• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

All Blacks EOYT

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
Yeah, you would.

Of course, we already have one.

Should we be expecting to win it every RWC? What is an acceptable win/loss ratio at RWC? RWC or not, we're the best team in the world.

There's no way a coach or team would survive in NZ with results similiar to the Wallabies in the last 4 years.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Of course, we already have one.

Should we be expecting to win it every RWC? What is an acceptable win/loss ratio at RWC? RWC or not, we're the best team in the world.

There's no way a coach or team would survive in NZ with results similiar to the Wallabies in the last 4 years.

As Kiwis relentlessly point out; but we're not Kiwis, and have never had, nor realistically expected , the results you lot demand. As an Aussie rugby fan, I would love to have that success rate, but I am realistic enough to know it probably will never happen. That's the reality of the sporting landscape here. We still should do better, though.
 

Thomond78

Colin Windon (37)
To put the RWC and the All Blacks in perpsective, here are some interesting numbers.

Should the All Blacks win on Saturday they will:

* Have an all-time win rate of 75%. SA are next closest on around 64%

* Have completed their 3rd Gland Slam in 5 years and 4th overall. Impressive considering -

1. Apart from the AB's no other team has completed a Grand Slam in 26yrs
2. SA's last successfulGrand SLam was in 1961
3. They will be one of only 9 out of 26 teams who have come from the SH to complete a Grand Slam.

For all our failures at the RWC, would we give up this kind of winning culture and record for a William Webb Ellis?

Eh - Bullrush, you do know that in the last three seasons, Wales, Ireland and France have all completed Grand Slams - including Italy, and, in the case of the first two, France?
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
Eh - Bullrush, you do know that in the last three seasons, Wales, Ireland and France have all completed Grand Slams - including Italy, and, in the case of the first two, France?

Really?!?!

I'd like to have the seen the games where Wales and Ireland beat themselves!!
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Eh - Bullrush, you do know that in the last three seasons, Wales, Ireland and France have all completed Grand Slams - including Italy, and, in the case of the first two, France?

Yeah, but you don't play all the matches away, and I don't think it is a Test each week.
Different beast, that Grand Slam. Not knocking it, but it aint the same thing.
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
How different things seem to be in the AB camp as opposed to the Wallabies. Can anyone imagine this coming from Giteau for example?

Joe Rokocoko does not need to be told twice that he blew an opportunity to cement a World Cup spot, saying he now sits in the "second tier" of New Zealand wings.

In the week leading up to the ill-fated Bledisloe Cup test in Hong Kong, the All Black coaches told the squad that good performances would be rewarded with continuity of selection and that playing opportunities for some would be limited.

Rokocoko had the inside running, being selected to start against Australia and England.

That's where the good news ended for Rokocoko.

"There were a few errors there," he said of his flawed Twickenham performance. "It just snowballed and I got frustrated.

"I had a good talk with the coaches the following week. They could see I was trying too hard to make up for the last mistake. Every time I do that I tend to over-run the play and I start to get the passes behind me because I'm too eager to hit the ball with pace."

While Rokocoko was afflicted with a case of the yips, Hosea Gear was having a blinder on the other flank.

Rokocoko lost his place to Isaia Toeava for the Scotland test at Murrayfield and, with Cory Jane recovering in time to play Ireland, the Aucklander suddenly found himself down the pecking order.

With no utility value, there was no spot on the bench either.

"I'm not the only one who's frustrated and wants to play. Every player that comes on this tour wants to get a lot of game time.

"We all want to play but we all had a clear message before the game in Hong Kong that there would be limited opportunities."

Rokocoko knows he has good rugby left in him. By the time you read this, he will know whether he will be involved in the test against Wales this weekend that could mark a third grand slam in Graham Henry's tenure, though the team is not officially named until tomorrow.

He's honest enough to know that if he is selected, it will be a gesture of appreciation for long service rather than an honest appraisal of his form.

