3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[Quick Hands]

Pat Wilson would do a great job and any rugby organisation in the country could do a lot worse than having him running the show.

 

[Stands]

Uni and Randwick MUST NOT be allowed to enter on their own. They must not

Ok I'll bite.. why not?

 

[Lindommer]

Because the object of the new competition is to foster growth in rugby, especially areas that are currently weak. For the two strongest clubs in Australia's recent history to be allowed to enter this new growth-encouraging competition doesn't exactly instil much optimism for future growth in Australian rugby.

In the past too much talent's ended up at Randwick, as it currently does at Sydney Uni. If either of these clubs end up in the NRC this concentration of talent will only get worse.

 

[Crashy]

I can see the North Harbour team doing nicely actually. It will be in a massive rugby area with 4 grounds to play at and should generate decent crowds, interest and gate revenue. A Thursday night game at Chatswood Oval between a North Harbour / West Sydney Rams would be a belter.

 

[Crashy]

The media coverage and speculation of participants in January/ Feb should keep the news pages interesting for the crashmeister.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Because the object of the new competition is to foster growth in rugby, especially areas that are currently weak. For the two strongest clubs in Australia's recent history to be allowed to enter this new growth-encouraging competition doesn't exactly instil much optimism for future growth in Australian rugby.

In the past too much talent's ended up at Randwick, as it currently does at Sydney Uni. If either of these clubs end up in the NRC this concentration of talent will only get worse.

I thought the object was to provide a third tier in terms of playing standard, i.e., a level between Shute Shield/Brisbane Premiership and Super rugby, Lindommer. Somehow I missed the evangelical slant of the competition, i.e., bringing Christianity to the heathens.

There is one club that has spent a decade single mindedly preparing itself to participate in a national competition. It is entirely consistent with the way in which rugby has been and is administered in this country that it will be excluded. I pose the question, in a similar scenario what would the AFL do?
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[GunnerDownUnder]

I thought the object was to provide a third tier in terms of playing standard, i.e., a level between Shute Shield/Brisbane Premiership and Super rugby, Lindommer. Somehow I missed the evangelical slant of the competition, i.e., bringing Christianity to the heathens.

There is one club that has spent a decade single mindedly preparing itself to participate in a national competition. It is entirely consistent with the way in which rugby has been and is administered in this country that it will be excluded. I pose the question, in a similar scenario what would the AFL do?
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I think we are getting too bogged down with the pro/anti Uni arguments - if you like Uni you want them in, if you dont well you dont!

In answer to your question Bruce, I dont think the AFL would want a tertiary institute to be involved as heavily with one of their clubs as Uni is.
The AFL micro-manages every aspect of their code and more importantly seeks level playing fields where possible and financial breaks/penalties for its members to keep these level.

 

[Rob42]

Because the object of the new competition is to foster growth in rugby, especially areas that are currently weak. For the two strongest clubs in Australia's recent history to be allowed to enter this new growth-encouraging competition doesn't exactly instil much optimism for future growth in Australian rugby.

In the past too much talent's ended up at Randwick, as it currently does at Sydney Uni. If either of these clubs end up in the NRC this concentration of talent will only get worse.

But would it be better if Uni were in a joint venture with other clubs? Their players would dominate the selections. If you want players to have the opportunity to play at a higher level than Shute Shield, you have to let Uni in as a solo venture - otherwise, good Shute Shield players from those other teams will ride the pine in a Uni joint venture.

I don't think it will worsen the talent concentration at Uni to have standing alone. If you're up and coming and want to play NRC, you'll have a better chance to do so playing Shute Shield for another club and earning your way in there - if you're not already signed to a Super team, chances are you won't make the Uni NRC team.

Or you'll go to Uni because you want to train in the best facilities with top players in a competitive environment, even if your chances of running on in the NRC will be limited. I can't see why the NRC should be punishing Uni for having that setup.

 

[Hugie]

This all assumes that contracted player will be allowed to go to teams of their choice and not into a draft.

 

[Bruce Ross]

In answer to your question Bruce, I dont think the AFL would want a tertiary institute to be involved as heavily with one of their clubs as Uni is.
The AFL micro-manages every aspect of their code and more importantly seeks level playing fields where possible and financial breaks/penalties for its members to keep these level.

Sometimes when you ask a question, Gunner, it helps if you already know the answer.

In Australian Football Sydney University competes in the NEAFL competition which embraces club teams from New South Wales, Queensland, the ACT and Northern Territory. This is a competition which includes the reserves teams from four AFL clubs.

In 2011 when the Sydney University Australian National Football Club was negotiating to enter the NEAFL, I accompanied Club officials when they went to Melbourne to speak to Andrew Demetriou and most of his direct reports. The CEO expressed very clear and direct support for the idea of having a university club in the competition and stated immediately and unequivocally that Sydney Uni would be admitted.

Sydney Uni has competed in that competition for the past two seasons. For the 2014 season the League will be rationalised with five teams being dropped but Sydney Uni will remain.

Far from the AFL not "want[ing] a tertiary institute to be involved as heavily with one of their clubs as Uni is", there are in fact two university-branded teams in the NEAFL. The reserves team from the Greater Western Sydney AFL Club competes in the NEAFL as the University of Western Sydney.
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[GunnerDownUnder]

Well there you go! I was very wrong… I blame all that concussion I suffered rather than a lack of knowledge of AFL.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

This all assumes that contracted player will be allowed to go to teams of their choice and not into a draft.

