Brumbies 2011

[Gnostic]

I think you are forgetting this is Super Rugby.

Higginbotham is allowed to smash it up through the backs occasionally, and he will do it extraordinarily well.

Quade Cooper is a proven test star and will be playing inside of the hardest defender in the game.


I think the Brumbies will go alright, however, I don't think they know who is going to be in their starting 15 yet, and which of their younger players are going to be future long term stars. If the Brumbies do one thing right this season it will be playing Alexander at tighthead and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at outside centre.

I agree with Slim, Alexander will not play a game at THP for the Ponies. They do not have another LHP with any experience in the squad with JY out. I have not seen Ma'afu play at LHP and Palmer whilst he can play there it would do no good for the Brumbies to play both out of position. If they play Palmer at THP and ALexander's habit of packing with head below hips is fixed they will have a scrum to contend with.

Similarly in the second row a starting pair of Chis and Hand is very good for Super Rugby. but beyond the starting pair without Kimlin they do not have anybody really. Chapman can fill in but he is not a second rower.

APart from lack of depth at LHP and second row in the squad Friend has failed to ensure cover for the outside backs in the greater squad so the Ponies had better hope they have a magical run with injuries because one or two cold see their season pretty much over.

So IMO if the starters in those areas can stay fit the Ponies will challenge for a finals berth. one injury though and they are looking down the barrel.

 

[Slim 293]

I agree gnostic.

I think the Brumbies are building some good young backs for the future but injuries to a few players will cripple them this year.

Hopefully an extended season will see a few players rested at times.

 

[Moses]

Quade Cooper is a proven test star

It's proven he can't tackle

and will be playing inside of the hardest defender in the game.

Brian Lima is at the Reds?

 

[Newter]

Friend and Fisher before him have not done a great job with recruitment strategy to produce a better 2011 squad than what they have at the moment. If they do well this year, and I hope they do, it will not because of good medium and long term recruitment in the past, but in spite of it not being so.

They've recruited and developed a very good match day 22. It's a professional organisation, the Brumbies. I'm very impressed with their succession planning post Larkham et al. I mean, the way both Lealifaano and To'omua have come on as playmakers is a credit to their system. They haven't just imported Wallabies from elsewhere, they've patiently groomed good young talent over a few years. Laurie Fisher was no doubt a part of that.

 

[Gnostic]

It's proven he can't tackle


Brian Lima is at the Reds?

Touche.

 

[Brumby Jack]

The Brumbies have decided this year to reduce the number of players in the leadership group. Traditionally there were around 6 or so players but for 2011 they have reduced it to 3, comprising Stephen Hoiles, Rocky Elsom and Matt Giteau.
This is probably a result of having 'too many voices' around last year that probably undermined Hoiles' captaincy on and off the field to a degree. (Cue the joke about the Brumbies captain's meeting and Hoiles walks in...)After the Hurricanes loss it was evident that it was causing a problem.

The issue of who will be the captain for 2011 is still up in the air due to injuries to Hoiles and Elsom that will probably see both miss at least the opening round, if not more.

 

[barbarian]

Didn't Elsom get a bit shirty about the whole 'leadership group' arrangement as well?

I don't think the concept of leadership by a group works in rugby. It has been very successful in AFL, where the game is much more spread and no one player can provide leadeship across the park. But in Rugby it is possible and beneficial to have one strong leader who speaks to every single player, instead of a group of 5 or 6 all chipping in with their two cents.

 

[BrumbiesPolynesian]

Didn't Elsom get a bit shirty about the whole 'leadership group' arrangement as well?

I don't think the concept of leadership by a group works in rugby. It has been very successful in AFL, where the game is much more spread and no one player can provide leadeship across the park. But in Rugby it is possible and beneficial to have one strong leader who speaks to every single player, instead of a group of 5 or 6 all chipping in with their two cents.

I agree wth Barbarian, I dont think a leadership group does work in Rugby....I think one Captain and a Vice Captain and thats it...leadership group maybe for stuff off the field, or going through games plans with coaches...but as for on field stuff.....one voice.

 

[en_force_er]

Leadership groups work but you need a general Captain and Vice then give a couple of other players domain over facets of play, say set piece for example.

 

[Lee Grant]

Back in the day this consensus kind of thing worked for the Brumbies, but only because they had some unique senior players. Usually consensus doesn't work for organisations be they businesses, sporting teams or whatever.

