3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[Tigers Tale]

Just from a Queensland perspective there seems to be a lot of anxiety surrounding the make up of the Brisbane North ans South side and whether the weaker clubs are going to get fair representation - someone on the 2014 Qld Premier Grade forum suggested that there be quotas but it certainly begs the question whats in it for the boards, players and supporters of the weaker club - why would they be wanting to contribute financially to joint venture sides?

Here is a piece I posted on the Qld Forum -

Big Dog at the end of the day there aren't going to be many spots in the Bne North & South sides after you put the Reds squad players in for example if the South side consists of Sunnybank, Easts, South & Gold Coast there certainly is not going to be many Gold Coast Breakers in the side unless you enforce an apartheid like quota system which they just won't/can't implement.

Reds that will make up the core of the South Brisbane side:

1 Greg Holmes (SNB)
2 Albert Anae (SNB)
3 Phil Daley (GC)
4 Blake Enever (E)
5 ??
6 Ed Quirk(E)
7 Beau Robinson (S)
8 Jake Schatz (SNB)
9 Ben Lucas (SNB)
10 UJ Sueteni (E)
11
12 Ben Tapuai (SNB)
13 Chris F-Sautia (S)
14 Jonah Placid (E)
15 Aidan Toua (E)

If Lachlan Turner turns out for one of the southside clubs then he would be at 14/15, and Shannon Walker (E) could take the 11.

This just demonstrates that there just isn't going to be a hell of a lot of starting opportunities for the Premier grade players.

And the North Bne side will equally be dominated by Reds squad players:

1
2 James Hanson - Uni
3 Jono Owen - Uni
4 Ed O'Donoghue - W
5 David McDurling - Uni
6 Curtis Browning - Uni
7
8
9 Nick Frisby - GPS
10 Mike Harris - Uni
11 Dom Shipperley - Bros
12
13 Samuela Kerevi - GPS
14 Kris Kuridrani - GPS
15 JJ Taulagi - Uni

Also in this team would need to be Rod Davies(Uni) & Lachlan Turner (GPS ??)

As you will note that means of the 2013 grand final sides only Enever, Placid & Sueteni from Easts make the South side (Toua & Quirk did not play in the GF) and likewise only 3 GPS players in Frisby, Kerevi & Kuridrani will make the North side, and there simply won't be representation or minimal representation from the likes of Brothers, Norths, Gold Coast, Souths & Wests, with the North side predominately Uni players and the South side - Sunnybank.

I hope NRC (aka ARC#2) works but I just can't see why the boards, players and supporters from the clubs other than Uni or Sunnybank will buy in and support the two Brisbane sides.

To me it would be better if they just ran a comp between the 5 Australian Super Rugby Franchises with what was left of their squads after the Wallabies. They could use the tournament to trial younger players.

Quite simply if you think that a Cox(E), Mullins(E), Ferguson(GPS), Zangari (GPS), Veresa Mataitini (N), Bond (Bros), Campbell (Bros), Lespierre (S), Muirhead (S), Greene(W), La Motta (N), Evans (GC), Ruoutledge (SNB), Ah Wong (SNB), etc will play more than a handful of NRC games then you are kidding yourself.

Why would a club like Wests, Breakers, or North be prepared to contribute financially to the joint venture sides?

I am sure that the Sydney club considering joint venture sides will be asking the same question.

When the AFL/NRL negotiate their big TV rights part of the money goes back to the clubs by grants - that is certainly not the intention of the ARU and I don't know of many clubs/schools that received a boost from the proceeds of the 2003 RWC.

 

[Quick Hands]

I'm not sure if this applies to the Brisbane situation, but in the Sydney situation if a club chose not to be part of a 3T joint venture there is a real fear that players will naturally gravitate towards a neigbouring club which is part of the 3T JV.

 

[suckerforred]

TT I can see your point, However

Why would a club like Wests, Breakers, or North be prepared to contribute financially to the joint venture sides?

It is this attitude that is not going to help. At some point these clubs are going to have to swallow their pride and support whatever attempt is made to get this comp off the ground. Improvement is not going to happen by doing what we have always done. That is precisely why we are where we are at now.

But let's face it until some firm decisions are made in the ARU, all we are doing here is speculating.

 

[Slim 293]

Interesting story in the Canberra times Brumbies and Vikings both putting in proposals and Collingwood?

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rug...ional-rugby-championships-20140102-307uo.html

It would be fantastic to have 2 Canberra teams but highly unlikely at this stage.........

No doubt the Brumbies-Vikings combined EOI will be the one accepted........

