2012 Rugby Championship Game 2 New Zealand vs Australia - 25 August

[tigerland12]

none of it makes any sense at all. None.

 

[rugbyisfun]

Woodc#$k goneburger, Crockett in.

Fack.

Woodcock has developed a rib injury early this week, actually, most of the AB squad has sore ribs after leg slapping video analysis session of game one

 

[Elfster]

I could almost take a loss this weekend if the team went out and played determined, enthusiastic, passionate and skillful Rugby. That the team had go; adventurously but not recklessly so. Put their bodies on the line (OMG...a cliche) ...tackle with commitment, be physical. Shift the AB's at the ruck and maul, and if they linger at the wrong side clear them out with a venomous physicality so the AB's will be hesitant about lingering too long.

Play the ball with speed, align and position themselves with an urgency and intelligence to be able to use quick ball. Use their initiative..if a player takes too long clearing a ball from a ruck or a maul go in their and do it for him.

Play with pride and passion, but in a way that shows that the players are enjoying themselves. And hopefully the players remember that their bad game of the season was last weekend. (As well as perhaps against Scotland..or when they played in their provincial sides in some of the local derbies......or when they played a SA side in south Africa......or a NZ side ), so they have got that out of their system. This week has got to be better.

 

[Scoey]

The Wallabies attack has been in decline since the domestic tests at the beginning of 2011 when Deans decided to ditch any creativity in the centres and put in Pat McCabe, Horne, Fainagaa etc.

This is the curious part though. Would we necessarily describe SMW/Nonu as creative? I know which combo I would pick in a backline out of SBW/Nonu or McCabe/Horne but that is not the point.

The AB's centre combo are big hard running centres, same as ours, yet they're not described as defensive. Neither have a tactical kicking game, they're often a key part of the plays but rarely do they initiate the play. What have I missed?

 

[tigerland12]

Nonu has a good passing game and runs his lines well. SBW is often a creative linchpin through his offloading skills.
Compare that with McCabe, who only really runs in one channel, and Horne who, well, I'm not quite sure what he does.

 

[fatprop]

Mr Timms got it right in his analysis on the front page

The Wobs were just woeful at realigning.

More effort is required from the pigs and backs to give the ball players options and the runners support.

 

[FrankLind]

Photos of Wallabies last win at Eden Park.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/photos/7519421/Eden-Park-flashback

 

[Jiggles]

Mr Timms got it right in his analysis on the front page

The Wobs were just woeful at realigning.

More effort is required from the pigs and backs to give the ball players options and the runners support.

Easier said than done when 3/4 of the Pigs selected are grossly lacking in the fitness required for Super Rugby, let alone Test Rugby...

 

[waratahjesus]

Easier said than done when 3/4 of the Pigs selected are grossly lacking in the fitness required for Super Rugby, let alone Test Rugby.

This seems popular to say except the fact that the forwards who were match fit gave nothing more. just makes it a forward wide issue and nothing to do with superugby fitness at all.

 

[Ash]

A lot of the criticism from game one seems to be coming back to the same few players who were controversial selections beforehand. Even though in my opinion, the controversial selections weren't even close to our worst players.

If I was going to rank our players in game one from best to worst, this is where I would put them.

Best:
1. Sharpe - really solid game. gave away too many penalties though
2. Ioane - only real impetus in attack
3. Barnes - solid without much flair. Goal kicking was good.
4. Polota-Nau - got the lineout right, better than most of our forwards
5. Pocock - not close to his usual best but suffered an injury
6. Genia - well down on his usual best. Couldn't establish any urgency in our forward pack. He needs to marshall the troops.
7. Kepu - One or our better forwards
8. Timani - Made plenty of tackles. Probably his best test so far.
9. Horne - did nothing in attack but was solid in defence
10. Dennis - anonymous but didn't make errors
11. Fainga'a - missed some early tackles, anonymous in attack, kicked away turnover ball with a bad kick
12. Ashley-Cooper - poor defensive contributed to Dagg being open in the first try. Struggled to get much involvement
13. Robinson - poor game, gave away penalties, out of form.
14. Higginbotham - awful test. Anonymous except when he made errors
15. Beale - had a complete shocker.

Moore looked good when he came on and deserves a chance starting due to being a world class player.
Slipper should also get a start based on Robinson's poor form. Didn't excel when he came on though and still gave away a scrum penalty.
Simmons provided no real impact when he came on.
Samo provided some impact off the bench and is suited to being a 20-30 minute impact player.

Some issues with that ranking, I'll just post the most obvious ones.

How did TPN get at 4? If all you want from a hooker is to throw straight in a line out, then you could have selected a few Subbies hookers to do the job. I actually rate Moore's 25 or so minute effort off the bench as better than TPN's entire 55 or so minute effort, as Moore did more around the ruck and showed more desperation. I feel like a broken record on how much TPN is out of form, and has been for a while.

Barnes at 3 is way too high. Another with too much man love here on occasions. Barnes was solid with his goal kicking and defence. Otherwise, stood way way way too deep and more often than not took the wrong options. Barely took the ball to the line. Basically, a non-entity on attack. If you criticse Genia for not marshalling the forwards, then you should slaughter Barnes for the mess he made with the outside channels (not to mention that pass to Beale).

Genia at 6 getting all the blame for the forwards is harsh, he is not solely responsible for a bunch of forwards getting smashed backwards in the collisions. At least he made a line break, had a try create and his passing game was good, more than your pick at 3. If you are blaming Genia for the lack of urgency in the forward pack, then surely you have to blame Barnes as well. The expectation of Genia is so high that if he doesn't rip the other team to shreds then people seem to think he's had a bad game.

