Bledisloe IV 2010 Hong Kong

[Slim 293]

I laugh how people say he has scored a few tries off some good work from others.... I think some people underestimate how hard it is to find a winger who knows where to put himself in a position of receiving the ball and secondly, having the ability to actually put themselves in that a spot.

We have guys who can do this... who are better than JOC (James O'Connor)... but...

He just has to figure out where to put himself in defence...

 

[Slim 293]

"not quick enough" is a pretty poor claim to make. He used very good pace off the mark to put Rocky in for a try in the Bloem game, and used some decent pace scoring in Sydney.

He has had hiccups under the high ball, but so have Mitchell and Beale. You paint the picture like "There is no chance he will catch the high ball under any circumstances" which is simply false.

His defence (thanks Jnor) has perhaps let in a try in games this year, but not "2-3".

He was also chased down by a forward when he had a head start... Gerrard has never been forgiven for being tackled by McCaw back in 2006 under more forgiving circumstances...

How many tries have the All Blacks scored on JOC (James O'Connor)'s wing this year?

We have better wingers and should be playing them... not an inside centre come fullback who offers less in attack, can't catch a high ball and is a defensive turnstile...

 

[#1?]

Seems to be general agreement on positions 1-12 (less 11). Plenty of discussion on 11, 13, and 14. Think Gilbert Beale now owns #15.

I like Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and JOC (James O'Connor) to start with Turner as fresh legs on the bench. Barnes to cover the rest of the Back positions from the bench.

 

[waratahjesus]

Seems to be general agreement on positions 1-12 (less 11). Plenty of discussion on 11, 13, and 14. Think Gilbert Beale now owns #15.

I like Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and JOC (James O'Connor) to start with Turner as fresh legs on the bench. Barnes to cover the rest of the Back positions from the bench.

if AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) starts, JOC (James O'Connor) should be a bench player, he can cover most of the backline and his quick feet are better at the tail end of a game than in the early exchanges. start turner as a specialist then bring JOC (James O'Connor) in when he can make a difference.

 

[ChargerWA]

And I would disagree on agreement at 12. Plenty of people would prefer to see Berrick there.

 

[dobduff11]

JOC (James O'Connor) is my favourite player and although he is doing fairly well at wing he is a 12 and should be used there in the warm up matches and maybe come on at 12 against italy. Turner mitchell digby and hynes are all more comfortable on the wing.

I don't think he is playing badly at wing its just not his position and he should not be played there. The calls for JOC (James O'Connor) being slow are stupid he is one of the quickest wallabies over 10,20 and 40m.

"He was also chased down by a forward when he had a head start"- btw slim, kankowski one of the quickest back row forwards in the game had the momentum on JOC (James O'Connor) not the other way around. Cj van der linde could catch ngwenya if he had momentum to start with.

 

[Reddy!]

Wingers should be Mitchell Turner or Mitchel Hynes with J'OC getting pumped up on the bench.

I would like to see Hynes have another chance to show his stuff for the Wallabies before Davies gets a shot - how quickly people forget that Hynes was the undisputed best Aussie fullback of the Super 14 this year.

Rod Davies will show his wares in the 2 midweek games.

 

[cyclopath]

Wingers should be Mitchell Turner or Mitchel Hynes with J'OC getting pumped up on the bench.

I would like to see Hynes have another chance to show his stuff for the Wallabies before Davies gets a shot - how quickly people forget that Hynes was the undisputed best Aussie fullback of the Super 14 this year.

Rod Davies will show his wares in the 2 midweek games.

When was the unanimous poll published?

 

[qwerty51]

Wingers should be Mitchell Turner or Mitchel Hynes with J'OC getting pumped up on the bench.

I would like to see Hynes have another chance to show his stuff for the Wallabies before Davies gets a shot - how quickly people forget that Hynes was the undisputed best Aussie fullback of the Super 14 this year.

Rod Davies will show his wares in the 2 midweek games.

Ahem, Kurtley Beale? I know he only played about half the game there but those games he was twice as good as the next to make up for it.

 

[#1?]

Seems to be general agreement on positions 1-12 (less 11). Plenty of discussion on 11, 13, and 14. Think Gilbert Beale now owns #15.

I like Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and JOC (James O'Connor) to start with Turner as fresh legs on the bench. Barnes to cover the rest of the Back positions from the bench.

By general agreement, I mean that most seem to think Deans has settled on his 1-12 and 15 run on positions. The most contentions position seems to be #12. Gits seems to be unable to be dropped at 12 and the John Eales medal count seems to reinforce Gits mortgage in the run on squad.

 

[TOCC]

We have guys who can do this... who are better than JOC (James O'Connor)... but...

He just has to figure out where to put himself in defence...

He is without qusestion the best wallaby winger at positional play in attack..

and name a Australian winger who hasn't been caught out in defence, it's bound to happen, JOC (James O'Connor) has done something which no Australian winger has done in a while, which is play with consistency.

 

[chief]

I certainly think Peter Hynes should not be overlooked. He played some fantastic Rugby this year at fullback. People will talk about Kurtley Beale, and his rise. I'm sorry, but I still think Hynes is better than Beale. It will be proved on this Spring Tour. Hynes was quite clearly the best Australian fullback in the S14. Yes the best. Beale has found consistency and its great to see it. Rookie of the year is certainly fitting for him as well.

