2012 Rugby Championship Round 4 Game 2 Australia vs Argentina - 15 Sep

[Lee Enfield]

Erring on the side of caution with Taps return from injury, I would say the best centre combination we could field at the moment is Harris and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). McCabe has value, no doubt, in fact he would have been a good choice at 15 to replace Beale. I think his hard running style would be well suited to 15 on kick returns and as a crash ball runner charging on to the ball at pace from the back into half and full gaps, especailly later in the game where he could be used to target tired or lazy forwards defending around the ruck.

 

[Hairy Test Eagle]

I can see the selections working well this week. Im glad to see barnes out of the centres, it means we won't kick away an attacking opportunity so much. Barnes at fullback is also good to counter the territory game that we have seen from the Argies.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think bringing McCabe back in to 12 is good.

If McCabe hadn't been available I don't think Harris is really anywhere close to ousting Barnes from the team. Whilst Barnes was rubbish in the first half particularly with all the dumb kicks, he was excellent in defence (made 10 tackles without missing one according to rugbystats.com.au) and his goalkicking was perfect.

It would appear that there will be huge competition over the 12 jersey in 2013, but at this stage I don't think Harris is close to the top of the pecking order.

 

[DPK]

So you truly believe that is the best centre combination we can put on the field right now?

Are we looking for mediocrity or are we looking to be the best? Horan, Little, Nonu, BOD, Mortlock, Smith and even Herbert. What can these blokes do? Why are/were they so good? Footwork - strength - speed off the mark - short passing skills. It is a lot easier to contain a one trick pony.

I don't think you, me or anyone knows how this centre combination will compare to the great combinations of the past, and I think such comparisons are not productive.

The coach does the best with what he has and picks the players he feels will perform the best within the existing team structures.

Tl/dr; yeah bro.

 

[Scotty]

I don't think I did compare this centre combination to ones of the past at all. I just pointed out the skills that make a great centre, and therefore what we are currently missing from at least one of our current centres. (You conveniently ignored my question as well!)

I find you second line strange when you see who Deans has picked at centre this year. We can't exactly say that Barnes and McCabe are similar types of players, so how can we say they are picked to fit best within the existing team structures?

One thing I will say is that McCabe will go better outside of Cooper than he has outside of Barnes. Provided of course that Cooper has some inkling of front foot ball.

 

[TOCC]

O'Connor is average under the high ball as well.

This is an area the Wallabies really need to improve.

Aside from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) you couldn't say that any Wallaby excells at it.

Apart from been vertically challenged, Genia is/was arguably the best Wallaby under the highball

 

[Hairy Test Eagle]

Apart from been vertically challenged, Genia is/was arguably the best Wallaby under the highball

This is true which is very concerning, especially since Australia is home to AFL.

 

[TOCC]

NRL clubs have spent years working to improve there ability under the highball, i remember reading an article earlier this year in regards to the Broncos.
They had the backs wearing glasses which were originally designed to improve eyesight by only giving intermittent vision through the glasses(sort of like a strobe light).. The idea was that the backs would wear the glasses and it teaches them to try and judge the balls trajectory rather then just relying on constantly tracking the ball with their eyes..

I dont pretend to fully understand the logic behind it, but i raise the point because there are obviously some rather unique and scientific means to improve ones ability under a highball rather then just hours or repetitive actions.

 

[Lee Enfield]

I think bringing McCabe back in to 12 is good.

If McCabe hadn't been available I don't think Harris is really anywhere close to ousting Barnes from the team. Whilst Barnes was rubbish in the first half particularly with all the dumb kicks, he was excellent in defence (made 10 tackles without missing one according to rugbystats.com.au) and his goalkicking was perfect.

It would appear that there will be huge competition over the 12 jersey in 2013, but at this stage I don't think Harris is close to the top of the pecking order.

I would rate Harris as a better 12 than McCabe and if Harris isn't good enough to oust Barnes from 12, neither is McCabe. Harris might not be close to the top of the pecking order, but he should be. Apart from Goal kicking, the only reason Barnes is still in the team is because of his performance in the Welsh tests and Deans likes to reward players.
Tapas is the best 12 by a mile, he just needs an injury free run to prove it.

 

[TOCC]

Tapuai has been injury free and playing rugby from months now.... given some of the other players who have been brought back in the squad after returning from injury, i cant imagine his fitness is the issue.. Its obvious RD doesn't rate him that highly.

 

[DPK]

(You conveniently ignored my question as well!)
Are we looking for mediocrity or are we looking to be the best?

No, and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and McCabe aren't mediocre. But I'm getting an inkling that you think McCabe is

What can these blokes do?

They both have the skills you outlined; obviously not as good as the players you mentioned but they are both dynamic, strong running, good defending and tackling players who can hit the gas.

NEITHER of them are one trick ponies.

Barnes and McCabe both provide the defensive strength required to plug the gap at 12. Also, I recall seeing Barnes running a few crashballs and thinking it was completely inappropriate for his physicality; McCabe, on the other hand...

What I'm saying is the backline was rehearsed with McCabe at 12, Barnes was dropped in. McCabe returning as soon as he was available to the starting side reflects this.

 

[Braveheart81]

Tapuai has been injury free and playing rugby from months now.. given some of the other players who have been brought back in the squad after returning from injury, i cant imagine his fitness is the issue.. Its obvious RD doesn't rate him that highly.