 

[Quick Hands]

TT I can see your point, However



It is this attitude that is not going to help. At some point these clubs are going to have to swallow their pride and support whatever attempt is made to get this comp off the ground. Improvement is not going to happen by doing what we have always done. That is precisely why we are where we are at now.

But let's face it until some firm decisions are made in the ARU, all we are doing here is speculating.

I'd have thought, even for the weaker clubs, being a part of something bigger and having access to coaching etc for juniors would outweigh any perceived disadvantages of being part of a JV.

And if down the track the thing becomes a success and JVs make a profit, it would be a tragic missed opportunity for the weaker clubs IMO.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It would be fantastic to have 2 Canberra teams but highly unlikely at this stage...

No doubt the Brumbies-Vikings combined EOI will be the one accepted....

What I find most interesting bout the article is that it mentions there are 35 parties interested.

 

[Quick Hands]

What I find most interesting bout the article is that it mentions there are 35 parties interested.

Wonder if they figured on that many?

Might also be some double ups as I think clubs could tick the stand alone box and JV box.

ARU love double counting

 

[Intruder]

Besides Vikings and Sydney Uni are any other clubs proposing to enter a separate bid to join the NRC ?

Otherwise an old Sydney Fleet side would be very formidable.

 

[Quick Hands]

Besides Vikings and Sydney Uni are any other clubs proposing to enter a separate bid to join the NRC ?

Otherwise an old Sydney Fleet side would be very formidable.

I understand that Randwick have also submitted a stand-alone bid

 

[Done that]

Several posts have mentioned the financial support to be given by the SS clubs to support the T3 teams & the T3 competition.
I wonder how clubs will be able to give financial support as many/most are struggling to support their own club in the SS competition already ,& effectively
are going "broke".
This is particularly an issue I would think, when consideration is given to the fact that the ARU is cutting financial support to the SS clubs this year.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Several posts have mentioned the financial support to be given by the SS clubs to support the T3 teams & the T3 competition.
I wonder how clubs will be able to give financial support as many/most are struggling to support their own club in the SS competition already ,& effectively
are going "broke".
This is particularly an issue I would think, when consideration is given to the fact that the ARU is cutting financial support to the SS clubs this year.

Mere detail to be worked out in the soon to be transparent ARU future

 

[Quick Hands]

Several posts have mentioned the financial support to be given by the SS clubs to support the T3 teams & the T3 competition.
I wonder how clubs will be able to give financial support as many/most are struggling to support their own club in the SS competition already ,& effectively
are going "broke".
This is particularly an issue I would think, when consideration is given to the fact that the ARU is cutting financial support to the SS clubs this year.

Has anyone mentioned SS clubs giving financial support to a 3T team? Plenty of us have talked about clubs being a part of a JV, but I can't recall anyone talking of financial support. Please direct me to the relevent post.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Has anyone mentioned SS clubs giving financial support to a 3T team? Plenty of us have talked about clubs being a part of a JV, but I can't recall anyone talking of financial support. Please direct me to the relevent post.

If they don't or aren't where's the money coming from?
Surely no SS club would sacrifice one of its sponsors to the JV and if they find someone with dough they will breach their director's duties if they don't send them to the SS club.
Still - the whole things weeks away plenty of time - by the way what does a JV tell a potential sponsor about likely exposure on Fox????????

 

[Quick Hands]

If they don't or aren't where's the money coming from?
Surely no SS club would sacrifice one of its sponsors to the JV and if they find someone with dough they will breach their director's duties if they don't send them to the SS club.
Still - the whole things weeks away plenty of time - by the way what does a JV tell a potential sponsor about likely exposure on Fox????????

Finance is the great unknown with the whole thing. Where does ARU/Fox money stop and franchise money start? Will franchises be given a grant by the ARU?

I can't see any of the Sydney JVs being flush with money. As you say, one wouldn't expect cash-strapped SS clubs redirecting sponsorship money to a JV. SU would probably be ok as a stand-alone, but would they put their money into an enforced JV?

 

[I like to watch]

If they don't or aren't where's the money coming from?
Surely no SS club would sacrifice one of its sponsors to the JV and if they find someone with dough they will breach their director's duties if they don't send them to the SS club.
Still - the whole things weeks away plenty of time - by the way what does a JV tell a potential sponsor about likely exposure on Fox????????

I'm more cynical than you IS.
Sponsorship at this level is a gift.
No one expects a financial return from their "investment"
Where else do you see sponsorship level 8 or 10 times gate revenue?

 

[Done that]

Has anyone mentioned SS clubs giving financial support to a 3T team? Plenty of us have talked about clubs being a part of a JV, but I can't recall anyone talking of financial support. Please direct me to the relevent post.