I still think Hynes' game and style at Fullback is exactly what the Wallabies need. A fullback who backs himself, and that's exactly what he does. No hesitations to do so, he's a confronting winger, with some very good defense. I love the competition for Beale and Hynes at fullback, and we shouldn't declare the fullback position secured for Kurtley, as Hynes and Beale are different players with different game.

 

[cyclopath]

I agree they should both be in contention. Both good players with their positives and negatives.
I disagree that either was "clearly" better than the other, or that anything was undisputed.

 

[TOCC]

Hynes doesn't have the kicking or playmaking attributes which Beale has though, yes hynes backs himself but he also tends to get a bit of tunnel vision when running the ball back, if Hynes was in form then yes I think it would be a harder decision, but he has been out injured and hasn't played for a while, also Beale is just playing to good at the moment you would be silly to ignore him.

 

[Slim 293]

He is without qusestion the best wallaby winger at positional play in attack..

and name a Australian winger who hasn't been caught out in defence, it's bound to happen, JOC (James O'Connor) has done something which no Australian winger has done in a while, which is play with consistency.

Consistently average?

He's just not a winger, and should not be considered ahead of players such as Ioane, Mitchell, Turner, Davies or Hynes...

It's just mind boggling to think that he could seriously be considered ahead of players such as Mitchell and Turner based on form...

 

[qwerty51]

I certainly think Peter Hynes should not be overlooked. He played some fantastic Rugby this year at fullback. People will talk about Kurtley Beale, and his rise. I'm sorry, but I still think Hynes is better than Beale. It will be proved on this Spring Tour. Hynes was quite clearly the best Australian fullback in the S14. Yes the best. Beale has found consistency and its great to see it. Rookie of the year is certainly fitting for him as well.

I still think Hynes' game and style at Fullback is exactly what the Wallabies need. A fullback who backs himself, and that's exactly what he does. No hesitations to do so, he's a confronting winger, with some very good defense. I love the competition for Beale and Hynes at fullback, and we shouldn't declare the fullback position secured for Kurtley, as Hynes and Beale are different players with different game.

[video=youtube;eVKo6HI6nxM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVKo6HI6nxM[/video]
[video=youtube;6UDE_yO_d6o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UDE_yO_d6o[/video]
[video=youtube;xL6odia49y8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL6odia49y8[/video]

Can Hynes do any of what Beale does in these videos? I don't think so.

and name a Australian winger who hasn't been caught out in defence, it's bound to happen, JOC (James O'Connor) has done something which no Australian winger has done in a while, which is play with consistency.

What has Turner ever done wrong? JO'C is a rubbish winger, fine player however.

 

[Ruggo]

Beale has to stay at fullback. He has been the most promosing revelation this year. Hynes is more than worthy of Walaby selection. The simple fact is that He and Turner are very similar. Reds fans will tend to back Hynes and Tahs fans will tend to back Turner. Both are solid players known for reliability. JOC (James O'Connor) to keep his wing spot, Turner to get the other wing spot. Hynes to get the bench seat as he is so reliable and no matter what situation he is thrown into, he will be solid. We need those players to balance this side out. The backs will be covered well on the bench with Burgess, Barnes and Hynes. Would love to see Barnes at twelve but can't see it happening.

 

[RugbyReg]

Beale HAS to start. He was our best back this domestic series I reckon. By some margin, even considering the games he missed.

Hynes limped off training again. I fear we may not see much more of him on the international stage. In fact I am pretty sure I suggested that towards the end of his 'break out' year. I think he was the right man for the job then, but thought others would surpass him. I still believe this, although he is a valuable wider squad inclusion.

Turner and Davies would be my wing options with Drew on the bench.

 

[Lindommer]

Hynes limped off training again. I fear we may not see much more of him on the international stage.

Sad to hear. Hynes is exactly the sort of player we need to build up our depth, vg winger and an excellent player to have in contention for 15.

What's been wrong with Horne, Hynes and Ioane the last few years? If they have permanent physical problems why haven't they been sorted preseason? To be constantly injured speaks volumes for their Super strength & conditioning coaches.

 

[WB3]

Drew Mitchell has been a little inconsistent, but when he plays well I would have thought he is at LEAST one of our best 3 wingers. I am surprised at how little love he gets on the forum.

As for the JOC (James O'Connor) debate, TOCC may be going too far saying he is our best winger in attack. What I think is that he is outrageously talented but is playing in the wrong position. His long-term position is probably 12, though I could see him being a winger if he got some solid time there to develop. I would rather they played him at 12 in a game on this tour to see how the combination of Quade/JOC (James O'Connor) went in the midfield. Two of the most evasive blokes in world rugby playing right next to each other would have to be exciting. Also, JOC (James O'Connor) CAN tackle, despite what lots of people are saying. He is caught out positionally on the wing occasionally but his tackling skills are actually very good (evidence - he made some awesome one on one hits on forwards, including Matfield, in the 3N).
So, if I were to pick the best Wallaby 15 at the moment, although I really want to see him play I doubt I would select him on the wing. If I had a chance to throw him at 12 I would jump at it, though the Wobs seem to have a queue behind Giteau the unworthy that includes Barnes and Fainga'a, so I can't see Deans trying it anytime soon. A shame.