3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[I like to watch]

Rugby will grow in the non-traditional rugby states by having more competitive teams that more people want to watch (both on TV and live at the ground) and by encouraging more of these fans to start playing rugby or getting their kids playing rugby.

If you put restrictions on the NRC sides to only select players from certain teams/competitions then that might dictate that a few non Super Rugby players relocate permanently from Sydney or Brisbane to Melbourne or Perth to play club rugby there and hope to get a place in the NRC team but it will make these teams less competitive and will also mean those players are playing in a weaker competition for the rest of the season. It might also mean that more local players get to play but that would likely be at the detriment of their team's overall strength.

Supporters want to follow successful teams and from an Australian rugby perspective, there should be a strong desire to ensure that the NRC is as strong as it possibly can be by making sure that all the best non Super Rugby players are involved.

I believe this is an important issue Once the comp is successfully established.
If Perth & Melbourne need to rape & pillage Sydney Uni,the first 2 years to get established.
That is a price I am willing to pay!

 

[Train Without a Station]

Disagree. I am certain that local support for franchises will be stronger if some local players are in the teams. Particularly for the newer areas.

The BBL seems to be working quite well with a bunch of mercenaries playing for every team as well as a few local shield players.

I believe the game I went to at Etihad Stadium on Saturday night drew 40k for the local derby. I also can't recall anybody saying "Oh how great is that to see Joe Bloggs from the Dandenong Whatever's playing for this team" whilst I was there. That's an example built without 100 years of foundations.

The level we are talking about here for the NRC would be considerably lower than that, with the remaining being the known names from the regions S15 franchise.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I believe this is an important issue Once the comp is successfully established.
If Perth & Melbourne need to rape & pillage Sydney Uni,the first 2 years to get established.
That is a price I am willing to pay!

For at least the past decade Sydney Uni's function has basically been to develop professional players, something it does better than any other club in the world. Melbourne in particular has relied very heavily on Uni as a source of players, both for the ARC competition in 2007 and for its Super squad. There is no "need to rape & pillage Sydney Uni". Players are encouraged to explore their potential whether with Super squads or abroad.
.

 

[Quick Hands]

Players are encouraged to explore their potential whether with Super squads or abroad.
.

Most SS clubs do the same although on a smaller scale.

Unfortunately the open slather approach advocated by some would work in reverse, and see super and extended squad players who had left Sydney and gone to the Force or Rebels return home to Sydney thus weakening the very places that 3T should be trying to strengthen.

 

[happyjack]

For at least the past decade Sydney Uni's function has basically been to develop professional players, something it does better than any other club in the world. Melbourne in particular has relied very heavily on Uni as a source of players, both for the ARC competition in 2007 and for its Super squad. There is no "need to rape & pillage Sydney Uni". Players are encouraged to explore their potential whether with Super squads or abroad.
.

Finally a post that makes some sense. Well done Bruce!
Clubs in Qld like GPS and Sunnybank have over 1,000 players from U6 to Wallabies and the seamless pathway, as well as the competitive and recreational enjoyment of the sport is their purpose, not a quest to become a professional franchise.
Our job is send players, coaches and other participants to the next level, not necessarily the organisation itself.
This week, Sunnybank said good bye to a number of male and female players who now have to reside in Sydney for the national 7s program. We also have a competition structure that will mean that at least a dozen Super Rugby and National Under 20 players will not play a game for the club.
The notion that this weakens the club is flawed when viewed against the measure of time. Players move out the top but players move in to replace and emulate them every year. The proven success of the pathway drives the new recruits.
Rather than talk down Club Rugby and bemoaning what a necessary innovation such as T3 will mean, we should be talking up the importance of "Premier" clubs that bridge the pathway from amateur to professional Rugby.

 

[Rugrat]

Happy Jack, Clubs need aspiration at the organisational level to develop further in there own right not just provide a platform for individual short term members/players to achieve their own goals. Using you own example as proof of this, Sunnybank only reached its next stage as a senior club when they had a goal to aim for and achieve, which was entering a team in "Premier Rugby". The organisation must always attempt to be the best it can be and that should definitely include providing its members the chance to play in its own jersey at the highest level available to it. If the board at Sunnybank didn't have aspiration at the time it would still be playing subbies in seniors!