I doubt that is the case. He just hasn't created the opportunities for himself yet to force his inclusion.

McCabe has been a key part of the backline for all of 2011 and for the Wales series in 2012, hence why he is being brought back into the side.

Tapuai has played one test. Unless you've given up on the incumbent players, you're not going to pick Tapuai as a starter until he comes off an excellent Super Rugby season.

 

[barbarian]

I would rate Harris as a better 12 than McCabe and if Harris isn't good enough to oust Barnes from 12, neither is McCabe. Harris might not be close to the top of the pecking order, but he should be. Apart from Goal kicking, the only reason Barnes is still in the team is because of his performance in the Welsh tests and Deans likes to reward players.
Tapas is the best 12 by a mile, he just needs an injury free run to prove it.

I disagree. McCabe showed his class against Wales, and is a proven test performer (see his QF against SA as well). Harris has never been that outstanding at super level, and has shown little in his (brief) appearances at the higher level.

Tapuai has had a few good showings at Super level but I am hesitant to say he is the 'best by a mile' until I see him step up. I would like to see him get a gig off the bench in place of Fainga'a, Horne or Harris.
.

 

[daz]

I'll just lob a little hand grenade here then step back from the kill zone.

We seem to be counter-arguing a couple of fairly significant points here. One is the argument that we are feeding some of our bright young talent into the Test arena before they have time to develop rugby "nous" and the experience to know what to do and when to do it.

On the other side, we are also saying that some of the young guys who are relatively new to first class rugby should be given a chance, based on the premise that they have had a good S15 in 2012.

I have no doubt that most of the young guys we are talking about will develop into good test players, but are we sacrificing short term fixes for long term gains?

I recognise we have what may be called a shallow depth pool (especially with injuries forcing our hand) so I really don't know what the answer is.

Thoughts?

 

[Scotty]

I rate McCabe, but mostly for his toughness and determination.

Goodness me though, the way some of you guys talk about him he is a 50 test wallaby and should be allowed to walk into any side we put out.

 

[Scotty]

I'll just lob a little hand grenade here then step back from the kill zone.

We seem to be counter-arguing a couple of fairly significant points here. One is the argument that we are feeding some of our bright young talent into the Test arena before they have time to develop rugby "nous" and the experience to know what to do and when to do it.

On the other side, we are also saying that some of the young guys who are relatively new to first class rugby should be given a chance, based on the premise that they have had a good S15 in 2012.

I have no doubt that most of the young guys we are talking about will develop into good test players, but are we sacrificing short term fixes for long term gains?

I recognise we have what may be called a shallow depth pool (especially with injuries forcing our hand) so I really don't know what the answer is.

Thoughts?

If you are referring to the discussion on centres, McCabe is 24, Harris 24, Tapuai 23.

They are plenty old enough, with enough years at provincial level.

 

[DPK]

They are plenty old enough, with enough years at provincial level.

Spot on, what they need now is time at the Test level to continue their development.

 

[fatprop]

I don't think playing a non distributor at 12 is a step in the right directions. I also have my doubts about barnes under the high ball, but with O'Connor out you need barnes on the field to take the kicks.

If the argies turn up to play we will struggle, but I think the last two games would have taken a lot out of them.

Barnes is the second distributor in this team

 

[TOCC]

I doubt that is the case. He just hasn't created the opportunities for himself yet to force his inclusion.

McCabe has been a key part of the backline for all of 2011 and for the Wales series in 2012, hence why he is being brought back into the side.

Tapuai has played one test. Unless you've given up on the incumbent players, you're not going to pick Tapuai as a starter until he comes off an excellent Super Rugby season.

He was playing pretty good in the first half of the season, id happily say he was the best performing 12 in the corresponding period. Other players have been picked in the Wallabies for lesser performances.

I would have him on the bench ahead of A. Fainga'a, to at least see what he can provide later in the game.. We are all aware of what A. Fainga'a can provide and what deficiencies he has..

 

[Lee Enfield]

Taps in for Fainga'a would be ideal, I think Fainga'a should be relegated down the pecking order, both for the Reds and the Wallabies. I think the problem is, there have been no outstanding 12's this season at S15 or Wallaby level.
McCabe whilst doing an admirable job, is not the long term solution at this stage, but if he continues to improve like he has, he could very well develop into our long term 12, much like Timani is doing. I am also not sold on O'Connor as the heir apparent at 12.
I think Harris deserves an opportunity to show his worth or lack of, as he has been solid at 12 for the Reds and showed his potential worth in a few games, where he was far better than just solid. The Scotland game was a bum fight and Harris can't be judged on that performance and his only other chances have been 5 or ten minute cameos, hardly enough time to show your wares.
In saying all of that, I fully understand why Deans has selected McCabe, but it makes a mockery of his selection process regarding match fitness and returning from injury. McCabe has certainly earnt the right for selection as a result of the Welsh series, but so did Barnes. I think McCabes lay off was a wasted opportunity by Deans to trial other options at 12. It seems Deans is so sold on McCabe at 12, he would rather keep McCabes jersey warm for him, rather than see if there are better options and build further depth at 12. I am not saying it will be the same result, but McCabe has been put into a similar boat as Horne by Deans.