Argentina v Australia TRC Round 4 Sunday 8 September 5am (AEST)

[stillmissit]

factors like culling players at U15, U18, and U20 level.

Please Explain! as Pauline would say.. Never heard this before.

 

[stillmissit]

Usually through self-interest.

There are individuals and clubs who think that everything is peachy because their club/school/corner of the rugby landscape is fine. Such people don't tend to have more than a few brain cells to rub together. Inbreeding? I dunno.

Phitzy, can I respectfully suggest you contact RA and make an appointment with Horne. He's just started and if he has half a brain 30 mins with someone at the coal face he should find very interesting. Try to go with some solutions..

 

[Pfitzy]

Please Explain! as Pauline would say.. Never heard this before.

In summary, having expressed this multiple times across the internet:

U15 - junior clubs tend to have reasonable strength and participation through from minis to U15/16, building good teams with good players. Once they hit a certain age, rugby schools come knocking, or their parents decide to get them into a schools rugby program, and they don't have time for club rugby any more (or in some cases are told they can't anyway). That's great for the kids in the rugby school cohort, but the rest of that team your club tried to build into Opens? They've got nowhere to play now.

U18 - schools rugby is focused on schools. And that's great for the school, but unless there is a bit of networking or personal relationships between a school and a club, there will be those - particularly outside the top XVs - who never play again once they leave. Partly out of attrition, but partly because no pathway exists and the ability of clubs to establish those relationships is impeded by protocol and lack of resources.

U20 - there are a lot of guys who go into Colts programs at Premier clubs (and Subbies clubs) and don't come out the other side because there are impediments to doing so e.g. attrition (again), not enough game time, wrong coaches, or simply that they can't continue into Grade at their club; maybe there aren't enough spots, or they aren't encouraged to continue.

A lot of people will stand on their soap box and claim I'm talking rubbish (refer my previous comment about people not caring as long as their back yard is tidy). I'm seeing it out on the fields and in the stats available.

 

[Pfitzy]

Attrition is going to happen. Not everyone who starts minis is going to graduate into a senior player, but fk me we don't help ourselves when we deliberately place land mines in our own path in terms of alignment.

Sydney has 3 senior unions - Premier, Subbies, Womens - and a Junior Union. In between them is schools rugby (4 separate organisations). Everyone is running their own race instead of pooling the limited resources we have to help each other.

Every kid in Rugby Xplorer who turns 18 should get an email telling them where their nearest 5 senior clubs are (Premier or Subbies), and encourage them to get in touch.

I'd love to be able to run a Colts side and if they are late bloomers and head to a Premier Club after, they'd get my blessing.
I'd love to restart our womens program with talent from local schools - and it is there, don't worry!
And I'd love to get their families involved to help spread the load on the volunteer front because I'm running out of legs on this.

A rising tide lifts all boats etc.

I know there are always going to be those who aspire to greatness, who will play elite pathways or Premier.
There are those who just love the game and maybe want a social run on a Saturday who could go to Subbies clubs or lower Grades.

I get to see an NRL club do their business up close, as well as talking to the guys in my club involved in the league scene.

Rugby is so far behind it is like league is in flying cars, and we're bashing two rocks together to make fire.

 

[Shiggins]

I freely admit that McReight is one of may favourite players so I will no doubt be biased but what is your definition of being world class? Surely being good enough to be a standout player at test level against the best teams in the world while playing for a second rate team should make you world class? What exactly would he have to do to be world class?

a body of work at test level that would have him picked at least on a bench in a world 15 would be a good start.

it's my opinion. tbh the level of 7 currently is no where near where it was between 1995-2015. no one is on smith, pocock, McCaw or Dusatoirs level now days. psdt is way up there but doesnt have a pilfer game.

 

[Marce]

Exactly, so what's your point? Apart from pointing out the bleeding obvious.

Saying what you need to do is easy: growing the game. The hard part is actually doing it

 

[whitefalcon]

it's my opinion. tbh the level of 7 currently is no where near where it was between 1995-2015. no one is on smith, pocock, McCaw or Dusatoirs level now days. psdt is way up there but doesnt have a pilfer game.

No one is on that level because of the rule changes that have greatly impacted the pilfer.

Pocock in 2015 was next level, infact i think he was so good that they actually changed the rules to mitigate his (and other's) effeteness.

 

[Joe Blow]

a body of work at test level that would have him picked at least on a bench in a world 15 would be a good start.

it's my opinion. tbh the level of 7 currently is no where near where it was between 1995-2015. no one is on smith, pocock, McCaw or Dusatoirs level now days. psdt is way up there but doesnt have a pilfer game.

He is a 6.
McReight is pretty close and has an excellent attacking game to boot. Ardie Savea is Pocockesque.