Not that he wouldn't jump at the chance to play. The irony is that, until that Twickenham game, Rokocoko was enjoying a largely error-free year for the All Black after a difficult 2009 campaign.

"That's the thing. I want to finish the year well. I don't want to finish with the feeling: 'What did I do on that tour? Pretty much nothing.'

"That's what I'm feeling at the moment."

The Super 15 shapes as the last opportunity for Rokocoko to convince Henry he is worthy of a spot in a 30-man World Cup squad.

"I'm in second place at the moment, a second-tier wing, so I'm going to be working hard to get back to that top spot."

Already he seems resigned to the fact that this will be his last end-of-year tour.

"Brad Thorn's been talking about it. It's in the back of a few of the guys' minds. There's no end-of-year tour next year and who knows what the future holds.

"You've got to enjoy every single moment of being in this environment, of being in a touring All Black team."

Even though I prefer Gear, I wouldn't put it past Roks to have a massive Super Rugby campaign next year.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
He's been poor for the last 2 seasons. His time is up - there's plenty of quality wingers around and Jane and Gear are certainly on top. I'm sure the Wallabies would love to have someone like Ranger available to them now
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Agree, you can't write off a champion but, because of his lack of utility value, as mentioned, he could miss out on the RWC squad and to make the starting XV would be a big stretch.

I think that Henry has bent over backwards to accommodate Joe Rock. He has looked ordinary sometimes this year and almost by definition therefore, not like an All Black. The thing is that he has always played better with the Black jersey on than the Blues jersey but it wasn't the case in 2010 excepting in a couple of winter tests when he looked like the old Joe.

I'd say that Gear and a fit Sivivatu would be the starting wingers for the RWC at this point in time and that Corey Jane who doubles as fullback would be the 3rd guy. Toeava, who is a decent centre on his day and arguably a 2nd five and fullback as well, would be no 4.

It depends on what utility value is needed I guess. Jane could count as a specialist winger but the selectors may think that a 4th specialist is needed. Then the Ranger X-factor may be thought as more important than it is now and don't forget that Dagg may have to be accommodated in 22s, so well is Mils playing.

The selections for All Black squads are always marginal compared to what ours are, since their pool of valid candidates is deeper. IMO Joe Rock will have to have a blinder in Super rugby to get into the 3N squad, the first step.
 

MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
Not sure about Sivi. I think Jane's spot is cemented, and he'll be in competition with Gear. But Gears EOYT has been awseome, I know who I'd take.

RUmours abound that DC may not be fit for Saturdays match vs WAles.... 50 year record in deep shitski?!
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Not sure about Sivi. I think Jane's spot is cemented, and he'll be in competition with Gear. But Gears EOYT has been awseome, I know who I'd take.

RUmours abound that DC may not be fit for Saturdays match vs WAles.... 50 year record in deep shitski?!

Yeah, right. It is Wales. Even with the Duck, I think you guys could do it comfortably.
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
I think that Henry has bent over backwards to accommodate Joe Rock. He has looked ordinary sometimes this year and almost by definition therefore, not like an All Black. The thing is that he has always played better with the Black jersey on than the Blues jersey but it wasn't the case in 2010 excepting in a couple of winter tests when he looked like the old Joe.

I'd say that Gear and a fit Sivivatu would be the starting wingers for the RWC at this point in time and that Corey Jane who doubles as fullback would be the 3rd guy. Toeava, who is a decent centre on his day and arguably a 2nd five and fullback as well, would be no 4.

I've never been a big fan of the Rocket Man. He had lightening speed and finished a lot of moves but as he's slowed down a bit, I don't think he's changed his game enough a la Doug Howlett at the end of his AB playing days.

I have been a bit of a Toeava fan and I think he's played really, really well this tour. I hink he may have suffered from being put into a Black jersey too soon and then being shuffled around the Blues back-line down the years to fill their gaps. He's even played 1st-five.

