2012 Rugby Championship Game 2 New Zealand vs Australia - 25 August

[barbarian]

So hookers have to throw straight because that's a basic. Props have to be good scrumagers because that's a basic. But a basic lock skill doesn't matter because one offload a game look good.

But you are not comparing like with like. Scrummaging and lineout throwing are both specialised skills that take years of training to get to the top level. Lineout jumping is not- it is a transferable skill that in the modern game you have to have if you want to play 6 or 8. So most top teams will have 4 lineout jumpers, and inevitably will only use 2 or 3.

Look you don't like Timani, it's clear. I am not a huge fan either. But painting him as a lumbering idiot who contributes nothing is a bit much. His work rate, statistically, was OK on Saturday. There are issues with his work off the ball that have been well covered, but he isn't a complete waste of space.
.

 

[Sully]

No not a complete waste. just nearly a complete waste. but lumbering is pretty close.
Every position has basic criteria. Scrums and lineouts are second rower key criteria.

 

[waratahjesus]

No not a complete waste. just nearly a complete waste. but lumbering is pretty close.
Every position has basic criteria. Scrums and lineouts are second rower key criteria.

Timani doesn't call the line out though, so it's sharpes fault for not using him.

 

[Scotty]

I think most of us find the selections quite strange when you look at what occurred during the super xv season. This sometimes comes off as dislike for a player, but it is really dislike for the selection process that got them there.

Timani - couldn't even get a start for the underperforming tahs all the time

Barnes - got moved to 12 to accommodate a rookie 10. Tahs backline looked average all season

TPN - Moore was clearly the better player throughout the season and tpn is seemingly no where near full fitness

 

[Scott Allen]

Mr Timms and I just had a good session on the Podslam with Richard Graham regarding the match last Saturday and what needs to be done before this Saturday.

Should be uploaded soon - we got his views on:

• The slow ruck ball option used by the Wallabies;
• The All Black 1st phase tries;
• Why aren't the Wallabies attacking like this;
• What the tactics should be for this week;
• Selections for this weekend including whether Quade should come in, whether we should go with two playmakers, whether Beale should retain his spot and he volunteered his thoughts on Timani;
• How the Wallaby coaches would approach this week after the performance last weekend;
• What positives can we find so we can take a glass half full approach.

Whilst we identified problems we offered solutions to those problems - whether Robbie has time to listen to the Podslam or not, we'll find out when he announces his side, which will go a long way to telling us what the Wallabies game plan will be.

 

[waratahjesus]

I think most of us find the selections quite strange when you look at what occurred during the super xv season. This sometimes comes off as dislike for a player, but it is really dislike for the selection process that got them there.

Timani - couldn't even get a start for the underperforming tahs all the time

Barnes - got moved to 12 to accommodate a rookie 10. Tahs backline looked average all season

TPN - Moore was clearly the better player throughout the season and tpn is seemingly no where near full fitness

Barnes got moved after the season was over for the Tahs. Long term he is a 12 and I want him to play there for the wallabies.

Timani I agree with, he is a work in progress that is taking baby steps, if he ever actually realizes how strong and big he is he will be a threat, without injuries he wouldn't be there.

Edit: think its safe t say cooper was dropped because he wasn't right between the ears. Barnes is and always has been the safe option, I think he delivered what was expected of him in that regard.

Moore/TPN - happy for either to start. There is a massive gap in skill to hooker number 3. Robbie stated several times it was due to combo with the Tahs front row. That's up to him. I wouldn't call the selection of either surprising though.

 

[Paradox]

I am not a huge fan either.

Come now He did ok but I would really like to him smash those rucks.

 

[barbarian]

Wouldn't we all.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

I normally don't condone fighting, but at one stage of the weekends game that's exactly what I wanted to see. Well, maybe not a full blown fight, but for our blokes to draw a line in the sand and stand up for themselves. Not for the glamour of a fight (as there is none) but for the message that it sends - fuck you NZ, you're on our turf and we're not going to get pushed around any more. Sure, we possibly (probably) would've gotten rolled in the ensuing fracas, but it sends a clear message that there's two teams here to compete, not just the All Blacks and 15 gold clad training bags there to be dealt with with disdain. There's nothing that shits me off more than this team than our willingness to roll over into submission at the first sign of aggression.

I agree. I think a team needs more than just aggro but we do have a distinct lack of it.

I'd extend this further. Players having a laugh with the opposition after having a shocker (i.e. Kurtley laughing it up with SBW) infuriates the hell out of me. I've seen club players care more about having a poor performance after playing in front of maybe 100 or so people during round games, for no money, & lesser public scrutiny given they are not well known like the "pros". Beale & co. are playing for Australia, getting paid, & are in front of a 70000+ crowd, plus being watched by many more supporters. Beale is not the only one (he just provided a good eg) & maybe he & some of the other Wallabies just handles defeat by trying to seem happy & unaffected. To me it seems weird. Or maybe I'm just super serious & should pay homage to how much passion locals have for their respective clubs in club land.

Ultimately I would not drop Beale. He needs to get his confidence back - even if it is at Eden Park.