Well ,after about 60 secs. perusal of past posts I came across nos. 53,54,65,66,87,97 etc. before it all became a bit boring.
How many more would you like?
And not to forget,included in the criteria which the ARU will take into consideration when assessing applicants for the 3T competition, is the financial history of the applicants,i.e.
the clubs.What do you think that might imply?

 

[Drew]

Didn't the kiwi super teams all have the same sponsor at some stage? Not really interested in how sponsorship works, but surely one big sponsor would be easier to arrange than 8 with the limited time on offer. Also, last night on fox sports they aired an hour of worlds strongest man from 1995, you'd think there'd be scope there for more 3T rugby when the season comes round.

 

[Hawko]

Just from a Queensland perspective there seems to be a lot of anxiety surrounding the make up of the Brisbane North ans South side and whether the weaker clubs are going to get fair representation - someone on the 2014 Qld Premier Grade forum suggested that there be quotas but it certainly begs the question whats in it for the boards, players and supporters of the weaker club - why would they be wanting to contribute financially to joint venture sides?

Here is a piece I posted on the Qld Forum -

Big Dog at the end of the day there aren't going to be many spots in the Bne North & South sides after you put the Reds squad players in for example if the South side consists of Sunnybank, Easts, South & Gold Coast there certainly is not going to be many Gold Coast Breakers in the side unless you enforce an apartheid like quota system which they just won't/can't implement.

Reds that will make up the core of the South Brisbane side:

1 Greg Holmes (SNB)
2 Albert Anae (SNB)
3 Phil Daley (GC)
4 Blake Enever (E)
5 ??
6 Ed Quirk(E)
7 Beau Robinson (S)
8 Jake Schatz (SNB)
9 Ben Lucas (SNB)
10 UJ Sueteni (E)
11
12 Ben Tapuai (SNB)
13 Chris F-Sautia (S)
14 Jonah Placid (E)
15 Aidan Toua (E)

If Lachlan Turner turns out for one of the southside clubs then he would be at 14/15, and Shannon Walker (E) could take the 11. This just demonstrates that there just isn't going to be a hell of a lot of starting opportunities for the Premier grade players.

And the North Bne side will equally be dominated by Reds squad players:

1
2 James Hanson - Uni
3 Jono Owen - Uni
4 Ed O'Donoghue - W
5 David McDurling - Uni
6 Curtis Browning - Uni
7
8
9 Nick Frisby - GPS
10 Mike Harris - Uni
11 Dom Shipperley - Bros
12
13 Samuela Kerevi - GPS
14 Kris Kuridrani - GPS
15 JJ Taulagi - Uni Also in this team would need to be Rod Davies(Uni) & Lachlan Turner (GPS ??)

As you will note that means of the 2013 grand final sides only Enever, Placid & Sueteni from Easts make the South side (Toua & Quirk did not play in the GF) and likewise only 3 GPS players in Frisby, Kerevi & Kuridrani will make the North side, and there simply won't be representation or minimal representation from the likes of Brothers, Norths, Gold Coast, Souths & Wests, with the North side predominately Uni players and the South side - Sunnybank.

In order for you to be right, the Reds will have to have a totally major-injury free year. It would be the first one in my memory. A couple of years ago (2011?) the Tahs had half their squad with major injuries/surgery rehab by the end of the season. It would be interesting to review your list in August to see, but I think there will be a lot more spots available than your list. You would also think that Quirk, Schatz, CFS, Tapuai, Harris and Turner were all some chance of making the Wallaby squad depending on form and injuries throughout the season.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Didn't the kiwi super teams all have the same sponsor at some stage? Not really interested in how sponsorship works, but surely one big sponsor would be easier to arrange than 8 with the limited time on offer. Also, last night on fox sports they aired an hour of worlds strongest man from 1995, you'd think there'd be scope there for more 3T rugby when the season comes round.

Still do - dont they: bnz.
Had to be the way to go - 'cept the ARU can barely find their own sponsor let alone one for an imaginary competition with imaginary transparency and imaginary teams starting on an imaginary date in, as Rex would have said, "the not too far distant future"

 

[Quick Hands]

Well ,after about 60 secs. perusal of past posts I came across nos. 53,54,65,66,87,97 etc. before it all became a bit boring.
How many more would you like?
And not to forget,included in the criteria which the ARU will take into consideration when assessing applicants for the 3T competition, is the financial history of the applicants,i.e.
the clubs.What do you think that might imply?

Except that none of those posts say that SS clubs will be putting money into joint ventures.

I know what the critieria say and what they imply - but no-one has said SS clubs would be contributing financially to JVs. Most of them are broke or breaking even, how could they?