Australian Rugby / RA

[Derpus]

wow no need for the name calling mate. Thought this was forum to discuss our ideas and plans to move forward rugby in this country.

Where is rugby the most popular in this country? Which parts of the country have highest rugby participation rates?

Yeah I deleted it.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Angus Bell (22, NSW Waratahs, Hunters Hill Rugby Club, 23 Tests)*
David Porecki (30, NSW Waratahs, Seaforth Raiders, 14 Tests)*
Nick Frost (23, ACT Brumbies, Hornsby Lions, 12 Tests)
Lalakai Foketi (28, NSW Waratahs, Manly Roos, 5 Tests)*
Max Jorgensen (18, NSW Waratahs, Balmain Wolves, uncapped)*
Ben Donaldson (23, NSW Waratahs, Clovelly Eagles, 2 Tests)*
Josh Kemeny (24, Melbourne Rebels, Easts Rugby Club, 1 Test)*

over 70 per cent of the players from sydney played jnr rugby in the heartlands I talked about.

Tell me how I am an idiot?

*edit: players in the current world cup squad from sydney
forgot matt philip Matt Philip (29, Melbourne Rebels, Newport Juniors, 28 Tests)*

 

[LeCheese]

I am all ears for arguments against based on sound economic principles as to why it may not be feasible. But the vast majority of responses I'm hearing aren't that. It's just hand-waving whataboutism.

I'd hardly call it hand-waving whataboutism to point out that the proposed club-based competition would:
a) be a logistical shitstorm
b) disillusion and dilute existing fan bases of clubs, Super teams, and regional areas without representation
c) require a level of funding that is simply not attainable at this current point in time
d) not improve the quality of rugby played in Australia

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Proof that the fact the majority of the talent comes from areas i mentioned as heartlands.

 

[Derpus]

Angus Bell (22, NSW Waratahs, Hunters Hill Rugby Club, 23 Tests)*
David Porecki (30, NSW Waratahs, Seaforth Raiders, 14 Tests)*
Nick Frost (23, ACT Brumbies, Hornsby Lions, 12 Tests)
Lalakai Foketi (28, NSW Waratahs, Manly Roos, 5 Tests)*
Max Jorgensen (18, NSW Waratahs, Balmain Wolves, uncapped)*
Ben Donaldson (23, NSW Waratahs, Clovelly Eagles, 2 Tests)*
Josh Kemeny (24, Melbourne Rebels, Easts Rugby Club, 1 Test)*

over 70 per cent of the players from sydney played jnr rugby in the heartlands I talked about.

Tell me how I am an idiot?

*edit: players in the current world cup squad from sydney

I count seven players. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if that actually was 70% of the professional rugby players to come out of Sydney.

Yep. Lets turn an already diminishing fanbase into an even smaller one. How could that possibly fail to save Australian rugby.

 

[noscrumnolife]

In terms of playing and population base, the countries we most resemble are France, England and South Africa.

France & England both have promotion-relegation leagues. English clubs are going bankrupt not because of the model they are under, but because the RFU tried to grow beyond their means. The model is evidently financially appealing because PE money continues to flow into the competition (unlike Australia, where we were just turned down by PE). South Africa recognised that Super Rugby did not suit them (as it does not suit us), broke away and let their best players go to Europe.

I'd hardly call it hand-waving whataboutism to point out that the proposed club-based competition would:
a) be a logistical shitstorm
b) disillusion and dilute existing fan bases of clubs, Super teams, and regional areas without representation
c) require a level of funding that is simply not attainable at this current point in time
d) not improve the quality of rugby played in Australia

Obviously the logistics are not going to be worked out on a few pages on GAGR. That doesn't mean they can't be worked through. We already have disillusion and dilution in the Super Model - fans are disillusioned with Super, and the passion for our game is diluted by a model that does not connect to the grassroots. The funding could be resolved if we did not have to keep bailing out the states which have proven time and time again they can't manage themselves to save their fking lives. The quality of rugby played in Australia at a Super level is not exactly very high at the moment.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

I count seven players. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if that actually was 70% of the professional rugby players to come out of Sydney.

