Bledisloe IV 2010 Hong Kong

[Gnostic]

I think AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) should stay at 13 no matter what. From here on in he should remain our 1st choice 13 until the RWC.

If Horne is fit (and can stay that way) and Chambers has a brilliant S15 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) may go to the bench as Mr Fix-it, he hasn't really seized his chances with both hands so to speak. He has been solid and reliable (as usual) but we haven't seen the dynamic drive in contact we had seen in previous years from him (and what we used to see from Morty). AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will need to be right on top of his game to hold those two named out. I would throw a smokey in as well who I feel could play all of them into the ground in Mitch Inman.

 

[Richo]

J'OC is an exceptionally talented player, but his defence is not good enough to play 12 outside Cooper. I don't see why he can't come off the bench -- he plays every back line position except 13 and is an incredible attacking weapon to let loose late in the game.

Why, Dingo, why?

 

[WB3]

Richo - I believe his defence IS good enough. He tackles well, but gets caught out positionally on the wing. I will maintain until (and potentially even despite) irrefutable evidence is provided to the contrary.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

If Horne is fit (and can stay that way) and Chambers has a brilliant S15 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) may go to the bench as Mr Fix-it, he hasn't really seized his chances with both hands so to speak. He has been solid and reliable (as usual) but we haven't seen the dynamic drive in contact we had seen in previous years from him (and what we used to see from Morty). AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will need to be right on top of his game to hold those two named out. I would throw a smokey in as well who I feel could play all of them into the ground in Mitch Inman.

I think 13 is our problem position 12 months out from the RWC. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) obviously has the inside running at present, due to being the only decent outside centre we have who is actually fit. If he plays the house down in Europe this spring, then he should have the inside running for the RWC. However, if he is merely solid, then I would like to see the selection of that position to be thrown open and whoever has the best S15 gets the nod for the abbreviated 3N next year. It's one of those positions that you don't want to be chopping and changing too much, as its pivotal on defence and the key link to the back three. My already stated preference is for AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to be our starting centre, but if Rob Horne were to have a big domestic campaign next year, I'd be happy with that too. Horne's problem is his durability and its a real strength of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s, so it will be interesting to observe.

 

[Richo]

Richo - I believe his defence IS good enough. He tackles well, but gets caught out positionally on the wing. I will maintain until (and potentially even despite) irrefutable evidence is provided to the contrary.

You may well be right about his tackling technique, but he doesn't have the size or play-reading ability of Barnes in defence. I like the QC (Quade Cooper)-Barnes combo a lot more than a QC (Quade Cooper)-JOC (James O'Connor) one because their games complement one another more. All that said, I'd love to see JOC (James O'Connor) gets some minutes at 12 in the mid-weekers because he could have a very big future there for the Wallabies.

 

[Richo]

TBH -- what about Diggers at 13?

 

[fatprop]

I don't quite agree with that list fp, but as Gnostic said, you need balance. Ioane is what you might call a winger / centre. Suggests you need a winger / fullback for the other wing.

So:
Ioane / Davies on one wing
Mitchell / Turner on the other.

I like Hynes more as a 15 than a wing, if he is playing. Not too interested in JOC (James O'Connor).

Hynes, Mitchell & Turner are 2nd 15s - each is safe under a kick and effective. Hynes has the best brain and positioning

Digby is the best broken field runner who isn't a dwarf, Mitchell is the second best, then Hynes - everyone fit it is Digby and Mitchell for me, both find the tryline run at gaps and can beat defenders

Davies may be a good player, but at the moment he is totally unproven at test level, I would prefer to see him enjoy the tour, play in the A games and get some bench time in one of the tests. Just like Beale did last year.

 

[Gnostic]

I think 13 is our problem position 12 months out from the RWC. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) obviously has the inside running at present, due to being the only decent outside centre we have who is actually fit. If he plays the house down in Europe this spring, then he should have the inside running for the RWC. However, if he is merely solid, then I would like to see the selection of that position to be thrown open and whoever has the best S15 gets the nod for the abbreviated 3N next year. It's one of those positions that you don't want to be chopping and changing too much, as its pivotal on defence and the key link to the back three. My already stated preference is for AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to be our starting centre, but if Rob Horne were to have a big domestic campaign next year, I'd be happy with that too. Horne's problem is his durability and its a real strength of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s, so it will be interesting to observe.

Agree Totally Hornet. You also have to decide what sort of play you want from the 13. Morty/Herbert direct hard running which AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) used to do (just not so much this year) or Little type pace/footwork which I see as Horne & Chambers (also Turinui I would like to know what he did to Link who basically saw him of from the Tahs and the Reds). The key as you say will be Horne's fitness. I threw Inman in there as this year in his first real hit out in Super Rugby I thought he was a standout out for the Force especially when you consider he was hamstrung with Harris at 10 for a large part of the season. He could make an irrefutable claim in next year's Super Rugby series (though we all know that form means little to Deans).

