Brumbies Guy
John Solomon (38)
In his defence, this was a game rating.... you should be basing it on just one game; the game you are giving the rating to!
Australian Schoolboys & National Championship 2010
- Thread starter Lee Grant
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In his defence, this was a game rating.... you should be basing it on just one game; the game you are giving the rating to!
C
Cando
Guest
Have watched Roach for 3 years on and off and have never seen him throw like that. There is more to that story for sure. Lets not forget here that Roach has been Aust Schoolboys hooker for 2 years so must be doing something right.
S
sportsfan
Guest
Lets not get too carried away. There were two v poor overthrows from Roach. There were two "not straight" against the NZ hooker in the first half, there was an overthrow from Maile when he replaced Roach and the replacement NZ hooker threw one straight to Sam Rieser at two when he came on.
Browning was solid at two and when the calls were changed to him, Roach hit him confidently and repeatedly. When Reiser came on into 2, Malie hit him easily as well.
The 6 ball is obviously a problem, the wind was blowing, it was the biggest game of their lives, the oppoistion was all over every jumper. The joy of tough competition!
On the much debated performance of our 12, I see that no one has pointed out that the outside backs were flat and static, with no changes of pace or angle. I suggest shovelling it out from 12 to a flat 13 brings no joy.
Someone else commented about a forward pass to Crook. Maybe if he was deeper and running onto the bal from depth the pass could have gone backwards. The effective running of Holland commenced from depth with speed and angle. Chris FS scored from a deep pass giving him time and space to work his particular magic. He most certainly should have been given more opportunities, but they only come from managing alignment and line speed.
Defensivly, the boys did well generally. Two holes inside resulted in two deep runs and 1 try from close support, but still required a super pass from McGahan as he fell and around the corner. The final try was numbers and lack of talk, and was a poor effort, one the boys will regret.
On the positive side, the pack stood up to a large and intimidating opposition, and yes there were a few shakey scrums, but equally they put pressure on the NZ pack when they concentrated and worked in close. I counted 3 FK's against aus for early engaement, 2 of which defied logic and slow motion replays. The Kiwis had 1 agaist them for the same offence which was equally confusing for all watching.
3 tries to 2, a willing and physical game played for the full 70 minutes with the full 23 from each side getting on the park says something good about Schools rugby. Well done to all. We should all be proud of the effort from 46 young men who gave their best and played their hearts out.
Browning was solid at two and when the calls were changed to him, Roach hit him confidently and repeatedly. When Reiser came on into 2, Malie hit him easily as well.
The 6 ball is obviously a problem, the wind was blowing, it was the biggest game of their lives, the oppoistion was all over every jumper. The joy of tough competition!
On the much debated performance of our 12, I see that no one has pointed out that the outside backs were flat and static, with no changes of pace or angle. I suggest shovelling it out from 12 to a flat 13 brings no joy.
Someone else commented about a forward pass to Crook. Maybe if he was deeper and running onto the bal from depth the pass could have gone backwards. The effective running of Holland commenced from depth with speed and angle. Chris FS scored from a deep pass giving him time and space to work his particular magic. He most certainly should have been given more opportunities, but they only come from managing alignment and line speed.
Defensivly, the boys did well generally. Two holes inside resulted in two deep runs and 1 try from close support, but still required a super pass from McGahan as he fell and around the corner. The final try was numbers and lack of talk, and was a poor effort, one the boys will regret.
On the positive side, the pack stood up to a large and intimidating opposition, and yes there were a few shakey scrums, but equally they put pressure on the NZ pack when they concentrated and worked in close. I counted 3 FK's against aus for early engaement, 2 of which defied logic and slow motion replays. The Kiwis had 1 agaist them for the same offence which was equally confusing for all watching.
3 tries to 2, a willing and physical game played for the full 70 minutes with the full 23 from each side getting on the park says something good about Schools rugby. Well done to all. We should all be proud of the effort from 46 young men who gave their best and played their hearts out.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
What is it about schools rugby that polarises us so much?
I can understand it at the level of individual schools; in fact it is expected; but this year the serves and returns of serves in this thread have been like at Wimbledon.
Months ago when we started talking about likely players to make the Sydney GPS team and the teams of other school groups in the country we had a fairly good idea of who would get in because the players play against each other week to week and had done so in previous years. There was a rough benchmark. Then when they played in their school group against other groups we had to recalibrate our opinions about some players, up and down, because of the way they performed against a higher class of player.
We had differing opinions about the selection of state teams, and let's not go there again, but those who saw the Oz Opens tournament would no doubt have recalibrated again. Players were better than they thought when measured against a higher benchmark - or not as good.
