2012 Rugby Championship Round 4 Game 2 Australia vs Argentina - 15 Sep

[Braveheart81]

Our backs need to put the ball through the hands more.

There is a time and a place for the cut-out pass, but our players too often forget one of the basics of rugby that the way to take advantage of having more attackers than there are defenders is for everyone to draw the man and pass.

 

[Ignoto]

I know KB (Kurtley Beale) has had injuries but is it accepted practice for elite sportsmen to just keep eating as if they're in full training? Doesn't happen to Dan Carter, for instance.
So, where is the guidance when they do get injured and where is their discipline?

I don't think the added weight was a case of having second helpings at meal time. I'm sure having a few too many sugary beverages with a side of a few meat pies contributed more to the sudden weight gain.

 

[Grandmaster Flash]

actually no, he played 2 games on the wing and 13 at 12

http://www.rugbystats.com.au/rugby/super15.html?refresh=1347409581182

Think he was referring to 2011 season.

 

[East Coast Aces]

actually no, he played 2 games on the wing and 13 at 12

http://www.rugbystats.com.au/rugby/super15.html?refresh=1347409581182

Not sure what this link is too?

But I was referring to the 2011 when he was moved late in the season not to 2012. As this article from the Roar stats.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/05/08/pat-mccabe-now-a-bona-fide-no-12/

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You are nuts. I like the guy but he is still a limited player. If he is one of the first guys picked then it is very dire times for our national team.

He didn't even play great in super rugby.

On that point I re-watched the inside documentary on the 2001 Lions tour recently.
There was old Nathan Grey: at the time I thought he was a pretty one dimensional player without a huge amount of skill. But on watching him now and comparing him with the current crop the guy looks like a ball playing genius.

 

[Scotty]

I thought he was pretty good and probably our best 12 in the S15

'Pretty Good' and 'Probably the Best' don't really translate to 'one of the first picked for the wallabies' though?

I don't recall him having much of an impact in Brumbies vs Tahs games, and vs the Reds he was outplayed IMO. Both Tapaui and Harris can also crash ball and tackle effectively but can pass and kick better than McCabe.

We can't have two non-passers in the centres and expect to beat the better teams. It is like that old saying about the definition of crazy - 'doing the same thing each time yet expecting a different result'.

 

[Scotty]

On that point I re-watched the inside documentary on the 2001 Lions tour recently.
There was old Nathan Grey: at the time I thought he was a pretty one dimensional player without a huge amount of skill. But on watching him now and comparing him with the current crop the guy looks like a ball playing genius.

Yep, we talked about Grey in the those terms back then (since we had Horan to compare to), but he actually had a good short pass and pretty good short kicking game.

 

[DPK]

We can't have two non-passers in the centres and expect to beat the better teams. It is like that old saying about the definition of crazy - 'doing the same thing each time yet expecting a different result'.

I think you're exaggerating the passing point, Scotty. Their primary skill may not be passing buy it doesn't mean they literally will not distribute the ball, thus killing any chances we have of winning.

Furthermore, why is it we need a ying and yang centre combo? Because NZ have one? Well, they didn't always have one. Nonu wasn't a distributor when he started, but he developed the skills over time and now has the complete package.

Sort of ties in with FP's point of N. Grey.

 

[tigerland12]

Although I think either O'Connor or Tapuai is going to be our first-choice 12 in coming years, I don't see an issue with Pat McCabe. He doesn't need to play as a distributor, who said 12's needed a good passing game? Manu Tuilagi and Jamie Roberts aren't noted ball players, yet they'd be two of the best centers going around (we can't include SBW or Nonu here, because they can do everything).

This is why Barnes is at fullback, to be a second play maker, it's not like Shipperely and Ioane won't see the ball because we choose a more hard-running 12. The reason the Fainga'a/Horne combination didn't work was because Beale was playing crap and couldn't be that second play maker. That and the fact they both offer little in attack, which I believe McCabe actually does.

 

[chasmac]

How do posters see this game playing out ?
I haven't watched the pumas in the RC so I am unsure of their style.
From what I have read, they have a spoiling type of gameplan. They play for territory with plenty of kicking.
I think I'm right in saying that they have a good set piece.
Do they dominate collisions like the AB's do?
Does their spoiling style result in lots of breakdown infringements?
Who is the enforcer in the pack?
Will the game be like the 16-16 draw with the Springboks?

