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3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

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T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Any answer to -
Are WA / Vic fielding their Super side minus the 1 or 2 Wallabies they have? Or are they using 3T as they should be and developing their local stocks with the retained marquee players?

You'd hope they have first pick of players, not the other way around. If you're solely developing local players from an inferior comp they would have little chance.

Further, you've got to imagine considering they leave in Melbourne and Perth, have homes, cars, partners, commitments in Melbourne and Perth I'd imagine it would be the preference of a few of them.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
We also have to remember the ARU put no effort into the ARC when it was launched it was simply the answer to a million questions people were asking and then at least the ARU could turn around and say "at least we tried" - I honestly believe it was just a front to hide them and for them to say we tried it - I dont think there were any plans for it to be a long term thing.

I think now is different and now Australian rugby NEEDS it to survive - simple as that - with a 3rd tier comp Australian rugby will not survive in the top 3-5 nations over the next 10-15 years.
Correct, and we also need to broaden our player base. More juniors playing in non-traditional rugby areas. We can't survive with a footprint which is Sydney 1913 in 2013.
 

No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Correct, and we also need to broaden our player base. More juniors playing in non-traditional rugby areas. We can't survive with a footprint which is Sydney 1913 in 2013.

Could not agree more - the ARU cant even place a player like Folau in the Penrith area?! What a disgrace.

Australia out of all top nations have just failed to move into the professional era - just think how good the Wallabies would be in the ARU had a game plan when moving into the professional game....
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
No.8, that's a little harsh on the ARU administration since the professional era. NZ and SA have set up no new infrastructure, they have merely needed to tweak, refine and trim the existing competitions that they have had in place for their existence. Due to the tyranny of distance, Australia had set up localised competitions in major centres.

This has not been able to adapt as easily to modern times and the ease of travel and commercial changes have both amplified it's inadequacy.
 

mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
I heard something very interesting at a junior club board meeting last night, that ARU CEO Bill Pulver is planning to charge each district player via club rego including juniors a $50 fee to bank role the Tier 3 comp...

Personally if true I think many small clubs frankly couldnt afford it. The ARU and Pulver need to find a realistic way to fund the 3rd Tier comp or dump it, if they want to make this happen... if these fee levy goes ahead it will be a code killer... kill off the juniors with ARU fees and parents will just put their kids in another more affordable code...

Has anyone one else heard this? and can confirmed this... Is the ARU to rape junior clubs for cash, what a sad day for australian rugby...
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Doesn't sound like the greatest idea, especially considering it could affect junior numbers which they should be looking to boost.

In the ARU's slight defence, what is a cheaper sport they would go to? Even touch football costs something over $100 per head for half the length seasons.

That being said, the ARU should be looking to minimize the cost of junior subs as much as possible to ensure the code is accessible for more kids than any other code is.
 

the coach

Bob Davidson (42)
Doesn't sound like the greatest idea, especially considering it could affect junior numbers which they should be looking to boost.

In the ARU's slight defence, what is a cheaper sport they would go to? Even touch football costs something over $100 per head for half the length seasons.

That being said, the ARU should be looking to minimize the cost of junior subs as much as possible to ensure the code is accessible for more kids than any other code is.

The initial announcement suggested it would be financed from the savings in closing the academies in Sydney and Brisbane and from the TV rights. But that didn't sound too convincing to me. I suspect the savings have already been spent!
 

mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
The
Doesn't sound like the greatest idea, especially considering it could affect junior numbers which they should be looking to boost.

In the ARU's slight defence, what is a cheaper sport they would go to? Even touch football costs something over $100 per head for half the length seasons.

That being said, the ARU should be looking to minimize the cost of junior subs as much as possible to ensure the code is accessible for more kids than any other code is.
RAU give sno funding to junior rugby... fees already cover hiring of council field s for training and games, field lighting costs, insurance playing kit and clun admin etc... this ARU levy will be $50 on top
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
From my experience of junior league, cricket and AFL this really does not differ from them.

Though, as I said, they should be targeting reducing these, not increasing them.
 

mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
The initial announcement suggested it would be financed from the savings in closing the academies in Sydney and Brisbane and from the TV rights. But that didn't sound too convincing to me. I suspect the savings have already been spent!

yes its doenst seem to be the full financial model... Rugby Mums and Dads will be funding a big chunk of it... the ARU is also putting all devepment costs back onto the states to pick up... from what I hear...
 

mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
From my experience of junior league, cricket and AFL this really does not differ from them.

Though, as I said, they should be targeting reducing these, not increasing them.

Currently a small costs per player is paid by the junior clubs... but no were near $50 per player... There is a massive difference when teh services are returned for fees, this is just charging families to start a 3 tier project which is nonesense frankly...
 

mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
Anyway I'd like to see how they will cover costs this fully fro a tier 3 comp, this levy was recebntly put to the Sydney clubs... Its December this comp is meant to start next year and many junior clubs are already struggling and or closing....
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
You'd hope they have first pick of players, not the other way around. If you're solely developing local players from an inferior comp they would have little chance.

