Australian Schoolboys & National Championship 2010

[lily]

Why the bitterness?
There are two parts to rugby, the centres are required to tackle as well.
who would you have selected to defend @ 12 today?
If you can nominate a stronger defender, with better hands than Apo on the tour, then and only then could it be the coaches fault.

they all made mistakes defensively but why is there no criticism of the flyhalf? For me alot of the lapses were in his channel. Or maybe were the backrowers not breaking early enough which would point to a lack of communication between the half, openside and inside backs as well as the No 8. When a lineout goes to shit more often than not the thrower is blamed. Again in their defence why is the lifter nor the jumpers ever put under scrutiny by the public?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

.....
When a lineout goes to shit more often than not the thrower is blamed. Again in their defence why is the lifter nor the jumpers ever put under scrutiny by the public?

I think it is only piggies or ex piggies who understand that it generally takes a team effort to lose a lineout. Plenty of good throws from Hookers go unrewarded due to Lifters, and Jumpers not performing. The Hooker (thrower) is a constant. Jumpers and lifters vary depending on the call.

Much easier for the punters to remember the simple things. 1 Lineout was lost. 2. Hooker was the thrower.
Remembering who the jumpers and lifters were who didn't perform actually required the punters to decipher the call and understand where the throw was actually to. TV does not give us this luxuary, therefore the easy path is to simply blame the Hooker.

 

[I like to watch]

Lily, I think you will find the criticism of the centres is agenda based.
A review of who missed who, shows that most missed tackles were closer to the ruck.
If one was to play the blame game, one might mention one individual that has been universally acclaimed on this forum.
The one difference between the sides was that we committed more numbers to the breakdown all day. as a consequence they were lining up outside the 10 giving him options, and in D they were in the line all day putting pressure on our ball player & runners.

 

[baldingwingforward]

I think it is only piggies or ex piggies who understand that it generally takes a team effort to lose a lineout. Plenty of good throws from Hookers go unrewarded due to Lifters, and Jumpers not performing. The Hooker (thrower) is a constant. Jumpers and lifters vary depending on the call.

Much easier for the punters to remember the simple things. 1 Lineout was lost. 2. Hooker was the thrower.
Remembering who the jumpers and lifters were who didn't perform actually required the punters to decipher the call and understand where the throw was actually to. TV does not give us this luxuary, therefore the easy path is to simply blame the Hooker.

All fair points .... But Roach was struggling with not straights. The throw he consistently misses/not straights is the back ball - so where did the Aussies keep calling.?! Front or middle ball might not be as good attacking ball but its often easier to win especially if your thrower is struggling and its windy! Often these kids aren't coached how to play %age rugby when the game is tight.

 

[NorthernSon]

Bronze Boot Awards: vive la différence.

Others obviously have different criteria to me.

MaGahan played well for the Darkness but thought #9 Perenara, #23 Lowe, #6 Sopoaga also could have got the gong.

For the Boys in Gold, I had Browning and Cummings and Holland ahead of Donlan, with Killingworth, and Cusack deserving.

Awesome performance from all the team, and look forward to seeing them filter up through the ranks to Semi-Pro and Pro levels.

Hmmm Hugh,
I have finally found a post from you that I can concur with fully.

After watching the game twice now here are my game rankings /10, noting the bold astrix on certain players note that have clearly demonstrated that they have the attributes for an extended career in the code at the next level in the near future.

Some of the others now need to seriously consider a career past schoolboy rugby, frame their jumpers and be resigned to the fact that they were certainly exposed for not having what was required to play beyond 1st grade colts.

