3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[Inside Shoulder]

Here's another thought - that the two Brisbane sides not be selected along the lines of North and South but by an IPL type auction. In fact maybe that's how all of the sides should be selected let's put the best 300 non-Wallaby players in the country in a pile and let 8 teams spread across the nation select in an auction like process to fill a squad of 30 payers each. If injury impacts on a side then they can call on the 60 left overs.

It seems to work in the Big Bash League where players from outside the state play for the respective capital city teams.

In fact it makes it interesting to see Qld Bulls play for teams other than the Brisbane Heat.

Except where's the money to play a bloke to move from Brisbane to Perth??

 

[Tigers Tale]

Except where's the money to play a bloke to move from Brisbane to Perth??

Well where is the money coming from to pay any of the players?

They only have to be out of town for 3 months, and I would say that the Force and the Rebels NRC sides will potentially be the best funded teams in the comp.

Clearly the objective is to get all of the best non-wallabies playing in this competition. If things develop well for the competition then we may even see the day when each team has a marquee (ex-international) player or two in their side. Don't the NZRU use a pool of talent approach in terms of player/coach allocation.

By taking the clubs out of the equation you don't destablize the Shute Shield and the Qld Premier Rugby Competitions which apart from Sydney Uni's dominance (which I see as an outsider as an opportunity for others to aspire to) aren't broken so don't touch them.

At the end of the day not many true "club" (non s15 contracted) players will feature in this competition.

 

[Quick Hands]

Well where is the money coming from to pay any of the players?

They only have to be out of town for 3 months, and I would say that the Force and the Rebels NRC sides will potentially be the best funded teams in the comp.

Clearly the objective is to get all of the best non-wallabies playing in this competition. If things develop well for the competition then we may even see the day when each team has a marquee (ex-international) player or two in their side. Don't the NZRU use a pool of talent approach in terms of player/coach allocation.

By taking the clubs out of the equation you don't destablize the Shute Shield and the Qld Premier Rugby Competitions which apart from Sydney Uni's dominance (which I see as an outsider as an opportunity for others to aspire to) aren't broken so don't touch them.

At the end of the day not many true "club" (non s15 contracted) players will feature in this competition.

I think at least part of the reason that the clubs have been given the opportunity to become involved is to energise the grass roots.

 

[I like to watch]

Well where is the money coming from to pay any of the players?

They only have to be out of town for 3 months, and I would say that the Force and the Rebels NRC sides will potentially be the best funded teams in the comp.

Clearly the objective is to get all of the best non-wallabies playing in this competition. If things develop well for the competition then we may even see the day when each team has a marquee (ex-international) player or two in their side. Don't the NZRU use a pool of talent approach in terms of player/coach allocation.

By taking the clubs out of the equation you don't destablize the Shute Shield and the Qld Premier Rugby Competitions which apart from Sydney Uni's dominance (which I see as an outsider as an opportunity for others to aspire to) aren't broken so don't touch them.

At the end of the day not many true "club" (non s15 contracted) players will feature in this competition.

You can't impose a draft on players in what is essentially an amateur competition.
It is not realistic to expect players to move interstate,leave their existing accommodation and employment and pay them $5 or $10k.
The object of the comp is broaden the player base,not to chase players out of the game.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Plus my maths tells me that there are going to be 30-60 uncontracted players playing

 

[lily]

Do the ARU know that it is January 2014 not 2013 and that this competition starts shortly. 3rd tier for the sake of it will not work if it is rushed through.

 

[Quick Hands]

Do the ARU know that it is January 2014 not 2013 and that this competition starts shortly. 3rd tier for the sake of it will not work if it is rushed through.

One hopes that they have at least worked out a start date and finish dates based on 8, 9 and 10 team competitions and whether the thing will be in pools or not. All the school systems have had their draw out for 2014 for a couple of months. Constructing a draw in itself isn't that hard, but the later it's left ground availability and other logistical matters become more complex.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Plus my maths tells me that there are going to be 30-60 uncontracted players playing

Depends on your definition of uncontracted players. I think it will be more than 100. There are 175 contracted players in the franchises including EPS. I think that you can take out at least 60 due to Wallabies squad, injuries and those that have decided to go overseas for their next contract (eg Barnes, Mitchell this year). On the assumption of 8 squads of 30, that leaves 125 to filled by uncontracted players. If there are 9 or 10 teams, the numbers will obviously rise.