Then we, in Sydney, saw the two Oz Schools teams play 3 games at home, and though their opponents were not of the same standard as they were, we realised that some of our players were not performing as well as we thought they would. Some of the problems in the Ones were from playing in a brand new team, but others related to a backline that lacked sympathy for, and cohesion with, the individuals in it. We recalibrated yet again and hoped the problems would be fixed on tour.
Then came the final exam for the Aussie Schools team against the ultimate benchmark: playing against the Kiwis., and we had to recalibrate our opinion of them for the final time.
My final assessments are -
- The forwards did a lot better than expected, outside of the set pieces, which were often average and sometimes worse than that. But some of the never give up mongrel at the breakdown warmed the heart.
- The 9,10, 12,13 nexus never functioned well in the 3 games I saw the Ones play. The quality of the halves was about the average and nowhere near as good as in the great flyhalf years of Cooper, Beale, Leali'ifano and Lucas. Nor was there a To'omua, who came later than the Fab Four of 2005. The best players of the back three of Oz Schools 2010 were obviously top players, after Holland had an opening shocker at St. Marys, but they got too little ball, and one of those “best” was strangely on the bench yesterday.
Somebody asked on the forum weeks ago: who of the 2010 tranche of schoolboys may be Super players down the track, and I mentioned a few names but added that the jury would be out on the centres until we played the Kiwis. At some point I also warned that they may not play that well together because they were similar players. They didn't measure up in their sternest test against a higher benchmark even though, earlier in the season, they looked as good as any centres I had seen since Robbie Horne, who played both 12 and 13 at school. Nonetheless I am confident that they will both emerge as top senior players.
Let's all give the lads a big pat on the back. I am sure we will see a lot of them in professional rugby and I am equally as certain that we will see many 2010 schools players who didn't get to tour, including some who didn't make their state team – or even get picked for the Ones of their school group. Also, there will be others, like young Tahs' lock Kane Douglas, who was completely unknown as a schoolboy player.
Let's not write off the lads who didn't play well yesterday, or whenever during the year. Nor should we discount the likely future merit of lads who did not play yesterday. We have all seen guys overlooked for schools rep teams because they developed later, or were injured, or were wrongly omitted. There are too many examples of each to mention.
We shall definitely "watch this space."
I can understand it at the level of individual schools; in fact it is expected; but this year the serves and returns of serves in this thread have been like at Wimbledon.
Months ago when we started talking about likely players to make the Sydney GPS team and the teams of other school groups in the country we had a fairly good idea of who would get in because the players play against each other week to week and had done so in previous years. There was a rough benchmark. Then when they played in their school group against other groups we had to recalibrate our opinions about some players, up and down, because of the way they performed against a higher class of player.
We had differing opinions about the selection of state teams, and let's not go there again, but those who saw the Oz Opens tournament would no doubt have recalibrated again. Players were better than they thought when measured against a higher benchmark - or not as good.
Then we, in Sydney, saw the two Oz Schools teams play 3 games at home, and though their opponents were not of the same standard as they were, we realised that some of our players were not performing as well as we thought they would. Some of the problems in the Ones were from playing in a brand new team, but others related to a backline that lacked sympathy for, and cohesion with, the individuals in it. We recalibrated yet again and hoped the problems would be fixed on tour.
Then came the final exam for the Aussie Schools team against the ultimate benchmark: playing against the Kiwis., and we had to recalibrate our opinion of them for the final time.
My final assessments are -
- The forwards did a lot better than expected, outside of the set pieces, which were often average and sometimes worse than that. But some of the never give up mongrel at the breakdown warmed the heart.
- The 9,10, 12,13 nexus never functioned well in the 3 games I saw the Ones play. The quality of the halves was about the average and nowhere near as good as in the great flyhalf years of Cooper, Beale, Leali'ifano and Lucas. Nor was there a To'omua, who came later than the Fab Four of 2005. The best players of the back three of Oz Schools 2010 were obviously top players, after Holland had an opening shocker at St. Marys, but they got too little ball, and one of those “best” was strangely on the bench yesterday.
Somebody asked on the forum weeks ago: who of the 2010 tranche of schoolboys may be Super players down the track, and I mentioned a few names but added that the jury would be out on the centres until we played the Kiwis. At some point I also warned that they may not play that well together because they were similar players. They didn't measure up in their sternest test against a higher benchmark even though, earlier in the season, they looked as good as any centres I had seen since Robbie Horne, who played both 12 and 13 at school. Nonetheless I am confident that they will both emerge as top senior players.
