Breakaway English, French, Saffa super rugby plans

[Blue]

Timing could be difficult as our main test series is different to the NH. I can't see that SA will be able to have their cake and eat it too.

Whatever cake it is, Aus and NZ will be happily muching away. You can be sure of that.

 

[waratahjesus]

when you see the breakdown of numbers and teams you really have to question why the South Africans arnt dominate at international and club level. Raises more questions about there coaching and mindset than it does about australias.

 

[Brisbok]

when you see the breakdown of numbers and teams you really have to question why the South Africans arnt dominate at international and club level. Raises more questions about there coaching and mindset than it does about australias.

You're right, it does raise a lot of questions. Although let's not forget that there are other non-rugby related factors that have a considerable influence on the performance of South African rugby teams on the international stage.

Also, without knowing much about it at all, I would be interested to know how much money from SARU, the ARU and NZRU goes into the grass roots development in their respective countries and how this funding is spread over the respective participants (ie. $ spent per participating player).

 

[DPK]

Also, without knowing much about it at all, I would be interested to know how much money from SARU, the ARU and NZRU goes into the grass roots development in their respective countries and how this funding is spread over the respective participants (ie. $ spent per participating player).

I'll just take a wild guess and say that South Africa's will be lower...

 

[PaarlBok]

when you see the breakdown of numbers and teams you really have to question why the South Africans arnt dominate at international and club level. Raises more questions about there coaching and mindset than it does about australias.

I'll give you the qouta system in our rugby. Imagen the Wallabies had to pick 10 whites, 4 blacks and one escimo where they will end.

 

[PaarlBok]

These deals are quite secure though because it's unlikely that SARU will appoint anyone with business acumen and/or brains in the near future...

I'll give you this man.
Jurie Roux

Jurie is and Paarl Gym old boy and put Maties into the club it was a few years ago, he also did a bit at WPRU and is one of the biggest workers to make the Varsity Cup it is today.

His profile

Roux selected as new SARU CEO
July 31 - Jurie Roux, the senior director of finances and asset management at Stellenbosch University, was chosen as the new CEO of the South African Rugby Union at a meeting of the organisation’s General Council in Cape Town on Friday. Roux’s appointment is expected to be confirmed shortly following the conclusion of contract negotiations. The General Council accepted the recommendation of an independent interview panel.

Roux, 39, has considerable experience of rugby administration and is currently vice-president of the Western Province Rugby Union, a director of the board of Western Province Rugby (Pty) Ltd, chairman of the Stellenbosch University Rugby Football Club and chairman of the Varsity Cup (Pty) Ltd. He is a former Maties fullback.

“An exhaustive process of assessments and interviews was undertaken to identify a high-calibre short list of five from an original list of 84 applicants,” said Mr Oregan Hoskins, president of SARU.

“To preserve the integrity of the process the name of the preferred candidate was known only to the independent interview panel until today’s General Council.

“All of the candidates were subject to a rigorous set of interviews and assessments to identify the best individual. We cast the net wide to ensure we found a CEO with the necessary skills to not only lead a sporting organisation but also a large scale and successful business.

“Jurie has a wealth of experience in rugby as well as proven business acumen and we’re looking forward to his taking operational leadership of the organisation and completing the process of restructuring following the dissolving of SA Rugby (Pty) Ltd into SARU.

“SARU would like to thank our consultants and the interview panel for their diligence and for identifying the best individual to take on this challenging and very important role.

“We expect to tie-up the contractual details shortly after which the appointment will be confirmed,” said Mr Hoskins.

Roux said: “I regard this role as the pinnacle for any professional involved in South African sport. It has major challenges but also many stimulating opportunities.”

The independent interview panel was chaired by Mr Raymond Fenner, a partner with Alpha Milliard Chartered Accountants Inc, and also included Mr Trevor Munday, a director of several companies and representative of the lead sponsors, Ayanda Mjekula, a banker by profession and current CEO of SASDA (South African Supplier Development Agency) and Arness Siame, human resources practitioner and managing consultant of SIARTE Consult.

The committee was assisted by Mr Francois Wilbers, managing director of Work Dynamics, who render industrial psychological services, and a director of PE Corporate Services.

Roux is expected to take up the position on September 1.