 

[BDA]

I thought McCabe was a bit one dimensional last year, but he was better at 12 this year for the Brumbies. A real tough to crack too. I will never forget the fortitude he showed against the Boks in the WC. I rate him head and shoulders above Horne.

Once Tapas or OConnor move to 12, I think McCabe's best spot might be to play from the bench. He can provide solid backup for 11 to 15. However we use him, I think he is a test level player that should be somewhere in the 22 over the next few years.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think we will win by about 12 points and will score 2/3 tries to 1.

I think it will be a really physical game but our backs will finally find some space.

 

[Bowside]

I don't think playing a non distributor at 12 is a step in the right directions. I also have my doubts about barnes under the high ball, but with O'Connor out you need barnes on the field to take the kicks.

If the argies turn up to play we will struggle, but I think the last two games would have taken a lot out of them.

 

[Braveheart81]

O'Connor is average under the high ball as well.

This is an area the Wallabies really need to improve.

Aside from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) you couldn't say that any Wallaby excells at it.

 

[fatprop]

'Pretty Good' and 'Probably the Best' don't really translate to 'one of the first picked for the wallabies' though?

I don't recall him having much of an impact in Brumbies vs Tahs games, and vs the Reds he was outplayed IMO. Both Tapaui and Harris can also crash ball and tackle effectively but can pass and kick better than McCabe.

We can't have two non-passers in the centres and expect to beat the better teams. It is like that old saying about the definition of crazy - 'doing the same thing each time yet expecting a different result'.

I would suggest that McCabe is more than a crash baller and makes good decisions, is a good passer and keeps the attack straight.

Just because the game plan requires him to crash it up doesn't mean he can't create space when he gets the opportunity.

 

[BDA]

O'Connor is average under the high ball as well.

This is an area the Wallabies really need to improve.

Aside from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) you couldn't say that any Wallaby excells at it.

I thought Beale used to be quite good?

 

[Scotty]

I think you're exaggerating the passing point, Scotty. Their primary skill may not be passing buy it doesn't mean they literally will not distribute the ball, thus killing any chances we have of winning.

Furthermore, why is it we need a ying and yang centre combo? Because NZ have one? Well, they didn't always have one. Nonu wasn't a distributor when he started, but he developed the skills over time and now has the complete package.

Sort of ties in with FP's point of N. Grey.

So you truly believe that is the best centre combination we can put on the field right now?

Are we looking for mediocrity or are we looking to be the best? Horan, Little, Nonu, BOD, Mortlock, Smith and even Herbert. What can these blokes do? Why are/were they so good? Footwork - strength - speed off the mark - short passing skills. It is a lot easier to contain a one trick pony.

 

[kronic]

How do posters see this game playing out ?
I haven't watched the pumas in the RC so I am unsure of their style.
From what I have read, they have a spoiling type of gameplan. They play for territory with plenty of kicking.
I think I'm right in saying that they have a good set piece.
Do they dominate collisions like the AB's do?
Does their spoiling style result in lots of breakdown infringements?
Who is the enforcer in the pack?
Will the game be like the 16-16 draw with the Springboks?

Territory game: Yes
Set piece: Yes, although they have occasionally have issues with the timing at scrums
Collisions: Yes, Hooper needs to be influential. They slowed the Boks ball down something shocking. Genia or No Genia, I stated this would happen to us off the back of the two opening games.
Enforcers: Roncero and Fernandez Lobbe

 

[Braveheart81]

So you truly believe that is the best centre combination we can put on the field right now?

I think everyone rates Ben Tapuai and thinks he will get plenty of opportunities for the Wallabies, but he has played one test and is never going to force his way into the team right now after missing most of the Super Rugby season.

Club rugby form isn't going to put a one test player into the Wallabies side.

 

[Lee Enfield]

Yep, angles of running will be key, as will be passing (isn't it always). It's a pity KB (Kurtley Beale) is so unfit at the moment, as you'd love to see him hitting the line at pace off Cooper or McCabe's shoulder causing mayhem. The same for JOC (James O'Connor).

On the upside we have Ioane and Shippers who have no problem hitting the line at pace running off Cooper. I can see these two causing the Argies plenty of headaches, especially Ioane.
One type of play I can see bearing fruit, would be having Ioane hit the line at pace running off Cooper, with Shippers in support of Ioane. Ioane will draw in at least 2 or 3 defenders, this will create space for Shippers to blow through and as he has shown all season, he has no problem icing the cake.