Australian Rugby / RA
- Thread starter Dave Beat
- Start date
wamberal99
Jim Clark (26)
I think I would wait until the 2027 RWC before declaring the game dead and buried here.
I have said this before, but in an alternative universe where Covid did not kill our game for a few years, and particularly what would have been a hugely successful Irish tour, things would look a lot brighter.
Our game has an international dimension which the AFL and NRL can only dream about. We need fair winds and calm seas for the next four years and some creative innovations.
We can do it.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Dru
You know how much I argued for a national domestic competition.
But our key heartland areas are going or gone. Eastern suburbs of Sydney is now an AFL heartland, with Soccer gaining massive support, and still with South's n East's.
Around Eastwood or the Northern Districts in general it's Soccer, Western Sydney was lost to league sometime ago and is very weak.
Rugby's dominance in private schools is under huge pressure.
The lack of junior players and players with quality is alarming.
What's needed now is to try and hold existing structures in place and maybe build from there.
As for getting a NDC off the ground I just feel it's way way to late.
You know how much I argued for a national domestic competition.
But our key heartland areas are going or gone. Eastern suburbs of Sydney is now an AFL heartland, with Soccer gaining massive support, and still with South's n East's.
Around Eastwood or the Northern Districts in general it's Soccer, Western Sydney was lost to league sometime ago and is very weak.
Rugby's dominance in private schools is under huge pressure.
The lack of junior players and players with quality is alarming.
What's needed now is to try and hold existing structures in place and maybe build from there.
As for getting a NDC off the ground I just feel it's way way to late.
wamberal99
Jim Clark (26)
It's never too late. There are some very rich people who love the game. BTW the game almost died after WW2 and was only save by a couple of phenomenally successful inbound Fijian tours. World Rugby needs to get its act together and SIMPLIFY the Laws of the Game.
We are taking far greater steps to guard against brain damage. I predict that it is only a matter of time before the AFL is forced to change their game radically. Ditto the NRL.
Do not despair!
dru
David Wilson (68)
That is actually quite heart-warming, Wam. Thanks.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Easts and Randwick, throw Sydney Uni in there too, rugby clubs are thriving. I don't know of a kid in my circles playing AFL.
Not really under pressure at the boarding schools. The schools are modifying their intake, and there are less boarders, which means proportionally there are more kids playing soccer, but the rugby programs at the GPS & CAS schools are alive and well.
Certainly the code is dwindling, I don't dispute that. We have a once in lifetime golden 9 year opportunity to turn it around, which starts next week. Get behind it rather than look for flaws.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Hhhhhhhhmmmmmmm.
First I said it's to late IMO for a National Domestic Competition, not that rugby was about to disappear.
Re Eastern Sydney, in the early 2000's, the T have crowds often over 30 K.
The S had crowds around 10 to 12 K. Today it's kinda the other way around. Every pub in ES has the S on when playing.
The S have a huge following in the guy community in ES.
Rugby may still be holding its place but IMO AFL is more AFL heartland than Rugby.
Just my opinion but I think it's to late to establish a. NDC.
First I said it's to late IMO for a National Domestic Competition, not that rugby was about to disappear.
Re Eastern Sydney, in the early 2000's, the T have crowds often over 30 K.
The S had crowds around 10 to 12 K. Today it's kinda the other way around. Every pub in ES has the S on when playing.
The S have a huge following in the guy community in ES.
Rugby may still be holding its place but IMO AFL is more AFL heartland than Rugby.
Just my opinion but I think it's to late to establish a. NDC.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
I understand, you blokes need it clearly layed out for you.
So no more letters no more symbols.
Further I now understand from the above posts that rugby, is in the pink of health, with people everywhere wanting to invest in rugby. Additionally we have strong heartland areas with heaps of high quality youth.
We have no worries, all is sunshine, lolly pops, and sugar coated lemon drops.
So no more letters no more symbols.
Further I now understand from the above posts that rugby, is in the pink of health, with people everywhere wanting to invest in rugby. Additionally we have strong heartland areas with heaps of high quality youth.
We have no worries, all is sunshine, lolly pops, and sugar coated lemon drops.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Half, that was needlessly petulant
eastman
John Solomon (38)
This isn't (really) a personal stab - but KOB (aka Kings Old Boys) probably means a pretty certain 'circle'.
The game is being kept alive by a generation of old boys, who loved the game, and have encouraged their kids to play (who don't love it as much by the way). Outside of certain demographics, rugby union does not exist.
wamberal99
Jim Clark (26)
That's true, to some extent, about all sport. Some demographics put a higher value of educational achievement, they do not want their children "wasting" their time playing sport.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Well yes but I do know people other than those I went to school with. Also, half was specifically referencing AFL infiltrating the GPS schools. I thought about this afterwards and I actually do know one that plays in the SAFL and he’s the stepson of a school friend. Thats about it.
Interestingly the local U12s side won the grand final this weekend, there are some good rugby pedigrees in the team and also the son of a former NRL player.
Yes the game is at a low point, but it’s far from dead.
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half
Dick Tooth (41)
KOB, no one is suggesting the game is dead, in fact in some regional areas its bigger than league.