Issued by SARU Communications

Trust me he have an open line to Saracens biggest stakeholder, the Ruperts. Co Incodent that Saracens will play their first SA rugby match on Newlands

Sport24

CT Stadium to host Saracens
2011-11-10 06:30Email | Print

SA rugby museum is homeless Hines quits international rugby EP confirm Kennedy departure Cape Town - The Cape Town Stadium is expected to be announced as the venue for the Heineken Cup clash between Saracens and Biarritz.

Saracens announced last month they will play a home pool stage clash against Biarritz in Cape Town on January 14, but did not reveal which ground the match will be played at.

However, according to Die Burger it is a foregone conclusion that the game will be played at the Cape Town Stadium and not Newlands Rugby Stadium. The announcement will be made on Thursday.

Recently retired Bok captain John Smit joined Saracens after the World Cup in New Zealand and could be in action alongside several other Springboks currently plying their trade with the English club. It will be the first time that a Heineken Cup game will be hosted outside of Europe.

Saracens' CEO, Edward Griffiths, said the club is proud to be associated with so many South Africans. "Saracens is a club with a strong South African flavour due to Johann Rupert's (South African businessman) shares in the club and the 12 South African players here," said Griffiths, himself a South African.

"It makes sense for us to grow our support and commercial interests in South Africa. We want South Africans to view us as their favourite club."

All we as Saffers need to do now is to go out in our numbers and support Sarries at Newlands.

 

[PaarlBok]

Back to this "size of SA rugby supporter base thing.

How big is it really? My gut was saying "Can't be that much bigger can it? They play a lot of soccer, there are a lot of prople who wouldn't care less about the game" - so I did some homework.

SA has a population of 50,000,000 people made up along these lines, according to Wikipedia:

79.5% Black
9.0% White
9.0% Coloured
2.5% Asian

I'm not thinking that rural, impoverished, black South Africans are getting along to a lot of games are they? Lets keep looking.

According to the IRB South Africa has 434,219 registered players broken down into: 157,980 pre-teen males; 121,879 teen males; 143,722 senior males (total male players 423,581); 1,653 pre-teen females; 5,504 teen females; 3,481 senior females (total female players 10,638).

In 2009, IRB figures show there are just over 38,000 registered adult rugby union players in Australia, of which the states of New South Wales and Queensland account for 82.3% of all senior players.

Wait, what?


In Australia -

Registered players
86,952 (total)
41,049 (adult)
Clubs - 770

In South Africa (these numbers from the same wikipedia article are different) -


Registered players

632,184 (total)
118,120(adult)
198,175(Teen)
315,889 (Pre-teen)

Clubs - 1453


Thats TWICE the clubs and nearly THREE TIMES the adult players.

(I suspect that we're not comparing apples with apples on the teen and pre-teen numbers so just ignore those.)

Even if these numbers are rubbery, it's clear that the Rugby Scene in SA is much bigger than in Australia.

(NZ by the way -


Registered players

137,835 (total)
28,288 (adults)

Clubs - 595

This tells me that NZ has a MUCH higher proportion of junior player engagement to select their small number of aduly players from than we do)

The only differense is that SA's biggest proportion of players aint registrerd, they are schoolboy players. IN SA biggest rugby schools have nearly 40 rugby teams in Prymary and High school. In my area we have 4 rugby schools in a radius of 30 kms. Thats just the big schools , in Boland all schools have rugby as a sport making the small Boland province the biggest rugby province in clubs and numbers. Do a doos like myself want to see this proud rugby province have to go down the drain because of a stupid S100 competition, not a vok.

 

[light]

I'll give you the qouta system in our rugby. Imagen the Wallabies had to pick 10 whites, 4 blacks and one escimo where they will end.

Pocock, Elsom, Moore, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), McCabe, Horwill, Vickerman, Barnes, Cooper, Alexander
Beale, Samo, Genia, Ioane
Eskimo - O'Connor

I think we do already

 

[whatty]

Pocock, Elsom, Moore, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), McCabe, Horwill, Vickerman, Barnes, Cooper, Alexander
Beale, Samo, Genia, Ioane
Eskimo - O'Connor

I think we do already

Are those your best 15?

 

[PaarlBok]

Reality is from an NZ perspective is that we need the SA money.

I am pretty sure NZ have a lot more to gain with a Springbok rugby tour including a test series. That old school rugby tours not only will draw more spectators to the tests but also have the extra benefit of draw a lot of attention for local smaller provinces playing against the dirt trackers who also deliver their Springbok/All Blacks legend players in the past. Cant compare their value to the current state of S15 rugby nor 3 Nation tests.