1 Gary NEUGEBAUER Hale School WA - 6 Hope you enjoyed the food on tour
2 Hugh ROACH Newington College NSW - 7.5 Toiled all day played above his weight and should have remained on the pitch
3 Guy MILLAR The Kings School NSW - 7.5 *****Solid in all aspects of play and scrummaging was exceptional against bigger opposition
4 Curtis BROWNING Brisbane State High School QLD - 9 ***** Man of the Match, uncompromising and hard as nails
5 Steve CUMMINS (c) The Hills Sports High School NSW - 8.5 ***** Outstanding leadership
6 Tom CUSACK Marist College Canberra ACT - 7.5 Deserving and very effective with limited opportunities
7 Boyd KILLINGWORTH The Kings School NSW - 8 ***** A true work horse that should have probably been at 7 for Kings
8 Michael WELLS St Ignatius College NSW - 5.5 - As predicted a flop in physical contests
9 Tim DONLAN St Ignatius' College NSW - 6.5 - no significant contribution and passing was slow
10 Dion TAUMATA Keebra Park High School QLD - 7 - good skills but a little too predictable with ball in hand
11 Chris FEAUAI-SAUTIA Brisbane State High School QLD - 7 - Entertaining and solid finisher destined for 7's
12 Apolosi LATUNIPULU Newington College NSW - 7 - Tried hard but a couple of defensive lapses costly
13 Malietoa HINGANO St Augustine's College NSW - 7 - Ditto Apo
14 Walter PETAIA Brisbane State High School QLD - 6- Should have handed his jumper to Crook much earlier
15 Lewis HOLLAND St Edmund’s College ACT - 8 - *****Great reading of the play and an excitement machine
16 Jed GILLESPIE The Kings School NSW - 5 - Ineffective with chance
17 Maile NGAUAMO Ipswich Grammar School QLD - 4 - Must have enjoyed the buffet food
18 Philip KITE St Josephs College Nudgee QLD - 4 - Minimal contribution
19 Sam REISER St Joseph’s Gregory Terrace QLD - 4- Sang the anthem well
20 Tom CONNOR The Kings School NSW - 4- Too small and slow, lucky he didnt develop piles on the tour with all th etime on the bench
21 Clinton DALE McKillop College ACT - 4 - Minimal contribution
22 Ed WYLIE The Kings School NSW - 5 - Should have come on at 1/2 time
23 Lindsay CROOK The Southport School QLD - 7.5 - Should have started bad call by the selectors

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Roach played OK during the game although lineout throws have replaced hooking for the ball at scrum time as the actual contest for the Hooker. Hookers nowdays seldom miss a strike from illegally fed scrum ball, therefore the variable in the hookers game is their lineout throws. Tightheads have become a rare commodity.

Lineout losses are the new tighthead. I counted two lineouts over the back that we missed. Not sure it was entirely Hugh's fault but the Darkness got good advantage from both of those lost lineouts. He seemed to have received the ire from the coaches, as he was replaced almost immediately after the 2nd lost lineout.

I am not even sure that there were more than four successful scrums in the game. Most ended in a PK or a FK before the #9 fed the scrum.

Lineout throws require absolute precision from hookers.

Not entirely surprised that whoever was calling the lineouts (suspect Cummings) didn't go for the % play and called another "down the back" call after we stuffed one up. You can not expect an 18 yr old to think tactics like a 28 year old, regardless of how many times the >28 year old coach may advise them during training sessions.

 

[I like to watch]

Hmmmmmm, NS you are clearly clueless.
You could have done those ratings before they went on tour,as they reflect your rantings over the past few months, and are biased preconceptions that do not represent many of the players performances.
Shame you are not a national Kiwi selector, they would never beat us again.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Hmmm Hugh,
I have finally found a post from you that I can concur with fully....

I'm flattered. At least someone agrees with me. A rare occurrence in the Jarse household.

Keep meaning to get foxtel IQ or recording DVD, so have had to rely on memory for my recount of the game. Would have loved to have had a second go through the tape before I shot my mouth off too much, but WTF I believe in first impressions (or at least that is my excuse).

 

[rugbyfan]

Hmmm Hugh,
I have finally found a post from you that I can concur with fully.

After watching the game twice now here are my game rankings /10, noting the bold astrix on certain players note that have clearly demonstrated that they have the attributes for an extended career in the code at the next level in the near future.

Some of the others now need to seriously consider a career past schoolboy rugby, frame their jumpers and be resigned to the fact that they were certainly exposed for not having what was required to play beyond 1st grade colts.

1 Gary NEUGEBAUER Hale School WA - 6 Hope you enjoyed the food on tour
- Thought he played extremely well and was one of the better forwards
3 Guy MILLAR The Kings School NSW - 7.5 *****Solid in all aspects of play and scrummaging was exceptional against bigger opposition
- Lineout lifts were explosive, but thats all - seemed to die down in the scrums and didnt contribute much to general field play
12 Apolosi LATUNIPULU Newington College NSW - 7 - Tried hard but a couple of defensive lapses costly
- magnificent try-saving tackle
13 Malietoa HINGANO St Augustine's College NSW - 7 -
- must have stolen the ball 4 times, extremely quick to get back to his feet and also not get isolated
18 Philip KITE St Josephs College Nudgee QLD - 4 - Minimal contribution
- Maximum contribution, all you could hear the commentator saying was 'KITE WITH ANOTHER RUN", did all he could in a beaten pack

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Anyway - that's the end of schoolboy rugby.

