2012 Rugby Championship Round 3 Game 1 Australia vs South Africa - 8 Sep

[waratahjesus]

You must have watched as much of the Reds over the last 2 years I (and everyone else) have the waratahs.

Please can the reds v Tahs crap. If you have read my previous comments on bench players you would see I favor impact over steady. Instead of Harris I want Taps there.

As far as it goes for Watching the reds, I've watched them every single game as I have for years and I do every Australian teams. This year I watched them get these results against south African opposition,

Sharks v reds 27-22
Bulls v reds 61-8
Reds v stormers 13-23
Reds v lions 34-20
Reds v sharks 17-30

We're not arguing for any players or team that dominated south African opposition this year. We're simply discussing the best Australian team for the job.

 

[Braveheart81]

Please can the reds v Tahs crap. If you have read my previous comments on bench players you would see I favor impact over steady. Instead of Harris I want Taps there.

As far as it goes for Watching the reds, I've watched them every single game as I have for years and I do every Australian teams. This year I watched them get these results against south African opposition,

Sharks v reds 27-22
Bulls v reds 61-8
Reds v stormers 13-23
Reds v lions 34-20
Reds v sharks 17-30

We're not arguing for any players or team that dominated south African opposition this year. We're simply discussing the best Australian team for the job.

But if they'd had Berrick Barnes in their backline they'd have lost by a hundred points more.

You still don't understand this game do you WJ.

 

[Dumbledore]

Kirchner is the Dave Harvey of Springbok fullbacks.

Not as fast though.

 

[tooms]

But if they'd had Berrick Barnes in their backline they'd have lost by a hundred points more.

You still don't understand this game do you WJ.

At the current rate we should be down to 3 Waratahs in the team come the Third Bledisloe. Thank the good Lord.

 

[Lee Enfield]

Harris offers zero impact other than goal kicking. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He is solid, yes, but coming on with 20 to go he isn't going to impact general play in any meaningful way. Wasted bench option.

I agree with you on this for the most part. He isn't going to change the game through X factor or general brilliance, but as you mentioned, his goal kicking is first rate, it has and will win games.

In regards to his selection on the bench for the Wallabies, it can be viewed as a waste, but only if you take Deans' use of the bench out of the equation. It doesn't matter who the backs are on the bench, Deans' very rarely uses them in a manner which, allows them to have any game changing impact anyway. The only example I can think of contrary to this, is when Deans subbed Cooper on against Italy in 2009 and he stole the win.

Harris' selection ties in with Phipps, A.Fainga'a and every other bench back Deans has picked. The backs are only there for cover in case of injury or severe shitness. As cover and for Deans' use of the bench, Harris is the perfect choice.

I hope I don't choke on these words, but I actually agree with Deans' use of the reserve backs. I think the backs should play the full 80 minutes and should only be replaced due to injury, shitness/lack of effectiveness i.e Beale in Game 1, Barnes Game 2.
The starting backs should be our best players available, shouldn't get tired, so should play for 80 minutes. My biggest criticism of Deans' use of the reserve backs, are some of his selections and how long he takes to make the subs when it is clear a player is either ineffective or having a shocker or in some cases injured.

Forwards on the other hand should be subbed to maintain work rate and rate of effort, not just for injury, shitness or ineffectivenss.

Harris should be given 20 minutes from the bench to see if the combination of Cooper, Harris and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has potential. I think there is a possibility that that combination could work quite well, as he is a solid 12 who can pass and take on the line and create space on his outside.

 

[East Coast Aces]

Not as fast though.

Haha had never heard or realised he was slow. I always liked him.

 

[It is what it is]

Kirchner is the Dave Harvey of Springbok fullbacks.

I hope Kirchner enjoys his footy more than Harvey seemingly does.
Harvey is Captain Serious personified and needs to not worry about whether the glass is half full or half empty, but rather convince himself that a glass even exists.
Life is good Dave, lighten up son.

 

[Dumbledore]

Haha had never heard or realised he was slow. I always liked him.

Ha nah he isn't really, just an absolutely spud of a player. Completely brainless.

 

[Braveheart81]

@ Lee Enfield

I agree with you on the whole regarding back replacements except for halfback.

If we had a decent reserve halfback I think they can really provide impact.

Whittaker was good under Gregan and Burgess was good under Genia.

Hopefully in time White can provide that behind Genia.

 

[Richo]

An essential feature of Irony is the indirect presentation of a contradiction between an action or expression and the contect in which it occurs.

So getting a guys name wrong, when you only contribute his name . is by definition . Ironic.

Nah, it's just shit spelling.

 

[PaarlBok]

Good to see Goosen and Lampie on the bench. Meyers team start to take shape and look like he made the right changes, not there yet. I would swop Steyn and JdV places, Kept Hougaard in 9 , Mvovo on the wing, Lampie in 15, Goosen in 10. Nearly there but at the very least it look like Meyer isnt a cast in stone coach. Duanne Vermeulen to play a massive game and hope he dont get yellow because of the passion stakes.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

How important is this X Factor in winning a game?