My initial post was its to late in my option to develop a National Domestic Competition, not that rugby was dead. We could as Flower & Pulver write one up in six months or less as they did with the "Nobody Really Cares" competitions. To develop a National Domestic Competition, requires developing a concept model and getting all key stakeholder groups to agree, and then implement. Then you need revenue, capital, non of which we have. The Silverlake investment I can't see being into a National Domestic Competition, without the above concept model and stakeholder agreements.
AS each year passes we have lost ground, as I see it. The Sydney Swans draw massive crowds from Eastern Sydney, and Easts & Souths Rugby League clubs have increased crowds and TV ratings. Yet back in the late 90's and early 2000's it was Rugby with the big crowds.
As for GPS & CAS schools, in CAS school the increase in soccer in particular and AFL is multi times from say 20 years ago. GPS are holding a little stronger but AFL [from a teacher at a GPS school] is growing a lot as is soccer. Rugby is still king but nowhere near as strong as it used to be.
Eastwood, Epping, Beecroft, Dundas, North Parramatta, used to be quite a strong area for junior rugby, in general the area had very strong ties to the Shute Shield. Today its a shadow of what it used to be. It was called a rugby heartland area, today is mostly soccer
The growth of Netball's national competition, coupled with expansion plans by the other three codes in AFL to 19 teams, NRL to 18 teams, and A-League to 16 teams, with two new teams expected soon to 14 teams, will add more pressure for sponsors and players.
To this add the Boomers, Opals, Diamonds national teams, recent growth in their national presence, all add pressure to Rugby National teams for recognition, then soccer with the Matilda's and Socceroo's. The change since say pre 2005 or say the last 18 years has been huge. Further these codes have massive player numbers.
Its not all doom and gloom, rugby still has a strong foothold and respected national teams. My point is a lack of action over the period 2000 to say 2020 is hurting us badly. Even with todays leadership team we are still slipping.
Were the new leadership team take us is hopefully north again. But as of today its to late to start a national Domestic Competition we simply don't have the resources needed or the will to create one.
My initial post was its to late in my option to develop a National Domestic Competition, not that rugby was dead. We could as Flower & Pulver write one up in six months or less as they did with the "Nobody Really Cares" competitions. To develop a National Domestic Competition, requires developing a concept model and getting all key stakeholder groups to agree, and then implement. Then you need revenue, capital, non of which we have. The Silverlake investment I can't see being into a National Domestic Competition, without the above concept model and stakeholder agreements.
AS each year passes we have lost ground, as I see it. The Sydney Swans draw massive crowds from Eastern Sydney, and Easts & Souths Rugby League clubs have increased crowds and TV ratings. Yet back in the late 90's and early 2000's it was Rugby with the big crowds.
As for GPS & CAS schools, in CAS school the increase in soccer in particular and AFL is multi times from say 20 years ago. GPS are holding a little stronger but AFL [from a teacher at a GPS school] is growing a lot as is soccer. Rugby is still king but nowhere near as strong as it used to be.
Eastwood, Epping, Beecroft, Dundas, North Parramatta, used to be quite a strong area for junior rugby, in general the area had very strong ties to the Shute Shield. Today its a shadow of what it used to be. It was called a rugby heartland area, today is mostly soccer
The growth of Netball's national competition, coupled with expansion plans by the other three codes in AFL to 19 teams, NRL to 18 teams, and A-League to 16 teams, with two new teams expected soon to 14 teams, will add more pressure for sponsors and players.
To this add the Boomers, Opals, Diamonds national teams, recent growth in their national presence, all add pressure to Rugby National teams for recognition, then soccer with the Matilda's and Socceroo's. The change since say pre 2005 or say the last 18 years has been huge. Further these codes have massive player numbers.
Its not all doom and gloom, rugby still has a strong foothold and respected national teams. My point is a lack of action over the period 2000 to say 2020 is hurting us badly. Even with todays leadership team we are still slipping.
Were the new leadership team take us is hopefully north again. But as of today its to late to start a national Domestic Competition we simply don't have the resources needed or the will to create one.
PhilClinton
Mark Loane (55)
What aspect of the ‘international dimension’ exactly makes us more appealing in 2023?
With the money these guys make in the NRL and AFL they can easily afford to spend 2 months in their offseason laying on a boat in Greece.
If the appeal is playing games against international opponents… I’m not sure the concept of going overseas to be smacked by 40pts by some frogs or boks would be high on the bucket list for many professional athletes.
Sorry for being so bleak. But I find the international appeal argument quite dull.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
You don’t see the appeal in traveling the world for your job with the future potential to earn significantly more overseas, living somewhere like Japan or the south of France, playing in front of full stadiums in other countries?
PhilClinton
Mark Loane (55)
French and Japanese rugby don't give a shit if you've played 100 games of Super Rugby or 50 games of NRL. If you're good enough, they'll sign you.
Also I get the feeling that isn't what Wam was implying by international dimension. If our only selling point is 'you can play rugby and go and play in Japan!!' how does that benefit Australian rugby?
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
I can’t imagine what appeal touring the world, and playing in major sporting events such as a World Cup, or a Lions tour would have on anyone…
The international element is not the be all and end all, but it is something the game can offer that the other domestic behemoths do not… an end of year vacation to Bali is not really comparable.
And how many former NRL players are earning big money in the Top 14?
It would seem the big Euros are being saved for former Australian rugby stars like Tom Staniforth, and Richie Arnold….
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