The end of school boy rugby games for this year only.

You are new here, as am I, but you will soon know that full time in a game is only an excuse for Gaggers to start their wanging* on in earnest.

In Gaggerland, wanging on finishes several days after the referee blows the whistle for full time.

We are up to one further page of comments and there is time for more comment yet before this little thread dies off. It has generated over 950 posts so far and > 76000 views since Lee opened it in June this year. Pretty good effort I reckon.



* wanging

"Need more wanging on?" (G&GR Blog front page)

wanging
Present participle of wang.

wang (plural wangs)
(onomatopoeia) The sound made when a hollow metal object is struck a glancing blow.

 

[Spewn]

Hmmm Hugh,
I have finally found a post from you that I can concur with fully.

After watching the game twice now here are my game rankings /10, noting the bold astrix on certain players note that have clearly demonstrated that they have the attributes for an extended career in the code at the next level in the near future.

Some of the others now need to seriously consider a career past schoolboy rugby, frame their jumpers and be resigned to the fact that they were certainly exposed for not having what was required to play beyond 1st grade colts.

1 Gary NEUGEBAUER Hale School WA - 6 Hope you enjoyed the food on tour
2 Hugh ROACH Newington College NSW - 7.5 Toiled all day played above his weight and should have remained on the pitch
3 Guy MILLAR The Kings School NSW - 7.5 *****Solid in all aspects of play and scrummaging was exceptional against bigger opposition
4 Curtis BROWNING Brisbane State High School QLD - 9 ***** Man of the Match, uncompromising and hard as nails
5 Steve CUMMINS (c) The Hills Sports High School NSW - 8.5 ***** Outstanding leadership
6 Tom CUSACK Marist College Canberra ACT - 7.5 Deserving and very effective with limited opportunities
7 Boyd KILLINGWORTH The Kings School NSW - 8 ***** A true work horse that should have probably been at 7 for Kings
8 Michael WELLS St Ignatius College NSW - 5.5 - As predicted a flop in physical contests
9 Tim DONLAN St Ignatius' College NSW - 6.5 - no significant contribution and passing was slow
10 Dion TAUMATA Keebra Park High School QLD - 7 - good skills but a little too predictable with ball in hand
11 Chris FEAUAI-SAUTIA Brisbane State High School QLD - 7 - Entertaining and solid finisher destined for 7's
12 Apolosi LATUNIPULU Newington College NSW - 7 - Tried hard but a couple of defensive lapses costly
13 Malietoa HINGANO St Augustine's College NSW - 7 - Ditto Apo
14 Walter PETAIA Brisbane State High School QLD - 6- Should have handed his jumper to Crook much earlier
15 Lewis HOLLAND St Edmund’s College ACT - 8 - *****Great reading of the play and an excitement machine
16 Jed GILLESPIE The Kings School NSW - 5 - Ineffective with chance
17 Maile NGAUAMO Ipswich Grammar School QLD - 4 - Must have enjoyed the buffet food
18 Philip KITE St Josephs College Nudgee QLD - 4 - Minimal contribution
19 Sam REISER St Joseph’s Gregory Terrace QLD - 4- Sang the anthem well
20 Tom CONNOR The Kings School NSW - 4- Too small and slow, lucky he didnt develop piles on the tour with all th etime on the bench
21 Clinton DALE McKillop College ACT - 4 - Minimal contribution
22 Ed WYLIE The Kings School NSW - 5 - Should have come on at 1/2 time
23 Lindsay CROOK The Southport School QLD - 7.5 - Should have started bad call by the selectors

Northern
I haven't agreed with a lot of your posts but I do agree with some of your comments. I think a bit harsh on the props. At least the replacements were good in attack. I think you might have overrated Killingworth. He tried his guts out but he is very limited. Your mark for Wells is still too high at 5.5. Can I suggest someone knows someone to account for the selection. I too was extremely surprised at how small Connor looked but Gill did not look huge either last year. I reflected on Taumata again after watching the match again. I think your 7 is very generous. Otherwise pretty accurate.

 

[qwerty51]

I thought Killingworth was great.

 

[tranquility]

I just watched the replay myself, and it was very interesting viewing because it was the first time I had seen many of these players after having heard alot through the forum.