Seemingly QC (Quade Cooper), Bieberboy O'Connor and Gilbert Beale are the X Factor triplets of Aust rugger.

My memory is perhaps dulled by too much amber fluid, but I don't recall one of our best playmakers ever (Noddy Lynagh) as having too much x factor.

He simply was very good at his job, and ultra reliable. He won a World cup.

Give me Mr Reliable any day.

I can't recall too many X factors playmakers from any other country that have held Bill aloft.

1987 - Fox
1991 - Lynagh
1995 - Stransky
1999 - Larkham (x factor)
2003 - Wilkenson
2007 - James
2011 - Take your pick - Carter, Cruden, Donald, Slade.

 

[scaraby]

How important is this X Factor in winning a game?

Seemingly QC (Quade Cooper), Bieberboy O'Connor and Gilbert Beale are the X Factor triplets of Aust rugger.

My memory is perhaps dulled by too much amber fluid, but I don't recall one of our best playmakers ever (Noddy Lynagh) as having too much x factor.

He simply was very good at his job, and ultra reliable. He won a World cup.

Give me Mr Reliable any day.

I can't recall too many X factors playmakers from any other country that have held Bill aloft.

1987 - Fox
1991 - Lynagh
1995 - Stransky
1999 - Larkham (x factor)
2003 - Wilkenson
2007 - James
2011 - Take your pick - Carter, Cruden, Donald, Slade.

 

[scaraby]

Campese.?....Horan.?...Good to see Wilkinson wasnt an x factor...Carter? No? Noddy had a few Xers around him me thinks...don't start on the 2007 world cup...that was 1 big zzzzzzzzzzz factor

 

[Braveheart81]

For all these World Cup winners, we should look at who had strong forward packs.

 

[Blue]

Pretty spot on team. Shame for the Saffas JP Peiterson is injured after such a good Super Rugby season. He would have been the only other inclusion I would select in their backs. But they are missing some good players in the forwards aren't they? Where is Andres Bekker?

It was interesting reading an article which stated Kirchner would have trouble with the Aussie pace now shipperly is selected. Was this poor journalism or has there previously been a question mark over his pace?

Yes we miss JP big time but he would only have an impact from broken play because the ball would never get to him along the backline.

M Steyn on borrowed time. If Goosen gets 20 and does well M Steyn;s Bok career is toast.

What has Lambie done to piss Meyer off? I would love to know.

Bekker is disinterested and out of form.

At least that team shows progress in selection. It's a start.

Not worried about Kirchner's pace at all. He doesn't do many things well but he plays position in defense extremely well which is why Meyer picks him in the first place.

Yeah the Shipperley comments are funny. Sure he is fast but a lot faster than Habana and Hougaard? Nah. Definitely not over the first ten or 20.

Looking forward to Vermeulen bringing lots and lots of angry.

 

[Scarfman]

Lots of talk about the centres. The reason they don't pass is that they only get the ball 3 times a game. I wouldn't pass either. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is clearly the best option here and only a complete imbecile would keep moving him about.

I don't like the look of our forward pack. Or to put that another way, I dont like the look of their forward pack. If they run over us in the R&M then our powderpuff backline will go to pieces.

 

[Blue]

Lots of talk about the centres. The reason they don't pass is that they only get the ball 3 times a game. I wouldn't pass either. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is clearly the best option here and only a complete imbecile would keep moving him about.

I don't like the look of our forward pack. Or to put that another way, I dont like the look of their forward pack. If they run over us in the R&M then our powderpuff backline will go to pieces.

Strangely we rarely seem to. But that pack of ours does look a little bit nasty I have to say.

 

[It is what it is]

For all these World Cup winners, we should look at who had strong forward packs.

The Waratahs would win everything if that was the key determinant.....on paper at least.

 

[Hawko]

@ Lee Enfield

I agree with you on the whole regarding back replacements except for halfback.

If we had a decent reserve halfback I think they can really provide impact.

Whittaker was good under Gregan and Burgess was good under Genia.

Hopefully in time White can provide that behind Genia.

I seem to recall that Whittaker's nickname was "Splinters" because he never got off the bench, no matter how crap Gregan played and some of the time he was super crappy! Whittaker was good at the Tahs. Thanks to our great coaches we never found out whether he was any good as an international. Exactly the same can be said for Burgess under Deans. Even when Genia was so completely crap last year in the world cup, Burgess never got a decent look-in.

Unless the mindset of coaches changes, we'll never know if White is any good unless Genia has a major long term injury. If Deans is still coach we will never find out anyway - he prefers Phipps. People keep dribbling on about Deans ability as a talent spotter. As a contra, I present Deans selection of halfback back-ups this year.