There is nothing wrong with leadership groups outside of the decision process in organisations though. Thus in a sporting team there are activities such as training, game planning and discipline matters that are well dealt with by recognised leaders - but on the park one voice only should be heard. Whether it's right or wrong that one voice usually has better overall utility than several.

[One disclaimer is that there are some activities on the field such as the set pieces and the running of the backline that unit leaders have to take control of. For example: you don't want every lineout being approved by the skipper beforehand.]

The Brumbies will be better for the change.

 

[Ash]

Hoiles wouldn't be my choice of Brumbies captain - as a captain, you can't abuse the ref, or tell him what to after the event. I thought Hoiles stepped over the line a few times last year and was lucky he wasn't binned by the ref for what he said. I'll happily eat my words if Hoiles' is captain and his ref management - when things go against the Brumbies - is flawless, but I just don't think Hoiles has the temperament. Elsom would be a better choice, for starters.

Any reason on why Moore isn't considered a leadership proposition? He doesn't appear to be a natural leader, but he was close to Reds captaincy before leaving to the Brumbies, and if I recall correctly, he was Aus U21s captain as well. BTW, agree that retaining Moore is very key for the Ponies. For their sake, hope they do.

Lee - I tend to agree with you over the Brumbies' recruitment from Fisher and Friend. I agree that their success will be despite of their recruitment, instead of because of their recruitment. Especially with too much depth in some areas, and no depth in others.

One recruitment I like is Dan Palmer. I think he is a great technical scrummager, and agree he could add some real starch at THP. Could do with some more work around the park, but not at the expense of his scrummaging. Moore + Palmer at 2 and 3 has the potential of a strong combination in Super rugby. If you consider Alexander a LHP only then Palmer is a sensible recruitment. If you consider Alexander a THP, and remember that he was the starting Wallaby THP at the time, then it's an interesting recruitment.

I am honestly not sure where the Brumbies will finish. I am very uncertain on their roster - to such a level that they could possibly be close to the top Aussie side, or the possibly be close to the bottom one (especially with a few unfortunate injuries). Where I am worried is that I didn't like what Friend did with the team last year.

 

[en_force_er]

If I was the Brumbies I'd be starting Palmer but probably give him no more then 35-40 minutes.

The Brumbies have some terrific Prop talent with Alexander, Maafu and Palmer with Owen in the stable (Jerry is injured). But none of these fellows are what we could call dominant scrummagers (bar Palmer). Allow Palmer to take on the opposition scrum early then sub on another prop and his fresh legs will prove advantageous at scrum time regardless of the opponent.

EDIT: I'm aware this is a tangent but just a thought.

 

[Lee Grant]

EDIT: I'm aware this is a tangent but just a thought.

It's not as funny as you might think N4cer. Take a prop off early for strategic purposes and you can always use him again if another prop is injured - or "injured". The Cheetahs props feigned injury all the time and it wasn't always because they wanted to slow play down. And if a team has a hooker who can also play prop there could be more than one fake injury from props.

 

[Wallaby Way]

Friend and Caputo were quoted last year saying that Alexander would only be considered at LHP.

http://www.superxv.com/news/super15_rugby_news.asp?id=28007

 

[Lee Grant]

Yeah - it was an obvious comment then and an obvious situation now - both for the Brumbies and the Wallabies. The sooner Deans and Co. are forced to realise that Alexander is not a good scrummaging THP and that he has to practise more at LHP, the better.

 

[Brumby Jack]

So it's confirmed that Rocky Elsom will miss at least the first 4 rounds of 2011 due to his hamstring injury. A comeback in round 5 will be the Waratahs game.
With Hoiles also battling to be fit for round 1, the Brumbies are likely to give Mitchell Chapman, Colby Fainga'a, Julian Salvi and Michael Hooper a chance at starting backrow positions.
Peter Kimlin is also in contention but could be a bit behind after his knee injury.

 

[Slim 293]

I think they'll need Kimlin on the bench with minimal match time and work his way up until he's 100%

Looks like the Brumbies will keep up their tradition of a late charge to the finals...

 

[TOCC]

thats a blow not having Elsom.. So did he take the option for surgery on his hamstrings?

 

[en_force_er]

Salvi at 8 would appear to be the only non-academy option.

Isn't having to play other back row positions one of the reasons he left?

 

[Empire]

You can't miss the picture of Henry Vanderglas in the Canberra times today. Why not use him as short term cover? Is there anything stopping a short term contract?

He is an out and out 6, has played s14 and international 7"s. His form in London before the injury was great..and he is obviously still around the brumbies set up.