Few stray observations, I expected Apo to have a shocker based on the posts but in a tough match I actually don't think he had a bad game. Sure, he hogged the pill no doubt, but the backline wasn't functioning well at all and he got the ball over the advantage line almost every carry. However the 13 was hopeless, his tackling technique was woeful and he was invisible in attack, it baffles ans astounds me how Sautia could not be picked at 13. His try was nothing short of electric and it shows what he is capable of when given time and space. Petaia was pretty average as well I thought.

The big surprise for me was Taumata, I have heard so much on here about his ability but he was downright awful. His midfield kicking was poorly aimed, but atleast well connected. However his defense technique was bad, which can be fixed but what concerned me is that he was so uncommitted in defense which is an attitude thing and is alot harder to be fixed. He also offered very little with ball in hand and merely shuffled the ball across the backline. I have no idea what all the fuss is about and would be more than happy for another academy to pick him up. However I am sure he is better than this one game, and that he will bounce back well and truly.

4,5,6 all worked very hard and held the forward pack together with Roach and Killingsworth. Roach's throwing is a disaster, fullstop.

Donlan looks a decent prospect, but it is a joke that he was awarded the bronze. All in all a reasonably dogged performance from the Australians, but the Kiwis deserved it in my opinion.

The outside for them (Lowe) as mentioned earlier, looks a super talent.

 

[Rothschild]

Lily, I think you will find the criticism of the centres is agenda based.
If one was to play the blame game, one might mention one individual that has been universally acclaimed on this forum..

A very carlessly worded statement.
For one who watched all but the 2 games in samoa, I can say from personal knowledge that the reason the backline did not function was purely that no one outside of the 312 got any chances whatsoever. From the first game of the series in Sydney it was apparent.
The forwards - there is no blame there - they played exceptionally well particularly in that final game against NZ and I think to the surprise of most of the Aussie spectators following the tour put us into a position were we actually could have won that game.
There is no agenda - the reallity is the ball stopped at 12 and the defence at 12 and 13 in that game was found to be lacking and that is where the NZ backs managed to get well and truly across the gain line. They then set a better platform than we did for the phase play. Whenever our #12 hit it up (read every time) he actually did so in complete disregard to called moves and consequently there was little or no support as everyone was expecting a completely different outcome from the play.
Please, do not blame our backrowers, they were exceptional.

 

[Informer]

There is no agenda - the reallity is the ball stopped at 12 and the defence at 12 and 13 in that game was found to be lacking and that is where the NZ backs managed to get well and truly across the gain line. They then set a better platform than we did for the phase play. Whenever our #12 hit it up (read every time) he actually did so in complete disregard to called moves and consequently there was little or no support as everyone was expecting a completely different outcome from the play.
Please, do not blame our backrowers, they were exceptional.[/QUOTE]

While I only watched the game on the box your observations and mine are exactly the same. There is no agenda on my part as I know Apo and his family well and they are wonderful people but there is no denying play fell down when the ball got to him and went no further. He is too good a player and will get over this with good coaching but you would have thought 4 years with NTS would have gone some way to avoiding this issue in the first place. Mali is good with ball in hand but on the few times he got the bal he was under pressure and dropped the pill, while his defence was pretty average. Killingworth did a great job but is a 6 not a 7 and I can only assume was playing there as Conor was not up to the job. Donlan played well in general play but did have a few clearing kicks charged down, at least one of which the Kiws were unlucky not to score off. The replacement half from the ACT went well the little time he was on the field. I thought Duchesne was the replacement half, what happened to him? Roach was effective around the paddock but his throwing was poor, an issue that first came to light in the under 16 tournament in Nudgee. Presumably the Brumbies will work on this aspect of his game as he has plenty of potential otherwise. Taumati had a game that he will want to forget, aimless kicking, poor defence and slow distribution. I would have put Whylie on a lot earlier.

 

[Rothschild]

This will be my last comment on this as it has been done to death,
1. the way Apo played in ALL the games was NOT the way they trained,
2. There were many many more moves involving all the outside backs,
3. Apo's play in hitting it up alone was displayed in EVERY game, not just the final game,
4. I am pretty safe in saying that every time the ball happened to go wide it did not go through Apo's hands. That is certainly correct for the NZ test and I can't think of a circumstance in the other 6 games,
5. The coaching staff had more than ample time to remedy the situation. For the life of me I cannot understand why on earth nothing was conveyed to him during the games to change the style, again as there were other moves planned and he was disregarding set play calls.