 

[KOB1987]

Marce, the Wallabies greatness covers two eras, the early 1980's and 1998 to 2002. The rest of the last 100 years has varied between okay and rubbish, and at the moment we are in a rubbish era. One of the problems on here is that anyone under about 45 seems to think the wonderful period of time between 1998 and 2002 is the way it always was. Sadly, just not true. In fact, the 50's, 60's and 70's were very ordinary, just how bad it's hard to ascertain because A) there was no such thing as world rankings B) there was no World Cup C) we played a lot less tests and D) countries like Fiji and Argentina hadn't started playing test rugby.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that we shouldn't be aiming to get back up near the top, just that all the 'this is the end of rugby' we'll all be rooned' is a bit over the top.

This is pretty spot on except I would argue that the era of greatness (or maybe consistently top 4 is a better way to describe it) covers the whole period from the early 80's - when Alan Jones took the reigns - all the way through to the end of the Rod Macqueen stint, which includes the 2003 team that Eddie inherited.

 

[Strewthcobber]

No one is on that level because of the rule changes that have greatly impacted the pilfer.

Pocock in 2015 was next level, infact i think he was so good that they actually changed the rules to mitigate his (and other's) effeteness.

Good teams started baking in the SA approach to nullifying a pilfering 7 too - make them tackle you and remove them from the breakdown contest (Tizzano top tackler on the weekend)

The counter to that is selecting a range of other players who can effect turnovers. That's one of our big issues at the moment. We haven't taken that step

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

The Ghost. Load of garbage. The squad is the best we have according to our pretty handy coaches. Skelton and Rodda would help in the forwards if they wanted to play and can be released from their clubs. The players need to work on doing the simple things well and play like we did for the first 30 minutes on Saturday for 80 minutes. That‘s what the coaches are working on. Simple as that. The negativity on here is astounding. Other nations are improving which is also a factor but a good one in my opinion.@

I'm not denying it's the BEST WE HAVE. I'm just saying it's not a group that is going to test and win routinely against the top sides.

Doing 30 good minutes is pretty standard for a lot of sides that aren't up to it. They get blown past eventually.

 

[cyclopath]

Saying what you need to do is easy: growing the game. The hard part is actually doing it

Another quality post, thanks for that, Captain Obvious.

 

[Marce]

I'm not suggesting for a minute that we shouldn't be aiming to get back up near the top, just that all the 'this is the end of rugby' we'll all be rooned' is a bit over the top.

I know the history, believe me. The different in this case if you compare 2020s rugby with 70s or 80s. The game is more global than ever. There are countries like Georgia, Japan, Portugal or Uruguay that didn't existed in that Era. And you have traditional rugby countries like Ireland or France that nowadays are super powerhouse that are competing for the number one spot and Argentina is better than Australia, meanwhile Fiji or Italy atr at the same level of Australia.

At the same time, AFL and NRL are strongest and richest than ever and soccer is a new player who stole resources in the same sport's market. So this isn't something similar to the 60s or 70s.

 

[Marce]

Another quality post, thanks for that, Captain Obvious.

At least you recognize that I'm pretty well informed about the situation. That's enough for an outsider like me who lives 12,000 kilometers away. Other way you could say that I know nothing about this but you can't.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

"Saying what you need to do is easy: growing the game. The hard part is actually doing it."
--enraptured GAGR denizens gather at the feet of their wise sage Marce.

 

[cyclopath]

At least you recognize that I'm pretty well informed about the situation. That's enough for an outsider like me who lives 12,000 kilometers away. Other way you could say that I know nothing about this but you can't.

I recognise plenty about you, but that is not in the top 10.

 

[Marce]

I recognise plenty about you, but that is not in the top 10.

Come on! Let's be friends. We have a lot in common. Let me show you my last acquisition. A 2020 Tahs hoodie made by XBlades:

It's bloody nice. Isn't it? I remember when I saw a Waratahs staff member wearing it in Leichhardt Oval. I couldn't buy it cause it was too expensive and living as a backpacker wasn't easy. 4 years later I finally I could get it

 

[John S]

Come on! Let's be friends. We have a lot in common. Let me show you my last acquisition. A 2020 Tahs hoodie made by XBlades:

It's bloody nice. Isn't it? I remember when I saw a Waratahs staff member wearing it in Leichhardt Oval. I couldn't buy it cause it was too expensive and living as a backpacker wasn't easy. 4 years later I finally I could get it

There is so much I can say but won't

 

[Tomthumb]

Come on! Let's be friends. We have a lot in common. Let me show you my last acquisition. A 2020 Tahs hoodie made by XBlades:

It's bloody nice. Isn't it? I remember when I saw a Waratahs staff member wearing it in Leichhardt Oval. I couldn't buy it cause it was too expensive and living as a backpacker wasn't easy. 4 years later I finally I could get it

Very relevant to the Wallabies vs Argentina test

 

[Shiggins]

No one is on that level because of the rule changes that have greatly impacted the pilfer.

Pocock in 2015 was next level, infact i think he was so good that they actually changed the rules to mitigate his (and other's) effeteness.

he legit beat South Africa single handed at the world cup. it was one of the best games if not the best I've ever seen from a 7