3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[MACCA]

It disappoints me that they think they should. Easts and Souths have consistently outperformed them on and off the field for at least the last 5 years and by this action, they are effectively trying to shut Easts and Souths out of 3T involvement and to set themselves up as the dominant force in south-eastern Sydney. I don't understand any other reason that they wouldn't be talking with Easts and Souths other than parochial self-interest.

My guess is that all these clubs are talking about a link.
The selection criteria is the criteria that will determine who gets the nod - the on field performance in 1st grade Shute Shield for the last 5 years is not the selection criteria. From memory, the criteria includes the management of juniors and pathway the Club has, the management structure it has in place plus some others. On the last 2 points, the Wicks meets the selection criteria and exceeds Souths & Easts.
In any event, I reckon there will be a consortia put together that may will include the 3 clubs.
Does anyone have the selection criteria that they can publish here?

 

[Jets]

Exactly, so the teams put forward need to be a merger of existing clubs?
Pick a squad of club players and a coaching staff from the feeder teams.
I think the ARU have messed-up in asking for bids, we should have four NSW teams - three merged clubs (4 Shute shield temas each) and the Cockatoos.
Spread games round the "home grounds" and maybe play a couple of double/triple headers at SFS.

What makes you think NSW Country want a team? They wouldn't have the money and the logistics would be horrendous.

 

[Quick Hands]

My guess is that all these clubs are talking about a link.
The selection criteria is the criteria that will determine who gets the nod - the on field performance in 1st grade Shute Shield for the last 5 years is not the selection criteria. From memory, the criteria includes the management of juniors and pathway the Club has, the management structure it has in place plus some others. On the last 2 points, the Wicks meets the selection criteria and exceeds Souths & Easts.
In any event, I reckon there will be a consortia put together that may will include the 3 clubs.
Does anyone have the selection criteria that they can publish here?

No, on field performance is not part of the selection criteria, but it generally reflects good off field management (admin and finance ) good structures and player development. Clubs with these are almost always the ones who succeed. Randwick have struggled on and off the field of late, which I don't think is a good thing, but it is what it is. That being the case, I wouldn't say that their management structure has performed well enough to stand alone in 3T.

The only criteria that I can find are those from the original press release:
those applications will be considered on key areas including financial performance; professional team staffing structure and environment, commitment to player development, venue facilities, links to Super Rugby clubs, and current or potential fan base.

 

[the coach]

Whatever you might think about Sydney University I would suggest they fit the criteria (except for the venue) more than any other Sydney club. It's always tempting to look for hidden agenda's and promote conspiracy theories but I must admit I wonder why the ARU is prepared to accept stand alone EOI if it's not to accommodate Uni.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I'm with Jets. Where does all this talk of a country team come from? It's the worst possible idea ever for a seasonal competition. Players coming from everywhere. How do they get to training? How does travel to games work? Where do you choose to base the team?

It's fucking pie in the sky stuff to even mention teams like this.

And then there's the playing talent. All the best players move to the city for a better chance at cracking it and better employment opportunities, so you're left with the best of the rest. They'll get pumped, getting the players together is a nightmare, there's no home sponsorship support really.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

I think they are prepared to receive expressions of interest from any club/organisation who can help them fund the NRC. It seems to me that the reason that the ARU are saying that the NRC will be break even for the ARU is because the clubs will be funding a good portion of it. Otherwise I don't know how they can claim that this competition will be break-even without stating what level of attendance they need to reach break-even status.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

What makes you think NSW Country want a team? They wouldn't have the money and the logistics would be horrendous.

I have heard that the ARU and NSW country want a team, based in Newcastle and will play a game or two at new ground in Mudgee and/or Tamworth.
It may be talk but I didnt think they would play an International game there or a lions game but they did!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Is the Wicks quest for World Domination a by-product of them becoming Scots College Old Boys?

TSC quest for World Domination seems to remain on schedule despite being caught with their hands in the cookie jar over the basketball scholarship issue.

The lessons of the AAGPS and the concentration of the talented player base into a small number of schools through selective recruiting and marketing programmes should be avoided.

Excellence at all costs is not always a good thing.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I think they are prepared to receive expressions of interest from any club/organisation who can help them fund the NRC. It seems to me that the reason that the ARU are saying that the NRC will be break even for the ARU is because the clubs will be funding a good portion of it. Otherwise I don't know how they can claim that this competition will be break-even without stating what level of attendance they need to reach break-even status.

Any of the Reinhart or Packer children/grandchildren play rugby?

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

I'm with Jets. Where does all this talk of a country team come from? It's the worst possible idea ever for a seasonal competition. Players coming from everywhere. How do they get to training? How does travel to games work? Where do you choose to base the team?

It's fucking pie in the sky stuff to even mention teams like this.

And then there's the playing talent. All the best players move to the city for a better chance at cracking it and better employment opportunities, so you're left with the best of the rest. They'll get pumped, getting the players together is a nightmare, there's no home sponsorship support really.

Auvasa Faleali’i - there are players out there, also a lot of players will be drafted from the super teams.
But I agree it might not be viable - even if the season is fairly short.

