3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[RugbyReg]

Just hypothetically, if the two QLD teams were 'city' and 'country', and to ensure the viability/competitiveness of the 'country' team it was Premier players with country backgrounds/up-bringing/loose connection (and legit country players if good enough), what do you think those two teams would be?

Include Reds squad members unlikely to be in the Wallabies, as well as all club players.

Just hypothetically of course....

 

[BeastieBoy]

I have just read the post about the hunter pulling out cause they'll need 350k pa to fund the team. I cannot see Easts Randwick and Southern districts proceeding on that basis.

 

[BeastieBoy]

This whole NRC thing is a hasty mess. It continues the ARU top down approach, where they parachute large numbers of players from above. We asked for a bottom up strategy that supported the club and restored and supported local loyalties. If my team was part of this they would be lucky to have a player or two. The others from other clubs and spares from the Tahs etc is not going to want me to watch it. I believe the way it has been hastily constructed, the lack of connect with the districts, the knowledge that it is not first tier, the financial impost on the teams and the predictable short term likelihood of media funding, means this competition is doomed in this format.

 

[East Coast Aces]

Just hypothetically, if the two QLD teams were 'city' and 'country', and to ensure the viability/competitiveness of the 'country' team it was Premier players with country backgrounds/up-bringing/loose connection (and legit country players if good enough), what do you think those two teams would be?

Include Reds squad members unlikely to be in the Wallabies, as well as all club players.

Just hypothetically of course..

That's a really interesting concept, an Origin style City, and Country teams. That would definetly have the Country side as my second team, meaning I'd be more likely to watch them on TV then perhaps a team i was meant to hold a grudge against eg a North Brisbane JV side.

But like most people on this site I just love Rugby, and as most QLDers on this site, I just love QLD so I would probs have just as much interest and support in the North JV as a Country side. But I don't know if that is the case for every other potential spectator.

 

[Train Without a Station]

BeastieBoy, I'm not sure how exactly you would expect the ARU to implement the required development competition to adequately enable us to compete with the likes of SA and NZ by providing a stronger competition with a greater concentration of talent, therefore better preparing players to play at the higher level.

What exactly to you expect the ARU to support the clubs? The competition leaves club rugby unaffected by it's existence. The ARU have called for clubs to bring forth submissions. The "financial impost" on teams as you put it is just the cost of running a team in such a comp, with much of the costs subsidised by the already financially stricken ARU.

With the ARC the clubs complained about the teams being laid out by the ARU, now the ARU is giving the best prepared teams a chance to be involved and that's wrong too?

If your club is lucky to have one or two players represent a team they were in a JV of, how is that the fault of anybody other than your club? I'd argue that imposing any sort of quotas, goes against the whole point of developing a stronger competition. People complain about the politics of rugby and the elitism. Ensure each stakeholder is adequately represented in player numbers, rather than selecting on ability purely adds to that stereotype and serves to lower the strength of the potential competition.

As previously stated, if Shute Shield wanted to maintain it's relevance and be a professional tier, it should have developed itself from where it was in the 1970s much like the NSWRL and the VFL did, not stagnated.

 

[sidelinesid]

me thinks any JV team will have to have all participants agreeing between clubs on a level not seen before.
Each Club coach will want a % of his favored players considered.
Particular playing style will favour one club over another causing dissappointment to the ones missing out.
Selection of coaches and managment could cause friction between JV clubs.
UN style Diplomacy will be needed for JV's to be a chance.
I am with Beastieboy - Should start at the bottom and support the clubs.

 

[Hugie]

One thing we haven't talked (argued/speculated/fabricated/gossiped) about is prize money. What are we playing for? The business end of the show.

To get the ball rolling here's what I think would be reasonable:

1. No money to the franchisees for anything other than results, pay for result only.
2. $100k for making the semis ( $400k)
3. Further $100k for making the final ($200k)
4. Further $100k for winning the bloody thing ($100k)
5. i.e. Total of $700k on the table, to be part funded out of the naming rights, which haven't been sold yet.
6. The teaming winning will have some serious money to disperse back to any JV members.
7. Maybe some money for the team with the best attacking record and the best defensive record.

This will put some serious pressure on the franchisees management staff to get results.

 

[RugbyReg]

there's no prize money.

Maybe one day, but not this year.

 

[Rugby Central]

This whole NRC thing is a hasty mess. It continues the ARU top down approach, where they parachute large numbers of players from above. We asked for a bottom up strategy that supported the club and restored and supported local loyalties.

A stoned sloth on valium would look hasty compared to the inaction of Australian Rugby administration. From the way I read it the ARU are facilitating a competition but asking the Clubs to sort out everything else. Isn't that getting the Clubs to work it out?

I'm not trying to be rude so I apologise for any offence. Can you see the irony in the statement, "We asked for a bottom up strategy". How can any bottom-up strategy be implemented from above. If the Clubs wanted something done, they should have done it. They can't demand someone else fix their problem then get pissed when it doesn't suit.

I also believe that the Clubs should be central to any broader Tier 3 competition. But the simple fact is they have sat on their hands for years and never done anything about it. You are right that it "Should start at the bottom and support the clubs" but it's a case of shoulda, coulda, woulda...DIDN'T

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I also believe that the Clubs should be central to any broader Tier 3 competition. But the simple fact is they have sat on their hands for years and never done anything about it. You are right that it "Should start at the bottom and support the clubs" but it's a case of shoulda, coulda, woulda.DIDN'T

do i understand you correctly: the shute shield clubs should have ogt off their hands and organised for some of them to play the premier clubs and someone from Melbourne and someone from Perth? of and dont forget Adelaide.
This when the vikings have played in the Sydney (and I think Brissy) comps in the past?
Does than not sound to you like something the national body should have organised?
At the moment their position is all care (arguably) but no responsibility (definitely). And that's no responsibility for the NRC or any adverse impacts on club rugby. What are they taking responsibility for? Opening the EOI envelopes?