 

[happyjack]

Happy Jack, Clubs need aspiration at the organisational level to develop further in there own right not just provide a platform for individual short term members/players to achieve their own goals. Using you own example as proof of this, Sunnybank only reached its next stage as a senior club when they had a goal to aim for and achieve, which was entering a team in "Premier Rugby". The organisation must always attempt to be the best it can be and that should definitely include providing its members the chance to play in its own jersey at the highest level available to it. If the board at Sunnybank didn't have aspiration at the time it would still be playing subbies in seniors!

Correct Rugrat but the world didn't end for Sunnybank when the game went professional and it won't end if they are not in T3.
The UK example would indicate that it is impossible for a common organisation to run a community club of 1000+ aspiring amateur players and a professional team, and that was with them having autonomy over the governance, brand, player tenure, grounds and broadcasting.

 

[Forcefield]

I believe this is an important issue Once the comp is successfully established.
If Perth & Melbourne need to rape & pillage Sydney Uni,the first 2 years to get established.
That is a price I am willing to pay!

I do not think Perth will need to rape and pillage anyone. Between those Super Rugby players available and our academy/wider training group, I think we'll be able to field a very competitive team. If we do any raping and pillaging it will probably be of South Africa (mostly likely Capetown) and it will be to test out guys who might be interested in joining the Franchise in the following Super Rugby season.

 

[Dave Beat]

I do not think Perth will need to rape and pillage anyone. Between those Super Rugby players available and our academy/wider training group, I think we'll be able to field a very competitive team. If we do any raping and pillaging it will probably be of South Africa (mostly likely Capetown) and it will be to test out guys who might be interested in joining the Franchise in the following Super Rugby season.

Instead of going of shore, pick from your local comp to develop.
In an early post you suggested maybe just 50% from the Force, this post suggest considerably more.

 

[suckerforred]

I do not think Perth will need to rape and pillage anyone. Between those Super Rugby players available and our academy/wider training group, I think we'll be able to field a very competitive team. If we do any raping and pillaging it will probably be of South Africa (mostly likely Capetown) and it will be to test out guys who might be interested in joining the Franchise in the following Super Rugby season.

From what I have heard I don't think they will be allowed. I know for certain the question has been asked re OS players in the comp and the answer was no. It is being targeted at Australian players. How OS & development players currently in Super Rugby squads are going to be treated we do not know yet. I am just fairly certain that the teams will not be able to bring in players from overseas.

 

[Jets]

From what I have heard I don't think they will be allowed. I know for certain the question has been asked re OS players in the comp and the answer was no. It is being targeted at Australian players. How OS & development players currently in Super Rugby squads are going to be treated we do not know yet. I am just fairly certain that the teams will not be able to bring in players from overseas.

So players contracted to Super teams but who aren't "Australian" won't be able to play in this comp? Seems like a silly idea. Fringe super players from OS will look elsewhere for opportunity.
No more Henry Speight's as they'll look to the NPC for a run and will never qualify to play for the Wallabies.

 

[JSRF10]

I'd assume that in someone like Speight's case the ARU would ensure that it is written into his contract that if he wants to qualify by residence for Australia he must commit to an NRC team for 3 years.

Speight, by virtue for his commit to Wallaby qualification, would be classed as NAQ (Not Australia Qualified) than say Potgeiter who is NAE (Non Australia Eligible) and therefore shouldn't be allowed to play at an NRC franchise.

 

[Dave Beat]

So players contracted to Super teams but who aren't "Australian" won't be able to play in this comp? Seems like a silly idea. Fringe super players from OS will look elsewhere for opportunity.
No more Henry Speight's as they'll look to the NPC for a run and will never qualify to play for the Wallabies.

One of those blury boxes that one - bit like a super player who graduated from club rugby up to Super Rugby then he's selected by his Pacific Island team because he'd never crack the wobs. He is then called a marquee player - I don't agree with that. (off topic sorry).

 

[Highlander35]

One of those blury boxes that one - bit like a super player who graduated from club rugby up to Super Rugby then he's selected by his Pacific Island team because he'd never crack the wobs. He is then called a marquee player - I don't agree with that. (off topic sorry).

Yep, why should Aholeilei and Rokobaro be marquee players just because they've cracked the Tonga and Fiji Nat sides respectively.

Sent from my LG-P713 using Tapatalk

 

[suckerforred]

So players contracted to Super teams but who aren't "Australian" won't be able to play in this comp? Seems like a silly idea. Fringe super players from OS will look elsewhere for opportunity.
No more Henry Speight's as they'll look to the NPC for a run and will never qualify to play for the Wallabies.

