3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[Dave Beat]

And there has to be an incentive for them to do so. Allowing them to import players from Sydney and Brisbane to fill gaps means they will be less likely to invest in the local club comps of Melbourne and Perth and also won't help to energise the local rugby communities.

Yes, and having players U21 being exposed to higher quality rugby will assist in this development.

 

[I like to watch]

Only if they are ready.
If they are not ready it's counter productive.
If it was that easy,all 19 yo 's would be promoted,wouldn't they?.

 

[turnovertwopasses]

Agreed! The 19 yr olds hes talking about/seen however, are always ready because clubs like Manly and Uni steal talent from the poorer clubs and they come on in 1st or 2nd grade and look great. A good 19 yr old looks like a star when you have super 15 players stacked in your top grades as per the Manly Marlins and Sydney Uni.

 

[Dave Beat]

Only if they are ready.
If they are not ready it's counter productive.
If it was that easy,all 19 yo 's would be promoted,wouldn't they?.

Relating to my earlier post, the U18, 19, 20, 21 in an under 21 3 T team.

 

[Dave Beat]

Agreed! The 19 yr olds hes talking about/seen however, are always ready because clubs like Manly and Uni steal talent from the poorer clubs and they come on in 1st or 2nd grade and look great. A good 19 yr old looks like a star when you have super 15 players stacked in your top grades as per the Manly Marlins and Sydney Uni.

Tell us all, who is your Shute Shield team

 

[Quick Hands]

Agreed! The 19 yr olds hes talking about/seen however, are always ready because clubs like Manly and Uni steal talent from the poorer clubs and they come on in 1st or 2nd grade and look great. A good 19 yr old looks like a star when you have super 15 players stacked in your top grades as per the Manly Marlins and Sydney Uni.

You've got a real thing against success haven't you? No matter what the sport, players gravitate towards well-run teams because they are the teams which are successful.

I'd also like to know how any club "steals" players. It implies that clubs "own" players, which is a ludicrous proposition. Players move clubs for many reasons and the main one at the lower-levels is to go to where they will receive good coaching at a club which is run professionally.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Let's face it QH, a player would go to Uni/Manly for likely the same or less than what he is receiving from his current club due to the likelihood that they can develop him into a professional player.

 

[Forcefield]

Instead of going of shore, pick from your local comp to develop.
In an early post you suggested maybe just 50% from the Force, this post suggest considerably more.

I am talking about 2 or 3 players from South Africa. When I talk about players coming from the Western Force Academy those are players who are, or will be in the case of a couple of South Africans in there, playing in the local comp. Those are the players that this 3T competition is for. There were 3 WA developed players in the Aus U20s this year (Ollie Hoskins, Brad Lacey and Luke Burton) they need the 3T to develop to the next level. We also had two who trialled and didn't make the cut (Corey Thomas and Scott Tolmie). That's not to mention handfuls of other local players in our academy. I still predict that only 50% of the Perth 3T team will be from the Force main squad of 30. You can call me up on that if I am wrong when the team is announced.

 

[Quick Hands]

Let's face it QH, a player would go to Uni/Manly for likely the same or less than what he is receiving from his current club due to the likelihood that they can develop him into a professional player.

I think that's right, and the same would go for Eastwood and Southern Districts at the moment.

But it hasn't always been so; as recently at the 90s Manly and SU were mid-table at best and both almost relegated from first division, SD are an amalgamation of 2nd Div Pt Hacking and the about to be demoted St George. At that time Randwick, Gordon, Warringah and Eastwood attracted the top talent - for the same reasons, they were well-run and the players received good coaching and a pathway to rep selection.

From the Manly perspective, it's been a long, hard road to the top and we're lucky that the guys running the club at the moment are top-notch. There's also been a big focus on re-energising the juniors and grass roots; the club won 3 age groups at the 2013 state champs and the crowds at Manly Oval are about the biggest in SS.

 

[gel]

No. I'm worried that this will be seen and reflect poorly on my SS club/ more players from my region will be targeted as a result of my comments.

I don't think that Manly and Uni will significantly alter their strategies based upon some anonymous postings on a rugby forum, so you should be safe.

 

[gel]

Oh, that post was deleted, carry on

 

[GaffaCHinO]

To suggest that development players won't be eligible for the NRC is ridicules considering that they are not allowed to leave aus and play in another comp, in doings so they loose their residency and will have to re start their qualifying period under the IRB rules see Speight.(but hey he plays for the Brumbies and is a shoe in for the wobs...)

I'm getting sick of reading this thread and seeing people bagging out the Force and Rebels saying they will be pillaging the Sydney talent to the detriment of other teams.

Then you suggest that the players who already player in Perth or Melbourne should not be able to play there because they should play for their Sydney sides again who pays there salary (and don't give me this crap about how the Force and Rebels are being bailed out to the tune of 5mill per year show me some hard evidence or shut up...when you make this claim you do now that all the clubs get about 5mill a year from the ARU it's called a salary cap.)