 

[Tah and feathered]

My guess is that all these clubs are talking about a link.
The selection criteria is the criteria that will determine who gets the nod - the on field performance in 1st grade Shute Shield for the last 5 years is not the selection criteria. From memory, the criteria includes the management of juniors and pathway the Club has, the management structure it has in place plus some others. On the last 2 points, the Wicks meets the selection criteria and exceeds Souths & Easts.
In any event, I reckon there will be a consortia put together that may will include the 3 clubs.
Does anyone have the selection criteria that they can publish here?

How can you say that Randwick exceeds Souths and Easts on the last 2 criteria points?

 

[MACCA]

How can you say that Randwick exceeds Souths and Easts on the last 2 criteria points?

Easily.
State Championship results plus the number of boys in the Randwick Academy. Look at their web site for the picture. They have been training an academy of 150 boys with 15 coaches for some months. I am unaware that the others have that. Also, Colts & Club Championship results I think would support it - I will stand corrected on the last point as I am going on memory and have not checked those against the others.
The new Randwick Management structure is a big step up - Nick Ryan Director of Rugby, Wade Kelly Head Coach, John Muggleton Defence Coach etc etc. The others are well credentialed as well no doubt.
I still expect to see a collaborative approach. I also expect that there will be Super 15 players available which will change the make up of the teams.

 

[Hugie]

TWaS I think your being way too negative about a NSW and Qld country team:

• The teams can live and train in Sydney/Brisbane.
• Travel to Newcastle, Wollongong is easy, it's a bus trip there and back in a day. So in a season of 4 home games 1 in the Gong 2 in Newcastle and get regional towns to bid for the 1 floater. The ARU are covering travel costs.
• Where do they get their players? The same place everyone else will, returning SS players and Shute Shield and Brisbane Premiership.
• Country Cockatoos already have good sponsorship arrangements and there are many companies in the bush who want to build community relationships. We're not all poverty stricken farmers.
• I think the North Shore of Sydney will have a lot more trouble getting the crowds than the Country will. Sydney siders do not like to go to sporting events, whilst the Waratahs have the biggest natural base in Australia they have terrible crowd attendance. Getting the crowds will be a big problem for Sydney teams, less so for the others, unless of course the games can be scheduled with some property auctions.

There is life outside Sydney about 1/3 of NSWs population and it is a population with a much stronger sense of community and local loyalty than the city. I think this could be worked to generate a strong and loyal following.

Having said all of that I don't think that NSW and Qld country will put teams in the first year, I believe that they will stick to their existing program, and watch to see how it goes.

 

[Train Without a Station]

You are creating travel costs for the home team as well. It is completely against the whole idea of this competition doing something like that.

Furthermore, look at the support, or lack of support the City vs Country game for the NRL gets every year. And that's a one off game against the big smoke. The perfect storm (regular, only once annually, traditional opponent, emotional contest) for gathering support and still nobody seems to give a fuck.

 

[Hugie]

4 bus trips will not be that expensive.
Whenever these types of game are played in the bush by the NRL they draw good local crowds. And they usually play the 2nd string players as the top ones are on Origan duties.
There is no reason why a Country team needs to be made up of country players, any more than a North Shore team needs to be made up of North Shore players. So the contest could be good or bad irrespective of the Brand name attached to it. It will revolve around the players and the coaching staff. The big advantage you have with the Country is the sense of community loyalty that can be built, which I can't see happening in Sydney (maybe Western Sydney as the Wanderers have shown).

 

[Tah and feathered]

Easily.
State Championship results plus the number of boys in the Randwick Academy. Look at their web site for the picture. They have been training an academy of 150 boys with 15 coaches for some months. I am unaware that the others have that. Also, Colts & Club Championship results I think would support it - I will stand corrected on the last point as I am going on memory and have not checked those against the others.
The new Randwick Management structure is a big step up - Nick Ryan Director of Rugby, Wade Kelly Head Coach, John Muggleton Defence Coach etc etc. The others are well credentialed as well no doubt.
I still expect to see a collaborative approach. I also expect that there will be Super 15 players available which will change the make up of the teams.

Randwick would be a stand alone club if the 3rd tier was for U15s but I am sure Easts and Souths are happy with there juniors and numbers etc
The rivalry between Easts and Randwick is legendary, could they work together?
I would think Souths could work with both clubs
On another point what would the player eligibility be?
Have to be able to play for the wallabies or will imports be allowed?
Could there be a rush of fringe ITM cup players looking to play SS so they can play 3rd tier?

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

The record low crowd last year for city v country was 4,655.
Year before they got 8,621 in Mudgee.
The ARC grand final got 1,189!
Highest attendance all comp was 4,875 in Melbourne.

 

[Hugie]

Thanks Gunner,

My feeling is that if this comp is going to work it is going to need something like 5000 a game. Around $100,000 at the gate. Not only the cash but because it needs to look like someone's at the game for the TV. You can do that by putting all 5000 in the stand opposite the cameras.

So the challenge ahead for Bill and team, how to get the numbers up from the highest attendance in the ARC comp plus this was done in Melbourne who are much better sports attenders than Sydneysiders. All the more reason to go short on the number of Sydney teams.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Was the ARC Grand Final on the Central Coast at the Rays home ground?

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

Was the ARC Grand Final on the Central Coast at the Rays home ground?

Yeah Bluetongue