Let's all give the lads a big pat on the back. I am sure we will see a lot of them in professional rugby and I am equally as certain that we will see many 2010 schools players who didn't get to tour, including some who didn't make their state team – or even get picked for the Ones of their school group. Also, there will be others, like young Tahs' lock Kane Douglas, who was completely unknown as a schoolboy player.
Let's not write off the lads who didn't play well yesterday, or whenever during the year. Nor should we discount the likely future merit of lads who did not play yesterday. We have all seen guys overlooked for schools rep teams because they developed later, or were injured, or were wrongly omitted. There are too many examples of each to mention.
We shall definitely "watch this space."
R
Rothschild
Guest
OK, one more shot.
Roach got subbed as there appeared to be a policy of all bench players to get a run and fair enough. It happened every game and in no way reflected the performance of those being replaced. Roach had a great tour. he could have been having the perfect game but he was always going to be subbed sometime.
Roach got subbed as there appeared to be a policy of all bench players to get a run and fair enough. It happened every game and in no way reflected the performance of those being replaced. Roach had a great tour. he could have been having the perfect game but he was always going to be subbed sometime.
Eyes and Ears
Bob Davidson (42)
Isn't the 8, Wells, back as well?
Spewn
Alex Ross (28)
Please no.
FTS
Billy Sheehan (19)
Don't think so?
D
DEER HUNTER
Guest
Poor old Apo (Manu's experiment)in the Kiwi game, the only one I have seen, could not and would not pass the ball. Sure in some cases he was under pressure, but more times he was not. Alot of the ball came form static, slow ball which doesnt help. Mali just didnt get the ball, a frustrating game for him. I noticed in the last stanza when the reserve halfback came on the OZ team started to go forward due to quicker ball out of the rucks. OZ forwards were great absolutely smashed the Kiwis at the breakdown. Curtis Browning man of the match for OZ. OZ lucky that the kiwi coach showed poor judgement to move their 13 to fullback, he was cutting the OZ backline up and I think the score would have been a lot more if he stayed at OC. All in all well done Aussies,
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
This player obviously has a future in Gold. Some of our backs have gone entire tests without passing a ball. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
N
NorthernSon
Guest
Hmmm,
I acknowledge that Coach Pat's policy was to give the bench an opportunity to participate in the main event of 2010, but I firmly believe the subbing of Roach & Killingworth did not really help our cause at all. When the pack started to move across the advantage line in the 2nd half the boys clawed back into the game but the momentum and chance of victory went out the window with some members of bench getting on the pitch to please the mum's and dad's. This was the pinnacle of Schoolboy rugby and sometimes you must put success ahead of equity.
The selection of Connor as a loose forward impact player ahead of Holloway had me baffled and indeed a minor contributing factor behind some terrible team missed tackles. It certainly looks like to NSW NTS centre combo must have avoided the defensive drills for the past 2 seasons and Hingano and Apo have a future if he can address the problem in the off season. Probably a good start would be to watch the tape although it may be a horror movie to them.
The non availability of Lunai meant that Cusack or Hollaway probably should have started at 8 as one of Manu's favourites in Well's really seagulled at critical times and the rest of the pack in particular Cusak and Killingworth carried him to half time. The Robbie Deans saying that "they may look like diamonds but under pressure if they crack you realise you have only crystal" unfortunately sits with the lad and although his doing another year of year 12 in 2011 at View , needs to be stamped NTA against physical opposition.
I understand my learned ratings of the game upset a couple of posters and I appreciate your devotion to your family and friends but a lot of my concerns about individual player weaknesses in combat encounters throughout 2010 were evident in this game and hence I feel somewhat justified in my predictions.
And Lee as always your on the mark " Let's not write off the lads who didn't play well yesterday, or whenever during the year. Nor should we discount the likely future merit of lads who did not play yesterday. We have all seen guys overlooked for schools rep teams because they developed later, or were injured, or were wrongly omitted.
Yep, he is back in 2011. doing pathways and is young enough under GPS regulations
Spewn
Alex Ross (28)
I'll say it again. NS, I don't always agree with you, but what you have said here is very good. The nonsense about 'they're only kids' so don't criticise misses the point - it is fundamentally a criticism of the system of selection, unfounded hype, politics, barrow pushing and downright stupidity.
Lee's final paragraph says it all.
T
tranquility
Guest
Tom Cusack is back for another crack? wow, he looks a very fine prospect. Im sure the Brumbies will be tying him up in ink before long.
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
You guys have probably seen this but thought I would show it to you, some highlights of the Aus v NZ match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1aADs7zro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1aADs7zro
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