Now I can't speak for the Rebels but the Force are moving in a different direction when it comes to recruitment. They are sick and tired or east coast players using them as a stepping stone and not contributing to the environment in Perth hence the move to getting SA players but hey they are still criticised for this because they should pick Aus players but the ones they can get don't really want to be here and the minute they can they jump ship :/


And on the local development side this year we have 7 local WA players in the squad this is a Force record aswell as another 3 (that I know of) contracted to the Wider training squad which is where the players will come from for the NRC) along with a growing list of young kids making rep sides.


This year we will have our First WA Wallabies since Welborn and there will be meany more to come so don't sit at your key board and Make crazy acquisitions and silly assumptions about what the Force and Rebels are or are not doing when you clearly have no idea.

Rant over...that feels better


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Since you cannot support your teams with home grown talent you ought to have a less partisan look at how you come to have any players who are worthy of s15.

 

[Dave Beat]

Since you cannot support your teams with home grown talent you ought to have a less partisan look at how you come to have any players who are worthy of s15.

Gaff had a worthy rant, and he did bring up some good points.
Up until the 3T - I thought / liked the Shute teams working together as a pathway for the players. I don't and won't ever like their idea of not letting the players back to the Shute "if the players want to go back". Why - because I enjoy watching them play.
Now the 3T is in place - suck and see and amend and develop - no body knows yet. So;
1. They need to look local and I'd prefer not overseas.
2. U21 comp will assist them develop local players.
3. Their 3T will be comparable to the S15 side but will need to include a required number of local / academy players.
As I said fair rant, and there is no doubt the comp will adapt in the early years to meet needs.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I don't see the need for any rule that existing clubs in a city need to be aligned with a third tier club based out of that city.

The way I see the structure developing is that existing district clubs (most not all) are going to struggle to put dollars on the table year on year. Benefactors are going to effectively fund the third tiers clubs over the next couple of years and with that will come control over the next couple of years.

The district clubs will then align themselves with third tier clubs around the country.

Very similar to how major and minor league baseball works in the United States. The minor league teams are independently owned and operated, and sign 2 to 4 year affiliation agreements with major league teams. They can switch affiliation at the end of terms. Also the two teams can be on either side of the country.

I don't see a problem with a Sydney club affiliating with a Perth or Melbourne team. Still a pathway for development for young players.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't see the need for any rule that existing clubs in a city need to be aligned with a third tier club based out of that city.

The way I see the structure developing is that existing district clubs (most not all) are going to struggle to put dollars on the table year on year. Benefactors are going to effectively fund the third tiers clubs over the next couple of years and with that will come control over the next couple of years.

The district clubs will then align themselves with third tier clubs around the country.

Very similar to how major and minor league baseball works in the United States. The minor league teams are independently owned and operated, and sign 2 to 4 year affiliation agreements with major league teams. They can switch affiliation at the end of terms. Also the two teams can be on either side of the country.

I don't see a problem with Sydney club affiliating with a Perth or Melbourne team. Still a pathway for development for young players.

And what if a player wants to join a non-affiliated NRC team. Could be restraint of trade under Aus law if he is not allowed?

 

[Quick Hands]

And what if a player wants to join a non-affiliated NRC team. Could be restraint of trade under Aus law if he is not allowed?

Every rule is a restraint of trade. It has to be an unreasonable restraint of trade for the courts to become involved. This is why an orderly, fair and transparent system needs to be in place. To take an extreme example, players can't change teams 2 or 3 times a season, there are rules in place to prevent this. It is a restraint of trade, but it's not an unreasonable one as it is necessary for the good running of team sports.

If a player was contracted to the Force for example, they are his employers and if they want him to play for Perth 3T, then that's where he has to play.

 

[Hawko]

Has anyone seen whether marquee players, who will not be eligible for the Wallabies, will be allowed to play in the NRC? If they are then it will needlessly block off spots for up-and-comers.

 

[Kenny Powers]

And what if a player wants to join a non-affiliated NRC team. Could be restraint of trade under Aus law if he is not allowed?

Say you are playing for Southern Districts in Sydney and they affiliate themselves with the Perth team in the NRC. The end of the Shute Shield season comes and Perth don't want you for the NRC you become a free agent.

As long as the ARU are dealing directly with the all teams in the NRC standard contracts can be used. That covers players stepping up from Shute Shield.

Players coming back from S15 that may take a few years to correct, as new contracts are signed they may need a clause for NRC.

I believe this will take a few years to sort out contractual issues but need to have a two way flow from district clubs to NRC and from S15 back to NRC.

 

[Quick Hands]

Has anyone seen whether marquee players, who will not be eligible for the Wallabies, will be allowed to play in the NRC? If they are then it will needlessly block off spots for up-and-comers.

There's been nothing from the ARU on that.

Any movement in Adelaide or news on the Black Falcons EOI for 3T?
http://www.sarugby.com.au/news/2448/