 

[Jnor]

I'm starting to think that part of the problem with rugby in Australia is that all we ever talk about is backs.

I know our back row appears to be set for the EOYT but for me there's a few questions over the second row (can still see RD picking Mumm) and I'm v interested to see how Benny A goes, assuming he gets his starting spot back...

PS Inman seems to have great potential. And he's a unit too - about 108kg if I recall correctly

 

[Richo]

Turinui got fat, didn't he?

 

[Gnostic]

Turinui got fat, didn't he?

Have a look at his game for the Reds this year against the Cheats (sorry Crusaders) and the try he set up for Davies to show off his pace. He was very solid in defence and again showed he had one of the best Rugby brains in Oz. But then he wasn't seen even on the bench for the rest of the year. Maybe he killed Link's dog or something?

At the Tahs Link put him on the wing to mark Habana at his peak, everyone knew what was coming and three tries later Turinui was finished at the Tahs. What I don't understand is why that was Turinui's fault, he had never played wing at senior level and he was set to mark the best winger in the world (at the time). That was the worst single mistake that Link ever made at the Tahs.

 

[Gnostic]

I'm starting to think that part of the problem with rugby in Australia is that all we ever talk about is backs.

I know our back row appears to be set for the EOYT but for me there's a few questions over the second row (can still see RD picking Mumm) and I'm v interested to see how Benny A goes, assuming he gets his starting spot back...

PS Inman seems to have great potential. And he's a unit too - about 108kg if I recall correctly

:lmao: The same whinge everyone has whenever any backline position is discussed.

Fact is that every forward position has been discussed at length. LHP is Robinson's Hooker is Moore and THP is Alexander. IMO none of those selected in the squad are fit back-up for internationals.
Second Row only Sharpe has demonstrated enough this year to warrant selection, Chisholm and Mumm could have been left at home and Douglas at least taken. The backrow is set yet Brown still makes the squad and there are more 6's disguised at 2nd rowers than any other position. What more do you want to discuss?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Diggers at 13 is a worthy thought and he did very well there for the Reds. The thing to ponder though is that Chambers is currently ahead of him in that position and in general I'd rather see a guy play in S15 the position for which he is being considered for the test team.

Inman looks a very useful prospect, but its too early for him I feel.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

You also have to decide what sort of play you want from the 13. Morty/Herbert direct hard running which AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) used to do (just not so much this year) or Little type pace/footwork which I see as Horne & Chambers (also Turinui I would like to know what he did to Link who basically saw him of from the Tahs and the Reds).

Yeah and that also plays into the style you want from your 12, at least in my opinion anyway. I'm not a fan of two centres with the exact same style, as I tend to like one of them to be a ball playing distributor kind of bloke and the other to be the straighten up and put the hurt on in defence guy. There are good arguments to be made either way as to which of them plays 12 or 13, but I think the complimentary skillsets are important.

 

[fatprop]

I would have no problem with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Chambers or Horne at 13 or if he shows he is back, the evil wizard Mr Mortlock

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Morts would be fantastic, but I think he crested that hill some time last year.

 

[DPK]

Morts would be fantastic, but I think he crested that hill some time last year.

At the moment, Morty's last hurrah was the game against the Barbarians. He was a wrecking machine of old in that game.

 

[WB3]

You may well be right about his tackling technique, but he doesn't have the size or play-reading ability of Barnes in defence. I like the QC (Quade Cooper)-Barnes combo a lot more than a QC (Quade Cooper)-JOC (James O'Connor) one because their games complement one another more. All that said, I'd love to see JOC (James O'Connor) gets some minutes at 12 in the mid-weekers because he could have a very big future there for the Wallabies.

I would love to see Cooper/Barnes, having a steady player outside Cooper would be great and their combo has worked very well for the Wallabies when given a chance.
If JOC (James O'Connor) got some time at 12 in the mid-weekers I would be thrilled, I believe it is his long-term position and he would be devastating. Even if he doesn't get there for a year or two, that is where I want to see him eventually. Immediately, however, maybe you are right and Barnes is the best option.

PS I would happily make Giteau 3rd option behind JOC (James O'Connor) on form, though that is VERY unlikely to ever be the case.

 

[TOCC]

think im going to have to swear off this thread for the rest of the week, the conversation seems to be going round in circles

 

[cyclopath]

think im going to have to swear off this thread for the rest of the week, the conversation seems to be going round in circles

THAT never happens around here. Now where's that Robbie Deans thread?