It wasn't his fault. From what I have heard and learned it is his game - it's what gets him through week after week in his Sydney competition. He is the 'go to man'. However here he had some very competant players outside, we was no longer the go to man and he showed complete disregard for them and the team but again, the coaches allowed it to happen time after time after time. There were some puzzling selections and omissions but that's rugby. I and all the tour supporters just would have liked to see this full backline have a real go now and again. My son tells me one of the wingers received 5 passes in 7 games in non broken play.

Rant and comments on this tour over for me.

 

[NorthernSon]

Hmmmmmm, NS you are clearly clueless.
You could have done those ratings before they went on tour,as they reflect your rantings over the past few months, and are biased preconceptions that do not represent many of the players performances.
Shame you are not a national Kiwi selector, they would never beat us again.

Hmmm, Sorry no apologies I only have attempted to describe what I and any who watched the game saw in front of them. The boys highlighted in bold will do well and good luck to them, the others well good luck in colts and subbies.

 

[ikaletahi]

Hmmm Hugh,
I have finally found a post from you that I can concur with fully.

After watching the game twice now here are my game rankings /10, noting the bold astrix on certain players note that have clearly demonstrated that they have the attributes for an extended career in the code at the next level in the near future.

Some of the others now need to seriously consider a career past schoolboy rugby, frame their jumpers and be resigned to the fact that they were certainly exposed for not having what was required to play beyond 1st grade colts.

1 Gary NEUGEBAUER Hale School WA - 6 Hope you enjoyed the food on tour
2 Hugh ROACH Newington College NSW - 7.5 Toiled all day played above his weight and should have remained on the pitch
3 Guy MILLAR The Kings School NSW - 7.5 *****Solid in all aspects of play and scrummaging was exceptional against bigger opposition
4 Curtis BROWNING Brisbane State High School QLD - 9 ***** Man of the Match, uncompromising and hard as nails
5 Steve CUMMINS (c) The Hills Sports High School NSW - 8.5 ***** Outstanding leadership
6 Tom CUSACK Marist College Canberra ACT - 7.5 Deserving and very effective with limited opportunities
7 Boyd KILLINGWORTH The Kings School NSW - 8 ***** A true work horse that should have probably been at 7 for Kings
8 Michael WELLS St Ignatius College NSW - 5.5 - As predicted a flop in physical contests
9 Tim DONLAN St Ignatius' College NSW - 6.5 - no significant contribution and passing was slow
10 Dion TAUMATA Keebra Park High School QLD - 7 - good skills but a little too predictable with ball in hand
11 Chris FEAUAI-SAUTIA Brisbane State High School QLD - 7 - Entertaining and solid finisher destined for 7's
12 Apolosi LATUNIPULU Newington College NSW - 7 - Tried hard but a couple of defensive lapses costly
13 Malietoa HINGANO St Augustine's College NSW - 7 - Ditto Apo
14 Walter PETAIA Brisbane State High School QLD - 6- Should have handed his jumper to Crook much earlier
15 Lewis HOLLAND St Edmund’s College ACT - 8 - *****Great reading of the play and an excitement machine
16 Jed GILLESPIE The Kings School NSW - 5 - Ineffective with chance
17 Maile NGAUAMO Ipswich Grammar School QLD - 4 - Must have enjoyed the buffet food
18 Philip KITE St Josephs College Nudgee QLD - 4 - Minimal contribution
19 Sam REISER St Joseph’s Gregory Terrace QLD - 4- Sang the anthem well
20 Tom CONNOR The Kings School NSW - 4- Too small and slow, lucky he didnt develop piles on the tour with all th etime on the bench
21 Clinton DALE McKillop College ACT - 4 - Minimal contribution
22 Ed WYLIE The Kings School NSW - 5 - Should have come on at 1/2 time
23 Lindsay CROOK The Southport School QLD - 7.5 - Should have started bad call by the selectors

You have rocks in your head...I disagree with most of your ratings - some of your comments are just immature and disrespectful to the players involved...remember they are just KIDS...

 

[en_force_er]

NorthernSon, some of the ratings do seem quite short cited I mean even I sat back and said to myself, this Roach kid is a special one but it was obvious why he was subbed.

His lineout throwing was off and he was a piece of a very shakey scrum. If I was the Brumbies development team I'd be begging an English side to take him into their academy for a year and to nurture the parts of his game that need work. He would come back quite a product.

 

[PeterPiper]

I can see that NS is basing his judgements on what he saw in one game. He apparently doesn't rate sautia, crook or cusack, all three top of the s15 shopping lists.

It's a very dangerous path to lit your judgements on one game my friend.