As I said "How OS & development players currently in Super Rugby squads are going to be treated we do not know yet".

I guess that they will be treated as per JSRF10 comments with those working towards or with the possability of being Aust qualified being allowed to play and those who are no eligible not being allowed to play. Having said that the ARU might make a blanket exception of all players contracted to Super Rugby clubs or maybe only exclude those that have their international status determined - e.g. past All Blacks, Springboks, Fijians etc.

My point being that teams/clubs will not be able to bring players in specifically for the NRC. I know that the question was asked about bringing in OS players to play in the comp & the answer was no.

Edit: As an aside the request was for minow international rep players & would have come with a bucket load of cash.

 

[Dave Beat]

Yep, why should Aholeilei and Rokobaro be marquee players just because they've cracked the Tonga and Fiji Nat sides respectively.

Sent from my LG-P713 using Tapatalk

Spot on!!!

 

[wamberal]

The BBL seems to be working quite well with a bunch of mercenaries playing for every team as well as a few local shield players.

I believe the game I went to at Etihad Stadium on Saturday night drew 40k for the local derby. I also can't recall anybody saying "Oh how great is that to see Joe Bloggs from the Dandenong Whatever's playing for this team" whilst I was there. That's an example built without 100 years of foundations.

The level we are talking about here for the NRC would be considerably lower than that, with the remaining being the known names from the regions S15 franchise.

Okay, fine, you are welcome to your opinion. I would again make the point that we are trying to attract, firstly, existing rugby supporters to take an interest in the competition. Rugby supporters are (in my experience, yours is apparently different) have a deeper interest in the players and their backgrounds than people who support events like the errrr "Big Bash League".

People go to the Big Bash to see exciting cricket, with lots of big hits. I suspect this is a different kind of audience to the one that we are trying to nurture.

We are a niche sport, not a particularly popular one. As I said earlier, and will say again, having some locals in a franchise with which local supporters can identify will be better than the alternative. Rugby is still, to a large extent, a game for amateurs and volunteers, in this country. Some of us have a different mindset from people who are attracted to mass media events sponsored by KFC.

 

[Quick Hands]

The last couple of pages confirm my view that an orderly process needs to be implemented in regards to where and for who the players play. It's not a minor issue to be sorted somewhere down the track when the whole thing is a mess, it's something that needs to be laid down clearly so everyone knows what the rules are.

An open slather, survival of the fittest approach will see Sydney and Brisbane teams get many of their super players back from Perth, Melbourne and Canberra. The very places that we want 3T to strengthen. Those players come back to SS and Premier clubs now - one of the reasons being that they feel an emotional attachment to the club and another being that they can live in their home city. There is no reason to believe they won't also return for 3T is given the chance. This essentially leaves Perth and Melbourne in particular in very weak positions - they find it difficult to recruit for super, why would it be any easier for 3T.

The only way that rugby in Perth and Melbourne will ever grow is by having local players playing with better players, having better players working with juniors and promoting the game. Club players will get better when the best get a chance in 3T and when they go back to their local club, they bring that improvement with them.

EDIT: I'm thinking long term not what happens in 2014 and 2015.

 

[Dave Beat]

We are a niche sport, not a particularly popular one. As I said earlier, and will say again, having some locals in a franchise with which local supporters can identify will be better than the alternative. Rugby is still, to a large extent, a game for amateurs and volunteers, in this country. Some of us have a different mindset from people who are attracted to mass media events sponsored by KFC.

Spot on.
I know and agree time is involved, but I think the Force and the Rebs should look at graduating players from the local as fast as possible.

I do think guidelines on progression need to be implemented at the start, I.e. number of local players that need to be drafted - and this would change from year to year.
I also think including an U21 team in the comp will assist in this development as the 18, 19, 20 year are being exposed to quality rugby far earlier than they otherwise would be. Plus it provides the school leavers with a platform they can build off.

This Big Bash League - I'd prefer test cricket any day.

 

[Quick Hands]

Spot on.
I know and agree time is involved, but I think the Force and the Rebs should look at graduating players from the local as fast as possible.

And there has to be an incentive for them to do so. Allowing them to import players from Sydney and Brisbane to fill gaps means they will be less likely to invest in the local club comps of Melbourne and Perth and also won't help to energise the local rugby communities.