 

[Train Without a Station]

What he is saying is that if they wanted to be the next tier of rugby and be adequately catered for in a national comp, they should have pushed to transition from a Sydney based comp to something bigger. Much like the NSWRL and VFL did. These were not overseen by a national body, they grew from within and overtook the relevance of all other City comps.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What he is saying is that if they wanted to be the next tier of rugby and be adequately catered for in a national comp, they should have pushed to transition from a Sydney based comp to something bigger. Much like the NSWRL and VFL did. These were not overseen by a national body, they grew from within and overtook the relevance of all other City comps.

with money from the top over 20+ years in a historically professional game.
And they were most certainly overseen by a body from the top.
NSWRL then ARL v Superleague then NRL.
VFL over saw then game and transitioned to AFL.
Any way all debate on this topic divides along the lines of whether you want the NRC more than fear decimation of the game through incompetence.

 

[Rugby Central]

do i understand you correctly: the shute shield clubs should have ogt off their hands and organised for some of them to play the premier clubs and someone from Melbourne and someone from Perth? of and dont forget Adelaide.
This when the vikings have played in the Sydney (and I think Brissy) comps in the past?
Does than not sound to you like something the national body should have organised?

Answering your first question, Yep. If someone doesn't organise your birthday party for you do you just not have a party. Should the ARU have organised something.....probably. Did they.....no. So rather than wait for someone to do something the Clubs could have organised to restructure themselves towards professionalism. They didn't.

As far as I know there was no law stopping Clubs from organising a competiton themselves. Given the ARU's apathy at the time (and since) they probably would have just said yes as long as they could take some credit for it. Unfortunately when the game officially became professional the Clubs saw the opportunity and waved as it passed them by.

For example, a very simple step would have been change match times. Nearly every rugby fan either plays on Saturdays or watches a family member or friend play on Saturday. The guys and girls who are really passionate about the game (the one's who would pay to see SS games) are your 1st and 2nd XV players in Clubs and schools who will never be able to make it to a SS game. But Clubs held on to the traditional 3pm start.

This is the best of a bad situation caused by everyone involved and the Clubs can benefit immensely if they choose to take advantage of it. The Clubs are being invited to participate in every way they can. The ARU has used it's position as the supplier of Super Rugby and internationals to negatiate something for the third tier. Through this, they will cover a significant amout of the costs. So I do beleive they are doing a bit more than "opening envelopes"

Damn you IS you have me defending ARU actions.....my skin is crawling

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As far as I know there was no law stopping Clubs from organising a competiton themselves. Given the ARU's apathy at the time (and since) they probably would have just said yes as long as they could take some credit for it. Unfortunately when the game officially became professional the Clubs saw the opportunity and waved as it passed them by.


Damn you IS you have me defending ARU actions...my skin is crawling

I think there is a law that prevents them and that relates to affiliation under the IRB Regs.
There is also a practicality that this was not a single birthday to use your analogy it involved 12 birthdays in Sydney alone and it is pretty clear some will not be invited and would not have been invited and that's never pleasant.
I accept that there's not much point dragging over the coals and i would not want you to have to keep defending the ARU but the professional "structure" was just shoved over the top of these amateur clubs back in 95/96 and they immediately lost their clout - dont forget super league was a product of the same uncertain, uncontainable commercial forces that suddenly enveloped rugby.
That's water under the bridge.
My hope is that the NRC thrives and that SS and Premier Rugby get stronger by whatever means.

 

[Rugby Central]

My hope is that the NRC thrives and that SS and Premier Rugby get stronger by whatever means.

Ditto. Paricularly with the joint ventures I can see clubs reaping the benefit of offering a "representative" side for their players to aim for. I think the competition for spots and the kudos for developing the "rep" players will drive Clubs to develop structures and programs that will create a great leap forward.

Aside from winning the comp (which came down to only a handful of Clubs) there was nothing to drive change. With no chance of winning the comp and no fear of relegation, what was the motivation for most Clubs.

My gut feeling is that this will start with the Clubs and JV's that tendered but as each Premier and SS Club improves by necessity, they will be able to replace the original entities. Then we can all go back to hating Uni so everything is right in the world

 

[Stands]

My gut feeling is that this will start with the Clubs and JV's that tendered but as each Premier and SS Club improves by necessity, they will be able to replace the original entities. Then we can all go back to hating Uni so everything is right in the world

Can we still hate Uni in the NRC?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Can we still hate Uni in the NRC?

That's not the question.
The question is how can we not?

 

[the coach]

Can we still hate Uni in the NRC?

For the record, I don't hate Uni.
I do hate the culture of mismanagement by NSWRU, ARU and SRU that has allowed one club to dominate the recruitment of young players and the unwillingness to make the player points system achieve its intended objectives. It's crazy to hate Uni for doing what they do so successfully and within the rules.

Hope they don't win the SS this year

 

[Crashy]

Did I hear that the points system has increased the value of Aus schoolboy and state schoolboy players in each team?
Surely this will affect Uni's colts strength if true.

 

[gel]

That Qld country vs city origin thing for queensland is a pretty good idea.

I have no idea about who the players would be, but I wonder where the home ground for country would be?

There are plenty of people in brisbane of country heritage, who would no doubt support the country team if it was still hosted in brisbane, but if I was living in the country still I would feel pretty ripped off having a country team that never played in the country.

But then a country team hosted in a country location would probably struggle for crowds, transportation etc etc etc.

Both pros and cons.........

Still, a tasty prospect, and likely to be more spirited games than north vs south brisbane (a rivalry that doesn't really exist given the north is clearly superior anyway and everyone knows it).