 

[Quick Hands]

Depends on your definition of uncontracted players. I think it will be more than 100. There are 175 contracted players in the franchises including EPS. I think that you can take out at least 60 due to Wallabies squad, injuries and those that have decided to go overseas for their next contract (eg Barnes, Mitchell this year). On the assumption of 8 squads of 30, that leaves 125 to filled by uncontracted players. If there are 9 or 10 teams, the numbers will obviously rise.

There will certainly be a significant number, which I think is a good thing. The more players playing at a higher level and gaining knowledge and skills from playing with and against super players has to be a good thing for Australian rugby.

 

[Forcefield]

Depends on your definition of uncontracted players. I think it will be more than 100. There are 175 contracted players in the franchises including EPS. I think that you can take out at least 60 due to Wallabies squad, injuries and those that have decided to go overseas for their next contract (eg Barnes, Mitchell this year). On the assumption of 8 squads of 30, that leaves 125 to filled by uncontracted players. If there are 9 or 10 teams, the numbers will obviously rise.

I reckon that'd be a pretty conservative estimate. I'd be surprised if 50% or more of each squad (Rebels, Brumbies and Force teams included) being made up of EPS, Wider Training or Club players.

Where is the money coming from to pay for them? I think the point of the competition is that, yes there is a little bit of money in it for players, the reward is a shot at a Super Rugby contract. I know there are a lot of older guys who have made good as experienced recruits from club rugby (Samo, Beau Robinson, Scott Fardy come to mind), but surely this competition is more aimed at those 19-23 year olds. The concept that Bill Pulver had of aligning these teams roughly to Universities would be that maybe tuition fees could be covered as part of the playing agreement or some similar kind of deal.

 

[Braveheart81]

Depends on your definition of uncontracted players. I think it will be more than 100. There are 175 contracted players in the franchises including EPS. I think that you can take out at least 60 due to Wallabies squad, injuries and those that have decided to go overseas for their next contract (eg Barnes, Mitchell this year). On the assumption of 8 squads of 30, that leaves 125 to filled by uncontracted players. If there are 9 or 10 teams, the numbers will obviously rise.

Part of the benefit of this will surely be that the Super Rugby contracted players who receive very little game time during the Super Rugby season will be front and centre during the 3rd tier competition.

That should help those guys bridge the gap from being at the bottom of the Super Rugby heap to pushing for more matchday participation in 2015 and beyond.

 

[boyo]

Depends on your definition of uncontracted players. I think it will be more than 100. There are 175 contracted players in the franchises including EPS. I think that you can take out at least 60 due to Wallabies squad, injuries and those that have decided to go overseas for their next contract (eg Barnes, Mitchell this year). On the assumption of 8 squads of 30, that leaves 125 to filled by uncontracted players. If there are 9 or 10 teams, the numbers will obviously rise.

There will be those that are in Team Rehab'

 

[I like to watch]

I reckon that'd be a pretty conservative estimate. I'd be surprised if 50% or more of each squad (Rebels, Brumbies and Force teams included) being made up of EPS, Wider Training or Club players.

Where is the money coming from to pay for them? I think the point of the competition is that, yes there is a little bit of money in it for players, the reward is a shot at a Super Rugby contract. I know there are a lot of older guys who have made good as experienced recruits from club rugby (Samo, Beau Robinson, Scott Fardy come to mind), but surely this competition is more aimed at those 19-23 year olds. The concept that Bill Pulver had of aligning these teams roughly to Universities would be that maybe tuition fees could be covered as part of the playing agreement or some similar kind of deal.

I don't understand this recurring theme,that aligning a franchise with a Uni,will automatically result in boundless scholarships.
If any of the Uni's were of that mindset,they would already be providing scholarships to talented Rugby players wouldn't they ?
I think that a thought bubble is more accurate than a concept,in regards to Bill's musings on Rugby & Universities.

 

[Quick Hands]

Part of the benefit of this will surely be that the Super Rugby contracted players who receive very little game time during the Super Rugby season will be front and centre during the 3rd tier competition.

That should help those guys bridge the gap from being at the bottom of the Super Rugby heap to pushing for more matchday participation in 2015 and beyond.

And the 19-23 year olds who are good enough will also get a run.

