Blues v NSW Waratahs @ Auckland - 2011R09

[Langthorne]

I wasn't expecting the Tahs to win this one, and at the beginning of the season I suggested that (as far as possible) the fringe players be given a crack. It turns out a few did, although I don't think it was due to some kind of grand plan on the part of the Waratah management.

There were many disappointing things in the match, but there were two that pissed me right off:

1. down 31-7, penalty awarded close to the Blues' line after a period of sustained pressure - and Dean Mumm throws the ball to Beale for a low % shot a goal. Even if it went over it would have been a mistake.

2. In saving a try, Toeava made first (and continued) contact with the head of Turner, which is why Turner was wincing. The otherwise excellent Lawrence didn't do squat (although maybe he should have been given the call from one of his so called assistants).

The Blues were great in the first half and made the Waratahs look worse than they were - essentially the Blues took full advantage of a hand full of Waratahs mistakes, and a bit of a lack of pace in the centres.

There were a few good performances, and again quite a few good dominant passages of play, sadly not enough (again).

For all my positive remarks, there were so many times during that match where I said "I bet they fuck this up"...and of course they did.

 

[Richo]

1. down 31-7, penalty awarded close to the Blues' line after a period of sustained pressure - and Dean Mumm throws the ball to Beale for a low % shot a goal. Even if it went over it would have been a mistake.

It looked to me like Beale gave Mumm the biggest "what the fuck?" look imaginable. Anyone else spot that?

 

[fatprop]

I wasn't so concerned, there was plenty of time and you need to get the scoreboard ticking to build some momentum

 

[qwerty51]

Watched it again this morning and there were a few more positives than first thought imo.

After all we were missing Waugh, Carter, Berrick, Palu, Horne, Pakalani. One of the Blues tries in the first halve was a complete fuck up by Turner, he also completely bombed a try in the second. Kept the Blues scoreless in the second and Beales shocking kicks would've really made the score very close. The front row were awesome all game and it was generally the centre defense that let the Blues through with ease which was to be expected with Halanghu and Cross pairing.. I think we look pretty good with ball in hand and are showing some patience for once. I have good hopes when our backline players return. Goal kicking is still a major issue. David Dennis was great in contact all night, played like Kaino.

 

[Groucho]

Watched it again this morning and there were a few more positives than first thought imo.

After all we were missing Waugh, Carter, Berrick, Palu, Horne, Pakalani. One of the Blues tries in the first halve was a complete fuck up by Turner, he also completely bombed a try in the second. Kept the Blues scoreless in the second and Beales shocking kicks would've really made the score very close. The front row were awesome all game and it was generally the centre defense that let the Blues through with ease which was to be expected with Halanghu and Cross pairing.. I think we look pretty good with ball in hand and are showing some patience for once. I have good hopes when our backline players return. Goal kicking is still a major issue. David Dennis was great in contact all night, played like Kaino.

Dennis plays well every time he comes on. He has a real dynamism with the ball in hand that our other forwards seem to lack.

 

[qwerty51]

Dennis plays well every time he comes on. He has a real dynamism with the ball in hand that our other forwards seem to lack.

I really think either he or Mowen should play lock and so we can fit Mowen and Palu in our back row. I'd be looking to get rid of Mumm but that will never happen. Anyone else notice the way Mumm takes the ball up? Puts his hand out and tries to dodge contact, jogs into the defense because he focuses on body position too much. Just run your hardest at the line mate!!

 

[Torn Hammy]

We should not let the second half cloud the fact that in the first half the Tahs were totally smashed by the Blues brutal physicality across the park. The Blues aggressive defence and hard running overwhelmed the disorganised and meek Tahs. The backline contest looked like the U10's taking on the U12's. It wasn't a lack of effort, they were completely outclassed.

To me there is huge void between the Academy and the S15 team that needs to be addressed in the context of inevitable injuries.

 

[GC]

It wouldn't help with the lineouts, but I reckon the Tahs would be far better off with Dennis in and Douglas out when Cliffy's back. Douglas is having a shocker of a year. He was great last year and unlucky to be overlooked for Simmons for the Wobs. This year the difference between the two is huge.

Dennis couldn't be too much shorter than Brad Thorn I'd imagine, so it's possible to have a sub-2m lock and still compete in the lineouts.

TPN should be captain in Waugh's absence too.

 

[qwerty51]

Mowen's one of the best lineout stealers in the comp, Gnostic said before he played lock for Randwick and had a shocker but maybe he should get another go

 

[Jnor]

I'm all for TPN as back up capt and I think mumm in there as captain now is a big part of the Tahs problems, but we really need someone whos not likely to be crocked such a high percentage of the time. Who that is I dont know, but I think they definitely missed TC this week too.