Yep. Lets turn an already diminishing fanbase into an even smaller one. How could that possibly fail to save Australian rugby.

the majority of the fan base lives in these areas anyway. the fan base is already tiny. we might as well play to our strengths.

 

[Derpus]

the majority of the fan base lives in these areas anyway. the fan base is already tiny. we might as well play to our strengths.

I'd like some evidence the majority of rugby fans come from a handful of wealthy inner Sydney suburbs before we go making it the basis of all future plans.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Please tell me how you would restructure our domestic comp what teams would you base it around instead?

 

[Derpus]

In a perfect world I'd just have an NRC and delete club/Super Rugby because they both suck arse.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

I'd like some evidence the majority of rugby fans come from a handful of wealthy inner Sydney suburbs before we go making the basis of all future plans.

The northern beaches and upper north shore is inner city?

Two-Blues would still be in the comp. They would cover a large area, but the concentration of rugby fans is obviously smaller in that area anyway.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

the majority of the fan base lives in these areas anyway. the fan base is already tiny. we might as well play to our strengths.

I agree with this point.

We need to revive and solidify our foundations before we go trying to spread the gospel and fantasize about becoming a national juggernaut.

You can't help others effectively if you're not healthy.

 

[noscrumnolife]

Out of interest, what benefits from inventing 12 teams in the NRC would not be achieved by professionalising 12 clubs (5 in Sydney, 5 in Brisbane, 2 in Canberra eg)?

And why would you want to delete the clubs and their 100+ yrs of history when it is the sole good fucking part of Rugby Union in this country?

 

[Slim 293]

The quality of rugby played in Australia at a Super level is not exactly very high at the moment.

But the standard is being played at a much, much higher level than club rugby…

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

okay what are these NRC teams going to be based from? are they gonna be completely artificial? then we go back to the same problem. Maybe in sydney examples we could have North Harbour, South Harbour and Western Sydney. The reason I focus on Sydney so much because without the support of Sydney the NRC is doomed for failure.

 

[noscrumnolife]

But the standard is being played at a much, much higher level than club rugby…

Yes, because we have Super Rugby. It doesn't take a genius to work out if the players in Super Rugby at the moment were in a club competition, the standard of that club competition would rise.

 

[Slim 293]

Yes, because we have Super Rugby. It doesn't take a genius to work out if the players in Super Rugby at the moment were in a club competition, the standard of that club competition would rise.

Yes, if all of Australia's best players are playing in the John I Dent Cup it will improve the level of that competition...

 

[stillmissit]

The 'add-ons' are the exact opposite of poor marketing - there is a reason that basically every team in the recent history of professional sporting competitions has had a name in the format of [Region] [Mascot / Descriptor]. It's all about identity and marketing.

Referring to every team across every code simply as 'QLD' instead of Reds, Bulls, Firebirds, (FKA) Roar, etc. would be extremely tedious and severely limit recognition.

I disagree, if you want the slightest bit of attachment to the team then make it easy for people to recognise who the hell they are supporting, as opposed to some stupid name that you have to spend millions to get any level of brand loyalty outside of committed fans who know what you are on about...

 

[stillmissit]

The 'add-ons' are the exact opposite of poor marketing - there is a reason that basically every team in the recent history of professional sporting competitions has had a name in the format of [Region] [Mascot / Descriptor]. It's all about identity and marketing.

Referring to every team across every code simply as 'QLD' instead of Reds, Bulls, Firebirds, (FKA) Roar, etc. would be extremely tedious and severely limit recognition.

Cricket? https://www.cricketnsw.com.au/matches

 

[Braveheart81]

I just find it baffling why so many people are so negative towards this idea.

Ideas like this have been discussed in detail on these forums for years.

It's a little frustrating when someone who joined the forum a month ago talks about (and I'm paraphrasing) how to save Australian Rugby in three easy steps.

I like John Murray and he's done a lot for Easts which is the club I support and played with as a junior. His article does absolutely nothing to touch on any of the difficulties that would be faced by what he suggests or whether it is viable to achieve the purpose it is intended for.