Indeed, also has anyone discussed whether teams will be allowed to remain in both SS and the new comp?
Hopefully its a success and then the possibility of the number of teams/length of season being extended might happen? What if seasons overlap eventually?

 

[Bruce Ross]

Indeed, also has anyone discussed whether teams will be allowed to remain in both SS and the new comp?
Hopefully its a success and then the possibility of the number of teams/length of season being extended might happen? What if seasons overlap eventually?

One of the features of the NEAFL set up is that it runs at the same time as the Sydney club competition.

Some months ago I started a thread titled "Learning from the enemy - an affordable Third Tier competition". It proposed a competition similarly structured to the NEAFL model, with the Third Tier and Shute Shield/Brisbane Premiership competitions running at the same time. One of the main points I made was:

"Clubs involved in 3T would still have to fulfill their normal Saturday afternoon obligations, meaning that they would have to have sufficient playing strength to field an additional team. The fact that their best players would be involved in 3T would serve to diminish some of the present disparities in playing standard within the Sydney, Brisbane and probably ACT competitions."
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[Knuckles]

I can see the North Harbour team doing nicely actually. It will be in a massive rugby area with 4 grounds to play at and should generate decent crowds, interest and gate revenue. A Thursday night game at Chatswood Oval between a North Harbour / West Sydney Rams would be a belter.

It's my understanding that Fox Sports will be determining what grounds are used. They need to be broadcast friendly to their standards, not rugby's. So be prepared that Brookvale Oval will be the suggestion for the Northern Team.

And no, it's not Pat Wilson.

 

[Lindommer]

If Warringah could ever work out some sort of reasonable arrangement with Pittwater Council Rat Park'd be perfect for matches like this. A rectangular ground with plenty of parking.

It's difficult to fathom why the council are so unco-operative and bloody-minded about rugby at Rat Park; rugby supporters (John Denoon and others like him) effectively built it in the first place.

 

[Bruce Ross]

If Warringah could ever work out some sort of reasonable arrangement with Pittwater Council Rat Park'd be perfect for matches like this. A rectangular ground with plenty of parking.

It's difficult to fathom why the council are so unco-operative and bloody-minded about rugby at Rat Park; rugby supporters (John Denoon and others like him) effectively built it in the first place.

Some concerted organisation for the next Council elections would seem to be the way to go, Lindommer. It should be possible to activate Club members, ex-players, parents of juniors, etc. Given the Club's history I'd imagine that it wouldn't be too difficult to also get the support of the local Surf Clubs.

Most people are totally indifferent to local government matters, so single issue groups can be very effective in getting what they want.
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[Quick Hands]

If Warringah could ever work out some sort of reasonable arrangement with Pittwater Council Rat Park'd be perfect for matches like this. A rectangular ground with plenty of parking.

It's difficult to fathom why the council are so unco-operative and bloody-minded about rugby at Rat Park; rugby supporters (John Denoon and others like him) effectively built it in the first place.

I don't believe that any of the joint venture entities should be playing at a SS home ground as it would give that club far more than the other 3. To work properly, it all has to be a fresh start. No Manly Oval, no Rat Park, no Chatswood Oval, no North Sydney Oval, no Coogee Oval, no Woollahra, no Forshaw, no Granville, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Quick Hands]

Some concerted organisation for the next Council elections would seem to be the way to go, Lindommer. It should be possible to activate Club members, ex-players, parents of juniors, etc. Given the Club's history I'd imagine that it wouldn't be too difficult to also get the support of the local Surf Clubs.

Most people are totally indifferent to local government matters, so single issue groups can be very effective in getting what they want.
.

Given the way local government is "run" in this city, I wouldn't hold out too much hope. To give you an example, Manly Council are planning to spend $15,000,000 upgrading their swim centre, part of which includes a "multi-purpose' pool with seating for 150 people. Some genius decided that the pool should be 1.25 deep i.e. 75cm too shallow for water polo (the closest water polo facility is at Ryde). Despite 75 out of 120 submissions calling for the pool to be 2m deep the council refuses to budge, one of their reasons being that the area is low lying and might flood. The same council is spending $43,000,000 building a multi-level car park UNDER Manly Oval (which is below sea level and prone to flooding).

 

[Quick Hands]

It's my understanding that Fox Sports will be determining what grounds are used. They need to be broadcast friendly to their standards, not rugby's. So be prepared that Brookvale Oval will be the suggestion for the Northern Team.

Best rectangular ground in the northern region and about to get a major upgrade $10 mil from Federal Gov and $10mil from state.

 

[Quick Hands]

But would it be better if Uni were in a joint venture with other clubs? Their players would dominate the selections. If you want players to have the opportunity to play at a higher level than Shute Shield, you have to let Uni in as a solo venture - otherwise, good Shute Shield players from those other teams will ride the pine in a Uni joint venture.

I don't think it will worsen the talent concentration at Uni to have standing alone. If you're up and coming and want to play NRC, you'll have a better chance to do so playing Shute Shield for another club and earning your way in there - if you're not already signed to a Super team, chances are you won't make the Uni NRC team.

Or you'll go to Uni because you want to train in the best facilities with top players in a competitive environment, even if your chances of running on in the NRC will be limited. I can't see why the NRC should be punishing Uni for having that setup.

I've been thinking the same thing.