unfortunately the flashy and erratic bit seem to go together. Cooper is more Carlos Spencer than Stephen Larkham. His game is tailor-made for Super Rugby where it's loose and free flowing. The emphasis is on scoring bonus points and entertaining crowds. Test match rugby is a different beast. Less space, better players in opposition, much more pressure, more conservative games etc.

Best thing you can do is pair Cooper with Barnes or IMO. It takes the playmaking pressure off Cooper and he won't be included to try and do it all himself.
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Maybe you are right, but then maybe you aren't. Cooper's last couple of games certainly weren't flashy. He wasn't free flowing.

Cooper has every chance to go on and become a player of the calibre of Larkham & Lynagh. He has better attacking skills than both of them, but he clearly doesn't have the maturity or clarity of thought. He may never acquire them, but then again, given how much his game has improved in the last 2 yrs maybe he will.

IMO Cooper played like someone who had backed himself into a corner and was trying to get out, but instead of taking a few deep breathes the harder he tried the worse his game got. I do think he pulled himself together for the last 50 mins of the Semi, but the horse had bolted. But I don't think he ever stopped trying. He now has some time off to get his head together. Too late for the world cup I know, but not too late for him to have a very successful career.

Even his defence is fixable. I don't buy the arguement at all that he lacks courage - he is never hesitant to put his body in harms way in attack. But his footwork is often poor. He goes too high and he has a bad habit of just trying to steal the ball instead of making the tackle. His defence, and for that matter his work at the breakdown, is tentative and uncertain. All of these things are fixable.
 
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Blob

Guest
You guys who are comparing him to Carlos are dreaming.

1. Carlos could control tests in a traditional way. He just decided not to a lot of the time. Nobody knows why.
2. Carlos' problems were not of the crumbling under pressure variety. They were of the trying too much freaky shit variety.
3. Carlos could tackle.
 
Sully

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
I think Quade is already a fantastic player. Very few players are considered great at 23 but the fact that you guys have posted 10 pages on him shows he has some kind of X factor.
 
Dam0

Dam0

Dave Cowper (27)
Lets give Quade a few years before we start discussing how he compares with people who are long retired.

He is the sort of player that should probably have not been rushed into test football this early, give him a few years to mature and blossom (and chill the #$%@ out!). Unfortunately for Australian rugby there isn't a great deal of choice.
 
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proton

Guest
Cooper will be a great player for Aussie in time. He just needs to develop a more structured appreciation of the game. I think he has been given too much leeway to be creative this season but he will be doing alot of learning over the summer and dont be surprised if he has a better focus for the Reds next year. I reckon they'll take it out again.
Quade will be 100% better next season.
 
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Mojoman

Guest
Lets have a look @ the "Great" Number 10's of our time, of their own respective countries, Stephen Larkham?- Definitely, Andrew Merhtens?-Mmm, yeah. Jonny Wilkinson?-Definitely, Dan Carter?-Definitely.

What do all these players have in common? They controlled the game well, conservative when it needed to be, they all run well when needed. Barring Larkham, who was freakishly talented with his running game, most dominated with the boot, both out of hand and goal kicking.

Somehow I don't think Cooper fits the mould. His very risky, flashy game is the anti-thesis of what a dominant, great, First five needs. If you shackle him by getting him to play a field position orientated, conservative game he loses the "X-factor" ability he brings.

At 23, it's early in Cooper's career, Carter was @ his best against the Lions 2005 @ 23. Even given that, I'm calling it early and saying Cooper will never be one of the "great" First five's. Entertaining - absolutely, Dangerous - definitely, Talented - outrageously, Great - nope.
 
MajorlyRagerly

MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
I actually thought the QC (Quade Cooper) of 2010 Wallaby fly half was pretty good in his decison making. Was solid most of the time & only chose to be spectacular when the timing was right.

When (not if) that QC (Quade Cooper) comes back, he'll be brilliant again. Not that I'm saying he's shit now, far from it. I just preferred last years version.
 
Sir Arthur Higgins

Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
As the emblem attached to me suggests, I am Canadian.
Before I moved to Australia 3 and a bit years ago, the only thing i'd heard of rugby league was that Lote Tuquri, Henry Paul, Wendell Sailor and Mat Rogers had all defected from it. I'd never seen a game of it before or knew that it was 'popular'.
Having come down here, I've seen it and find it to be the most boring sport I have ever had the displeasure of watching. It is a rubbish abomination of two great sports, in my opinion - rugby and american football. I'm not a massive american football fan - I don't like the stops and starts, the switch of defense and offense, nor do i like that for all intents and purposes that there is not a single decision maker in the team. But, I do appreciate the athleticism and the 'wow factor' of many of the plays. League is a shift union in the direction of NFL, but it stops half way and is some stunted version of the two games, perpetually stuck half way between two games that are significantly better and more popular.

On to the point of my post. Can someone explain this comment to me, because it makes no sense to me.
"Look, he is a rugby league player. He has that Benji Marshall-like instinct and rugby union is too structured for him. But no one would be queueing up to sign him."
I find union to be free flowing and each game constantly evolving to adapt to new and different circumstances. you literally play what is in front of you, but you use a vast array of skills, tools, pre-rehearsed plays, and team work to do so.
League is structured to the tits - it is just poorly structured. a structure makes a game predictable. League's structure is that you run it 5 times and if you haven't scored, you kick it. it is the same tactic every single time in every single game whether played in snow, rain or sunshine.
I do not understand how that comment above can be made.
 
louie

louie

Desmond Connor (43)
No he doesn't. But he did take the ARU for everything they had by threatening to walk to NRL. His manager is playing with fire i think.
 
Sir Arthur Higgins

Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
It was a foolish decision to play the ARU like that and then sign for 1 year. very short sighted of cooper and his management team. The ARU originallly were unwilling to sign him up for the big dough until he was proven against the all blacks and against the best. now he's had a very poor world cup and he's got his negotiations coming up soon. League don't want him for big bucks, so the ARU position is enhanced.

His management team is terrible. Poor kid is young and naive with a dash of immaturity. Similar to Sonny Bill and they're being taken for a ride by a couple of idiots in mundine and khoder.
 
Scotty

Scotty

David Codey (61)
MajorlyRagerly said:
I actually thought the QC (Quade Cooper) of 2010 Wallaby fly half was pretty good in his decison making. Was solid most of the time & only chose to be spectacular when the timing was right.

When (not if) that QC (Quade Cooper) comes back, he'll be brilliant again. Not that I'm saying he's shit now, far from it. I just preferred last years version.
Click to expand...

He has gotten worse since he has been defending at fullback for the wallabies, hasn't he?
 
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slasher

Guest
No matter what game plan you have if you
.. perform poorly in set piece,
.. be out enthused and dominated in contact
.. And play your attack behind the adv line etc etc
Your pushing shit uphill to be a team like the blacks...
On Cooper, Im not a huge fan of his as an international 10 at the moment but I appreciate his skill set. He played poorly but hats off to him as it would be bloody hard to perform on that stage when a whole country is in to you. Whether he deserved it for carrying on like a wanker well that's not for me to decide, I would hazard a guess he would change a couple of actions if he had the chance.
 
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