Sivivatu's defense still concerns me.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
It is Wales. Even with the Duck, I think you guys could do it comfortably.

Wales are crap this year - what a fall. After the 2007 RWC they put their demons from the tournament behind them with a Grand Slam in the 2008 6N. It was supposed to be the rise of Wales rugby but in hindsight it wasn't.

Their forwards look tough enough but they are not scoring tries. Nor are they improving week to week: they played some execrable rugby in the draw against Fiji last Saturday.

Go the Duck.
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
As Kiwis relentlessly point out; but we're not Kiwis, and have never had, nor realistically expected , the results you lot demand. As an Aussie rugby fan, I would love to have that success rate, but I am realistic enough to know it probably will never happen. That's the reality of the sporting landscape here. We still should do better, though.

I was travelling to NZ for work regularly in the early 2000's and the general air of gloom when the subject of international rugby was raised was so deep you could physically touch it. I reckon about half the two islands were in a state of clinical depression for that wonderful period (for us) when we were dominant. In Aussie you have to be a rugby nut to feel like that, over there the whole nation was committed. That's why the Darkness are held to a totally different standard and why they so quickly rise back to the top when they lose a test or two. Regularly losing is just not an option.
 

Thomond78

Colin Windon (37)
Wales are crap this year - what a fall. After the 2007 RWC they put their demons from the tournament behind them with a Grand Slam in the 2008 6N. It was supposed to be the rise of Wales rugby but in hindsight it wasn't.

Their forwards look tough enough but they are not scoring tries. Nor are they improving week to week: they played some execrable rugby in the draw against Fiji last Saturday.

Go the Duck.

LG, remember - at that stage, we were going through the last days of the Coodercide, and the English and Scots were in full-on self-destruct as well. The French were in the early days of Lievremont, when it could be summed up as, "We look so great in these white polo-necks. Let's see what sort of mad stuff we can get away with now..."

In essence, we made it easy for them. Ever since, they've been going rapidly down-hill, without changing their game-plan. Without Ikkul, they've lost most of their fire-power; and Adam Jones and Gethin Jenkins look injury-wobbly at the moment.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Fair comment in hindsight (at least on my part) but Wales pulled themselves up from the "infernal pit of hell" of the 2007 RWC and I remember a few folks saying they were on a long term rise.

Yeah, Wales have relied too much on Shane Williams and he has disguised the deterioration of the Wales back line. When he's not there you're looking for a point of difference in the backs but there isn't much to look at. Henson had demons but his sleight of hand had value on a good day, and those good days are missed.

Young North is going to be around for a long, long time; so there is some future there but what they need first is a playmaker who can also cover for 10 man rugby in bad conditions. Jones is solid, but plays it by the numbers and Hook is too versatile for his own good. Biggar does not have the temperament and has a touch of Wayne Rooney about him. What price would Wales pay for a young Barry John?

Are Jones and Jenkins hurt? I'd start both of them in our Wallaby team in a parallel universe.
 

Thomond78

Colin Windon (37)
Gethin is just back from injury. Adam Jones has a persistent niggly ankle, with very strong rumours he wasn't going to make it.

Hook is flaky, and frankly just isn't good. Biggar, like a lot of the Os, is going the same way. Lee Byrne has gone to hell in a handcart. And what they'd do for, and do with the Hensonwitch - were it not for the fact that half of Wales is perpetually ready to burn him.
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
I love this...keep it up Steve

Debate on the haka has been unusually muted on this northern hemisphere tour, but two other historical talking points today emerged to add an element of All Black tetchiness to their Grand Slam finale with Wales.

Richie McCaw's alleged immunity from referee prosecution and the legitimacy of the All Blacks scrum are both in focus ahead of Sunday's (NZT) clash at the Millennium Stadium, though notably neither gripe was aired by their hosts.