As an aside, anyone else notice Mealamu wearing headgear at one point? Has he looked in a mirror? Is he trying to maintain one cauliflowered ear that looks like Elvis or something? So many questions...

 

[qwerty51]

Mowen if not TPN

 

[Henry]

I think even the ref was shocked and did a double take when Mumm opted for the points. Why is Mumm captain, hes not even captain of Uni... It was baffling and had me yelling at the tv. Anyone notice Mitchell talking to the team a Mumm was being interviewed post game, it looked like everyone was listening.

In the first half the Blues forwards just dominated the breakdown and we really had no answer. At least in the second they showed some dignity. Too many kicks from all the backs when we just needed to retain the pill and make it meter by meter to their line. We we showed, we could actually score. But we seemed very obsessed with just giving the ball straight back to them...

 

[matty_k]

Anyone notice Mitchell talking to the team a Mumm was being interviewed post game, it looked like everyone was listening.

Is there a major issue having a winger as captain? Maybe it will let Mumm focus on his own game.

 

[cyclopath]

Is there a major issue having a winger as captain? Maybe it will let Mumm focus on his own game.

The argument is always that they are too far from the action to captain. If we can have a 13 doing it well enough (Mortlock, Umaga, O'Driscoll, Slack...) I don't see why a winger couldn't. I don't think Mitchell is particularly well suited to it, by the way, but not because he's a winger.

 

[Chauncey]

A question....

How could Turner NOT score that try from that position????
Reverse the scenario ..... it's Rene Ranger running at the line from 3 metres out and Turner is coming across to stop him. Do you think Ranger would be stopped cold like Turner was???? Not a chance, it would be a try without any shadow of a doubt- that is the difference. There is a complete lack of physicality to this Waratah side.

Look at the way Auckland walked straight past our ball every time we went to ground. Our forwards stood around watching while 3 Blues forwards continually took the ball of us at the ruck.

What is with the one off hit ups??? Have these guys heard of passing to support players. Watch the Blues for some tips!!!

Scrum was the ONLY strong point.

 

[matty_k]

Do you think Ranger would be stopped cold like Turner was????

I thought Turner lost the ball whilst sliding forward and still made it over the line. That it was all about ball retention. I'm going to have to watch it again.

 

[James Buchanan]

I wasn't so concerned, there was plenty of time and you need to get the scoreboard ticking to build some momentum

I'm inclined to agree. Sometimes its better to go for points, keep the scoreboard moving and get the boys tails up. Also, most times when you are further than 22m out, going for points is a good option. You're likely to get the ball back from a 22m, and you get another stab at the line anyway.

Also, if you go for a lineout and don't get the try its more dispiriting. I'm reminded of the Rebels v Chiefs game this year. The Rebels doggedly went for lineout/scrum for several penalties in order to get the try they wanted. If they'd kicked all of those, the game would have actually been a LOT closer than it ended up being.

 

[qwerty51]

Turner should've stepped inside. It's almost impossible to tackle a player that steps inside and it would've been under the posts.

Turner's a class finisher, he just had a shocker of a day.

 

[Richo]

I'm inclined to agree. Sometimes its better to go for points, keep the scoreboard moving and get the boys tails up. Also, most times when you are further than 22m out, going for points is a good option. You're likely to get the ball back from a 22m, and you get another stab at the line anyway.

Also, if you go for a lineout and don't get the try its more dispiriting. I'm reminded of the Rebels v Chiefs game this year. The Rebels doggedly went for lineout/scrum for several penalties in order to get the try they wanted. If they'd kicked all of those, the game would have actually been a LOT closer than it ended up being.

Except that the Tahs needed something that proved they could win the game. Cutting the lead to three converted tried still leaves you down three converted tries. Needed more at that point to make a win possible.

 

[James Buchanan]

Whether its appropriate to go for goals or tries is in my opinion, a factor of time more than score.

If it is late in the game, yes you go for tries. If you have more than 20 minutes on the clock, I'd be inclined to say, go for points and try to build confidence. As I mentioned, going for points is rarely a bad option as you will likely get possession back from a 22 if it fails or a kickoff if it succeeds. If anything, going for tries does less to build confidence in a team's ability to win the game because it *is* a desperation ploy. It is (as I mentioned before) even worse if it does not succeed.

There are of course other reasons to go for the corner. If you have a particularly dominant lineout and forward pack or a particularly bad goal kicker, you need to play to your strengths and away from your weaknesses. But, all things being equal, tactically penalty goals are almost always the best option.