Further, you've got to imagine considering they leave in Melbourne and Perth, have homes, cars, partners, commitments in Melbourne and Perth I'd imagine it would be the preference of a few of them.

I understand why you say that (short term), but I do not agree with you (long term). Looking at 5 + years Australian Rugby would have far greater development if WA & VIC sucked it up now and selected from local only rather than select from QLD, and NSW.

Might be tough at the start and there will be challenges but it has to be about development and the only way the local comp can develop is exposure.

Including an U21 team, and Grade team in the 3T will assist in exposure and development going forward. I think WA & VIC should be able to look at additional marquees though.

It would be wrong to have a State Team or a Super 15 team playing in the 3rd tier
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I've always said that the Super teams in Melbourne and Perth will be a success for Australian rugby when they can produce around half of their players from the local competition. It's down the track and each having a 3T team can only assist. I think it's essential to have Perth and Melbourne in for the advancement of rugby in those areas. Because of the position of rugby in Australia, we have to use 3T to spread the game as well as to provide an elite competition for our players.

I can't see them attracting too many Sydney/Brisbane/Canberra players to Perth for a short season unless they pay big dollars. Melbourne not such a huge problem for Canberra players especially. I assume that non-Wallabies from Rebels and Force would play for Melbourne and Perth respectively rather than return to their Sydney or Brisbane clubs.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Could not agree more - the ARU cant even place a player like Folau in the Penrith area?! What a disgrace.

Australia out of all top nations have just failed to move into the professional era - just think how good the Wallabies would be in the ARU had a game plan when moving into the professional game..
I agree. I think that officials in the amateur era were complacent and lacked foresight, but they were doing it for nothing so we can understand that to an extent. But in the professional era we've had CEOs and assorted underlings on big dollars go not much better than their amateur forebears. Money from the RWC 2003 frittered away with nothing much to show for it, shrinking player base in Sydney junior rugby, almost complete decline in rugby in NSW state schools etc. NSW allowing Folau to affiliate with Sydney Uni rather than Parra or Penrith is a metaphor of what's wrong with the game.
 

Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
Money from the RWC 2003 frittered away with nothing much to show for it, shrinking player base in Sydney junior rugby, almost complete decline in rugby in NSW state schools etc. NSW allowing Folau to affiliate with Sydney Uni rather than Parra or Penrith is a metaphor of what's wrong with the game.

If only, Quick Hands, if only ... This will be remembered for generations as New South Wales rugby's - indeed Australian rugby's - great lost opportunity to correct all that was wrong with the code. And rugby administrators were in an incredibly powerful negotiating position to force young Israel to go where he was told. After all it's not as if he had any other options - other than say going back to almost any rugby league club anywhere or earning truck loads in European rugby or semi-trailer loads in Japanese rugby. Why should he have been given the right to choose which club he affiliated with, other than the fact that every other player has that right?

And it's not as if this is the first time that those greedy bastards at Camperdown have allowed already established star players to join their club. For a start there was Berrick Barnes. and before that there was ... Well anyway there must have been others in previous decades.

Many astute commentators on these pages have pointed out that even if he wouldn't have necessarily been available to play with Penrith he could have attended a few junior clinics out there and signed some autographs or helped out on the barbie, or whatever. Instead of not playing any games with Sydney Uni he could have been not playing any games with Penrith or not playing any games with Parramatta, thus triggering the great renaissance of rugby in Sydney. Hopefully it's not too late to implement the Israel Folau Draft and direct him where to go.
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Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
If only, Quick Hands, if only . This will be remembered for generations as New South Wales rugby's - indeed Australian rugby's - great lost opportunity to correct all that was wrong with the code. And rugby administrators were in an incredibly powerful negotiating position to force young Israel to go where he was told. After all it's not as if he had any other options - other than say going back to almost any rugby league club anywhere or earning truck loads in European rugby or semi-trailer loads in Japanese rugby. Why should he have been given the right to choose which club he affiliated with, other than the fact that every other player has that right?

And it's not as if this is the first time that those greedy bastards at Camperdown have allowed already established star players to join their club. For a start there was Berrick Barnes. and before that there was . Well anyway there must have been others in previous decades.

Many astute commentators on these pages have pointed out that even if he wouldn't have necessarily been available to play with Penrith he could have attended a few junior clinics out there and signed some autographs or helped out on the barbie, or whatever. Instead of not playing any games with Sydney Uni he could have been not playing any games with Penrith or not playing any games with Parramatta, thus triggering the great renaissance of rugby in Sydney. Hopefully it's not too late to implement the Israel Folau Draft and direct him where to go.
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Bruce, cant argue your post however like you, Quick Hand posts are generally structured and around taking the game in the right direction.

Whilst no games were played having it put out there that he's supporting the west in the same way TPN is would have created interest.

TPN played no games but created exposure and interest out there.

But just re read your post and I think you are seeing / saying the above anyway - cheers.
 
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