 

[liquor box]

If we're going to start on haircuts, we don't comment on anyone until JOC (James O'Connor) sorts his shit out.

he is in the players leadership comittee, so look out, he might influence the others!

 

[vidiot]

Ultimately I would not drop Beale. He needs to get his confidence back - even if it is at Eden Park.

Neither would I. But maybe it would help him prioritise.

 

[Hawko]

The moment we have a fortnight between matches, then the axe can come out and we can chop out the dead wood. The players should be under no illusion, their performance this week will determine their international future.

Starting with Deans.

 

[Moono75]

I despair at the Wallabies talking themselves up in the press. saying how they are going to stop being nice is just lame. If you have to talk yourselves up, try and convince yourself to play aggressive, harder, more intense and you haven't being doing that since day ONE you pulled on the gold jersey.....you don't deserve to be playing for Australia. It's the reason why the All Blacks have had the Bledisloe for ten years......it means a hell of a lot more to them.

Put the twitter away, don't worry about your next haircut, suit, itunes playlist and just be rugby players. Enough of the excuses. Sharpen your skills, learn to do the basics right and switch on the pride in playing for your country.

 

[Hawko]

Lots of discussion about locks on here without a lot of consideration about what they do and how they're selected.

Most teams run with a tight head lock and a loose head lock. The THL is tasked with locking for the tight head and being an absolute scrummaging beast. He is also the lock who is required to do more of the grunt work, moving rucks ad tackling hard. They rarely have to jump, when they do its to create an element of surprise. Think Brad Thorn and Bakkies Botha as the two best recent versions. In Australia IMO the pecking order is Horwill, daylight, Douglas, Timani and Neville. I don't know which of those is the best choice now because Deans will only pick Timani who was clearly behind Douglas in Super Rugby.

The LHL is the line out jumper/caller and ball runner, who must also assist with the other tasks. He has to push in the scrum but is not as crucial as the THL. Think John Eales and Victor Matfield as good examples of the type. In Australia the pecking order is Sharpe, daylight, Simmons, Pyle, etc. Occasionally, two of one type are played, especially if you have a good LHL who is a good scrummager and works well in tight. You can only have one on the bench so that the replacement has to be good enough to fill in on both sides. But usually you should select one of each type for the run on side. When we had good teams that is what Australia used to do (think Eales and Giffen).

So if you want to drop Timani, don't put Simmons name up. One is a THL and one is a LHL. If Timani is to be dropped then the replacement is Douglas from the squad. He would substantially improve the scrummaging and now Kepu is out that will be crucial. Since Palmer was injured, we do not have a THP worth the name that we can select - the closest we have is Slipper and I guess he will have to do. I have high hopes for some up-and-comers like Ryan but not for Eden Park. The primary reason to bring in Douglas is to bolster the scrummaging at tight head. I would play Douglas with Timani on the bench, hoping that Sharpe stays healthy, so they can share the workload. Neither is fit enough to keep up the pace for 80 minutes.

PS. If Holmes/Cowan and Ryan haven't been called into the squad yet for cover then that is another reason on top of the hundred others why we need a new head coach.

 

[ACR]

Put the twitter away, don't worry about your next haircut, suit, itunes playlist and just be rugby players. Enough of the excuses. Sharpen your skills, learn to do the basics right and switch on the pride in playing for your country.

It's roughly 1.30am, I've been up late catching up on some work. Just went to the espnscrum.com website and it has a list of popular rugby twitter feeds. It seems Quade Cooper just tweeted, assuming he is in New Zealand he just tweeted at 3.30am in the morning. He's a bit of an insomniac isn't he, not ideal for the physical sort of work he should be doing and building on for the w/e.

Are sleep patterns not important for a professional sportsman?

EDIT: Wait, the Wallabies will still be in AUS. Still 1.30am is pretty late.

 

[Hawko]

It's roughly 1.30am, I've been up late catching up on some work. Just went to the espnscrum.com website and it has a list of popular rugby twitter feeds. It seems Quade Cooper just tweeted, assuming he is in New Zealand he just tweeted at 3.30am in the morning. He's a bit of an insomniac isn't he, not ideal for the physical sort of work he should be doing and building on for the w/e.

Are sleep patterns not important for a professional sportsman?

EDIT: Wait, the Wallabies will still be in AUS. Still 1.30am is pretty late.

 

[qwerty51]

I've noticed that too, Quade is regularly tweeting as late as 2am

 

[Joe Blow]

With Horwill and Pocock missing Stephen Moore needs to start. His experience, fitness and attitude are needed to lead from the front.
I would have had him starting ahead of TPN whenever he was available. He has played a big part in the Brumbies revival this year and just never gives an inch.
He will not be seen walking from breakdown to breakdown.

 

[Karl]

I've noticed that too, Quade is regularly tweeting as late as 2am

Sleep, Nutrition, Booze.

They think they can ignore the first two and indulge in the third because they are young and fit and will get away with it. It's all symptomatic of mental attitudes and raises issues about dedication. This apparent lack of passion and focus on personal excellence, the lack of sacrifice for goals that is evident, as much as anything else, is why we are so inconsistent and often disappointing on the field. That and crap coaching.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Neither would I. But maybe it would help him prioritise.

I'd take his phone away from about now until after the game


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