 

[PaarlBok]

I cant wait to see WP playing against Munster at Thomo Park or Newlands. Me and my Ierse broer will have to watch that from a losie with enough refreshments.

 

[PaarlBok]

If we play north our teams can easily fly out on a thursday and return on the saturday/sunday night. The same benefit Aus and NZ teams have playing against each other or SA provinces playing CC rugby against one another. It will also give the SA selectors the oppertunity to see our NH base Bokke playing in the same competitions as our local lot.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Are those your best 15?

Good enough to beat your lot twice in the Tri-Nations and bundle you out of the RWC even after we let you make all the running.

 

[PaarlBok]

Good enough to beat your lot twice in the Tri-Nations and bundle you out of the RWC even after we let you make all the running.

I put the blame on the flippen Escimos in both teams.

 

[Brisbok]

I put the blame on the flippen Escimos in both teams.

Agreed. We may need to take a closer look at his family tree to confirm that he is in fact part eskimo, otherwise they would be in violation of their quota agreement. Julia Gillard and the Labor Government may then need to intervene and put pressure on the coaching staff to find a full or half cast eskimo and select him in the team!

...do you Australians see what you are missing out on here?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I put the blame on the flippen Escimos in both teams.

Blame whoever you want. Facts are facts. Our current team is better than yours. All with our meager 87,000 players.

 

[Brisbok]

Blame whoever you want. Facts are facts. Our current team is better than yours. All with our meager 87,000 players.

You may have missed the sarcasm along the way Serious Sam.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

You may have missed the sarcasm along the way Serious Sam.

Yes, I got the sarcasm. Notice the smilie at the end of my last comment. It's called stirring the pot.

 

[Lee Grant]

I'll give you the qouta system in our rugby. Imagen the Wallabies had to pick 10 whites, 4 blacks and one escimo where they will end.

We'd have trouble with the Eskimo, but if we had to pick brown/black players then Beale, Cooper, Samo, Genia, Palu, TPN and Kepu would go OK. I'd be eligible too, but I've lost all my speed.

Is the quota system still in place officially - or unofficially?

I'd like to have the same number of players that the RSA, France and England have and the number of professional teams England and France have, and the semi-professional teams all three have - English Championship, French Pro D2 etc and SAffer Currie Cup and Vodacom (though the Pro D2 is fully pro and 3rd Div is semi pro.)

Having said that I see the point of the whingeing of the SAffers about the revenue split, and the need, official or not, to select "quota" players. One sees the point of the political party in power requesting quotas, but a nice compromise would be to have quotas apply at the Currie/Vodacom Cup level and not to test rugby.

 

[PaarlBok]

We'd have trouble with the Eskimo, but if we had to pick brown/black players then Beale, Cooper, Samo, Genia, Palu, TPN and Kepu would go OK. I'd be eligible too, but I've lost all my speed.

Is the quota system still in place officially - or unofficially?

I'd like to have the same number of players that the RSA, France and England have and the number of professional teams England and France have, and the semi-professional teams all three have - English Championship, French Pro D2 etc and SAffer Currie Cup and Vodacom (though the Pro D2 is fully pro and 3rd Div is semi pro.)

Having said that I see the point of the whingeing of the SAffers about the revenue split, and the need, official or not, to select "quota" players. One sees the point of the political party in power requesting quotas, but a nice compromise would be to have quotas apply at the Currie/Vodacom Cup level and not to test rugby.

At Bok level its unofficial. The politicans also dont want it on paper, but let them pick an all white sports team and they'll be all over the sport body in two ticks.

Myself have a kid playing provincial sport and I have heard some thrillers from other parents attending the Nationals.

I hate this in our sport and see it nothing less then apartheid in reverse mode. Its now been 20 years and trying to explain this to a 20 year and younger kid is nothing less then a nightmare.

There is only one way and thats merit like we have at schools level. I am sure any of our top schools will beat their provincial side with ease in most sports. In our field hockey trials we had 5 players with colour and 4 had to be in the sqaud while we had over a 100 white kids. Just try to figure the coach had to spread his players because they had to play a certain amount of minutes in the Nationals. Two teams was sacked due to not enough quotas in their team or coaching staff.