 

[Ash]

He saved a try after the all blacks had Aline break and he managed to knock the ball out of the runners hand forcing a knock on that kept us within 5 and a chance of winning til after the final whistle, but focus on negatives whilst not comparing his contribution to the other forwards who have actual reputations and delivered the same.

Are you referring to where Timani watched Read run past him, only for Read to drop the ball cold?

That was just poor positioning from Timani, and it doesn't even go down as a missed tackle as he didn't get to attempt one.

 

[Jiggles]

This seems popular to say except the fact that the forwards who were match fit gave nothing more. just makes it a forward wide issue and nothing to do with superugby fitness at all.

Dennis, Higganbotham and Pocock spent the entire match trying to do the work of the tight 5 and loose forwards, hence why they played so poorly.

 

[Braveheart81]

Some issues with that ranking, I'll just post the most obvious ones.

How did TPN get at 4? If all you want from a hooker is to throw straight in a line out, then you could have selected a few Subbies hookers to do the job. I actually rate Moore's 25 or so minute effort off the bench as better than TPN's entire 55 or so minute effort, as Moore did more around the ruck and showed more desperation. I feel like a broken record on how much TPN is out of form, and has been for a while.

Barnes at 3 is way too high. Another with too much man love here on occasions. Barnes was solid with his goal kicking and defence. Otherwise, stood way way way too deep and more often than not took the wrong options. Barely took the ball to the line. Basically, a non-entity on attack. If you criticse Genia for not marshalling the forwards, then you should slaughter Barnes for the mess he made with the outside channels (not to mention that pass to Beale).

Genia at 6 getting all the blame for the forwards is harsh, he is not solely responsible for a bunch of forwards getting smashed backwards in the collisions. At least he made a line break, had a try create and his passing game was good, more than your pick at 3. If you are blaming Genia for the lack of urgency in the forward pack, then surely you have to blame Barnes as well. The expectation of Genia is so high that if he doesn't rip the other team to shreds then people seem to think he's had a bad game.

After Sharpe I thought TPN was our best forward. I also said I think Moore deserves a start this Saturday because he is a world class player and TPN isn't setting the world on fire. He was solid though.

Genia wasn't his usual excellent self, missed three tackles and gave away two penalties. That was the reason I put him at 6 and below Barnes.

Barnes made more tackles than anyone else in the team and his goalkicking was good.

The reality is that I really struggled with the positions from 3 to about 6. The top two were easy and working up from 15 was also pretty easy.

It was really hard to come up with a third and fourth best player. I thought Pocock and Genia were far more below their usual standard than Barnes and Polota-Nau for example. Neither Barnes nor Polota-Nau did anything amazing but they also didn't do anything terrible which can't be said for a lot of players.

 

[Ash]

This seems popular to say except the fact that the forwards who were match fit gave nothing more. just makes it a forward wide issue and nothing to do with superugby fitness at all.

You don't ignore a problem because it wasn't the only one. If you are struggling for fitness and conditioning at the end of a SupeRugby season, you are being overly optimistic if you think that you can turn it around in 3 - 4 weeks with the national side and no club games in between.

Kepu, TPN, Robinson all look below peak fitness required for a test match. I could add Dennis to the list, a loose forward walking from the scrum in the 25th minute? I didn't see him doing that for the Tahs, so I will put it down to just an off night for him.

Higgers had a woeful game, but he at least looked more fit than the rest. His style of play (standing too wide) is more the issue.

I'll give credit to Timani, he looks more fit than the front row does. He just doesn't seem to time his efforts right, e.g. he and Higgers were putting in huge chases off the kick offs, then he would take a bludge out the back. The backs should be leading kick off chases, not a tight forward (or probably Higgers, for that matter).

Pocock was a lone ranger too often who took a knock to the knee.

The fitness is more a problem with the time taken to get a ruck, the effectiveness at a ruck as the game progresses, and how many rucks are hit. The ABs got more ruck turnovers, and I put at least some of that down to the difference in fitness.

 

[fatprop]

Easier said than done when 3/4 of the Pigs selected are grossly lacking in the fitness required for Super Rugby, let alone Test Rugby.

You don't think that in three weeks of Wobs training that any fitness issues would have been discovered (with Deans' new fitness guy there for the first time) and if really an issue, taken into account in selection.

 

[Jiggles]

You don't think that in three weeks of Wobs training that any fitness issues would have been discovered (with Deans' new fitness guy there for the first time) and if really an issue, taken into account in selection.

evidently it wasn't.

 

[Sully]

Timani is not in the side for his lineout skills and when we have Sharpe, Higginbotham and Dennis on the field he doesn't need to be.

Our lineout went well on the weekend. Citing that as the reason why Timani shouldn't play seems ridiculous to me.

He's a second rower. That's his job! Next we'll have hookers who can't throw lineouts and props who don't pack scrums. If he doesn't win lineouts he's not a second rower so why is he being picked. if he's a back rower pick him there. That's right his work rates too low to be a back rower. So he's a notter. Not good at anything.

 

[Scoey]

He's a second rower. That's his job! Next we'll have hookers who can't throw lineouts and props who don't pack scrums. If he doesn't win lineouts he's not a second rower so why is he being picked. if he's a back rower pick him there. That's right his work rates too low to be a back rower. So he's a notter. Not good at anything.

A second rower's job is to lock the scrum, above all else. If there are better jumpers at 6 and 8 then you'd be a fool to throw to your locks just because they're locks. As I said before, having a big tall lifter is an excellent addition to a line out.

 

[troxler]

Anyone know when the team announcement is?

 

[Scoey]

Thurs apparently. Think I read that earlier.