 

[Quick Hands]

I don't understand this recurring theme,that aligning a franchise with a Uni,will automatically result in boundless scholarships.
If any of the Uni's were of that mindset,they would already be providing scholarships to talented Rugby players wouldn't they ?
I think that a thought bubble is more accurate than a concept,in regards to Bill's musings on Rugby & Universities.

UNSW have been out of the top division for 30 years. They've made no attempt to get back that I can remember, surely they could have followed the SU model and been back in Shute Shield 10 years ago if they were of that mind.

Attempting to do it on the cheap through the university sector would be a complete abdication of responsiblity by the ARU, although that have outsourced junior development to the private school sector - so who knows?

 

[wamberal]

Attempting to do it on the cheap through the university sector would be a complete abdication of responsiblity by the ARU, although that have outsourced junior development to the private school sector - so who knows?

What's wrong with piggy-backing on the ample wallets of the private school chaps? (It's good enough for NRL clubs, it is certainly good enough for us, I would have thought).

The state school sector has produced a few pretty handy rugby players over the years too.


No doubt if funds were not strictly limited by the realities of life, the ARU could spend a lot more on nice things like junior development. However, reality tells us that funds are strictly limited. So what is the practical alternative to the current situation?

 

[Quick Hands]

What's wrong with piggy-backing on the ample wallets of the private school chaps? (It's good enough for NRL clubs, it is certainly good enough for us, I would have thought).

The state school sector has produced a few pretty handy rugby players over the years too.


No doubt if funds were not strictly limited by the realities of life, the ARU could spend a lot more on nice things like junior development. However, reality tells us that funds are strictly limited. So what is the practical alternative to the current situation?

NRL clubs develop their own talent in-house. Each NRL club runs their own elite programmes and aren't particularly fussed with where the boys go to school. Usually they are put into private schools when the family live at a remote location and need to board or the family ask for education as part of the package. That way the league clubs and rugby league in general control their own destiny. Private school rugby programmes have expanded to meet the vacuum left by rugby governing bodies in player development to the extent where now the SJRU can barely run competitions in the older age groups. This puts our destiny in the hands of school principals and rugby directors, who are primarily interested in winning 1st XV trophies rather than test matches. It also means that our talent base is shrinking despite the general population rising. Most of the junior rugby talent in Sydney is now concentrated into 6 of the 8 GPS schools, 4 of the 6 CAS schools and 2 ISA schools. Hardly enough for the Waratahs and Wallabies. The State schools sector produces very few rep rugby players now and those it does produce are swept up by the private schools by Year 9.

3T is part of the solution, as is strenthening the junior clubs - the latter will take a while as they have been allowed to wither in many areas of Sydney.

 

[Forcefield]

I don't understand this recurring theme,that aligning a franchise with a Uni,will automatically result in boundless scholarships.
If any of the Uni's were of that mindset,they would already be providing scholarships to talented Rugby players wouldn't they ?
I think that a thought bubble is more accurate than a concept,in regards to Bill's musings on Rugby & Universities.

We aren't talking about boundless scholarships. We are talking 5-6 a year and they don't necessarily have to be massive.

Why would Universities already be giving away free scholarships unless they benefited somehow (i.e. Part of a naming rights sponsorship package)?

 

[Dave Beat]

I reckon that'd be a pretty conservative estimate. I'd be surprised if 50% or more of each squad (Rebels, Brumbies and Force teams included) being made up of EPS, Wider Training or Club players.

Serious, at best there are a handful of Wallabies from the Rebs and / or the Force. Both franchises say they own the players and will not relenguish them back to there premership / shute clubs - so where seriously do you think they'd play then?

Squad of 35 (inc EPS), less 5 Wob's = 30, there would have to be circa 15 injuries to achieve your 50%.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Serious, at best there are a handful of Wallabies from the Rebs and / or the Force. Both franchises say they own the players and will not relenguish them back to there premership / shute clubs - so where seriously do you think they'd play then?

Squad of 35 (inc EPS), less 5 Wob's = 30, there would have to be circa 15 injuries to achieve your 50%.

This is the reason there is little to no interest in WA or VIC in what we are agonising over in this thread (for them this is almost the same tier, let alone a 2nd or 3rd tier).
If I were a cynic I'd say that the Sydney JV's are being asked to unearth and develop the cannon fodder for the Rebels and Force for no reward.
Luckily I am not a cynic.