Wallabies coach Robbie Deans and Irish flanker Stephen Ferris found common ground when criticising aspects of New Zealand forward play, and drew a predictably prickly response from All Blacks assistant coach Steve Hansen.

The Irishman's assertion that McCaw should have been yellow-carded during the final quarter of last weekend's 38-18 win in Dublin was given short shrift by Hansen, who also turned on his former coaching colleague at Canterbury for accusing the All Blacks of unspecified "trickery" at the set piece.

After believing his much-maligned pack had finally been adjudicated fairly in last weekend's Italy in Florence, Deans claimed the Wallabies were undermined in the Hong Kong Bledisloe Cup test they won because Irish referee Alain Rolland had been influenced by the New Zealander's superior reputation at scrum time.

Deans fumed: "They don't scrummage. They just manipulate, they play the referee constantly. It's all about trickery."

McCaw responded to his former mentor's charge by musing: "Perhaps a bit of pressure does that to you.

"I think you've seen over the years it's a part of the game we put a lot of work into."

Hansen was more forthright labelling Deans' assertion as "laughable".

"Rob's obviously under a bit of pressure. He seems to always fall back and talk about New Zealand when he's actually involved with Australia.

"I just dismiss the comment. It's a man trying to divert attention from his own team and himself."

Confronted with Ferris's demand for his compatriot Alan Lewis - who controls the All Blacks this weekend - to use the sin bin when Welsh ball is impeded, especially by McCaw, Hansen again went on the offensive.

"That's starting to become quite boring too," he said of the regular targeting of his captain.

"Richie's the greatest openside flanker in the game and he probably knows the rules better than the referees do," he said, undeterred by the number of penalties conceded while Ireland were trying to rally.

"It's one thing to be penalised but when you look at some of the penalties they're not correct. The referee's made the wrong decision," Hansen said.

He also claimed McCaw had unfairly been perceived on television as the perpetrator every time he exercised his right as captain to seek clarification from South African referee Marius Jonker.

"Every time Rich went and spoke to the ref about a penalty - and it's usually involving somebody else - you hear 'There's the ref talking to Richie McCaw again, he should penalised, he should have been yellow carded'.

"It's actually becoming quite boring, and I think quite disrespectful," said Hansen, before explaining that McCaw acted properly at the breakdown.

"When you make a tackle and get up and you're on their side of that tackle he's entitled to be there until a ruck's formed - and a ruck's not formed until two people are bound over the ball."

McCaw typically adopted the diplomatic response he has perfected during a record 93 test caps: "You play what you're permitted to play.

"It's really important to play the ref, you have to understand your limits."

Meanwhile, Hansen reiterated the belief Wales would be a genuine impediment to the All Blacks completing a fourth Grand Slam, and third since 2005.

Despite winning only two of their last 12 internationals - and drawing with Fiji last weekend - Hansen agreed with head coach Graham Henry, and a host of players, that a new-look Wales would rise to the occasion.

"Anybody that is put under the spotlight, and the scrutiny and the criticism they have been after that (Fiji) performance will be dangerous - and a lot of those players won't be there on Saturday."
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
What I hate about coaches is that they waffle so much and therefore it's hardly worth reading what they are saying.

Whether what Hansen is saying is right or wrong I wish there were more like him.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Listening to some coaches in press conferences reminds me of a piece of Office Humour that went around several years ago.

The game was "The Garguantuan Cliche Overload Buzzword Bingo 1.0"

The idea was to sit in boring meetings with all the management newspeak (Robbie-speak) and mark off words like:

Action Plan
Industry Best Practice
Key Indicator
Context Sensitive
Backward Compatible
Resource Re-balancing
Re-engaging
Bleeding edge
On the same page
synergistic
Harmonisation
seemless

etc (we are all familiar with the type of weasel words)

on a 54 x 7 matrix checksheet.

The first person to get their spreadsheet marked off with 20 cliches called Bingo and was declared the winner.

This game injected some point in attending otherwise ineffective and inefficient meetings.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top