2012 Rugby Championship Game 1 Australia vs New Zealand - 18 August

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Larkham retired along time ago. Have we used a running game since?

There have been glimpses of it with Cooper at 10.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The Larkham era Wallabies didn't play running rugby either. It was mistake free, build pressure and pounce on the opposition's errors rugby.

All those tries we scored must have been a figment of my imagination then. Bernie didn't have the greatest kicking game, but he could run and pass the ball with the best of them.

 

[gel]

I didn't think the wallabies line up prior to the welsh series would win, but they did. Perhaps it was because the welsh were underdone (they seemed to be), or that they don't travel to the southern hemisphere well (they don't), or that there is an ever widening gulf between the northern and southern hemisphere countries (debatable), or that the wallabies played really well and shut the welsh down and made them look tired or underdone. I don't know, but they did the job and it's part of history now. I was gratified by the results, however;

What I didn't like was that they looked and played nothing like the wallabies teams of times gone past. The sort of wallabies teams that competed with the all blacks regularly. The sort of wallabies team that would make the all blacks think they had to keep their game faces on because there was a good chance that the wallabies would win. The sort of wallabies teams that existed in the 80s, 90s and early 00s. I hate feeling despondent (instead of hopeful) leading into a match because the team make up just looks wrong. I hate having a sick feeling knowing that there is a better than even money chance that I will be watching a hiding instead of a close game with a reasonable chance of a win. I hate thinking that the all blacks would be seeing the wallabies line up (and the seemingly confused game plans that have been on display in the last couple of years) and just saying "Yeah, this one's in the bag!". And I hate having an inkling that the only times we have beaten them in the last 2 years is due to the all blacks not bothering to turn up for a particular game as they thought it was "in the bag" instead of the wallabies actually winning it.

Why do i feel so bad? Because I have fucking had that with the reds for the best part of a decade and it is really fucking depressing to cop. I don't want it to now happen to the wallabies where they are a shadow of what they used to be and are laughed at. The couple of Tahs fans and Brumbies fans here who seem to be very positive (good on you guys by the way) have NO FRIGGEN IDEA what it is like to suffer that kind of crap year after year. The Boks and the All Blacks will not be taking us (as) seriously (as they have in the past) and probably rightly so. This may be their undoing and they lose a game to the wallabies, but that will still not be comparable to the 8 wins and 3 losses the wobs had over the all blacks between (I think) 97 and 2000 as it will be because the other team didn't turn up.

I was accused of not being a "fan" earlier in this thread to which I responded quite angrily. I have had some time to reflect on that and it is correct, I am not a "Fan" using the strict etymology of the word.. I am more of a follower or a supporter than a fanatic. I want my team to win, but am realistic when I see that there are obvious issues that stop them from doing so. I want them to be consistent and play the way that I loved and remembered, not play like the french where they may just decide to win in a convincing fashion once every two or three years (which is what we seem to now be).

All Blacks by 250+ before they declare and send us in to bat.

 

[Jiggles]

Larkham ran. I agree it was about holding into the ball though. We had a terrible kicking game, execution was almost as bad as it is today.

I'm not even sure what people class "running rugby" as anymore.

Running Rugby has no meaning. It's a vague notion ignorantly expounded by old farts who are sexually aroused by the colour Myrtle.

 

[Jiggles]

No offense to old farts, or those who like the colour myrtle. Independently of course.

 

[ACR]

The big difference is that carter and McCaw are both proven Test players. To have a 'hard trainer' beat them out of a position is ridiculous.

They are both hard trainers themselves anyway, especially Richie.

Don't be so down on the team selection Aussies, no real AB fan thinks the game is a foregone conclusion. Australia always has a chance (at home), and the AB's are certainly capable of an off day. Particularly when they're hyped. If the Aussies are still there at half time, it will be a contest to the 80. Just you watch.

 

[Richo]

They are both hard trainers themselves anyway, especially Richie.

Don't be so down on the team selection Aussies, no real AB fan thinks the game is a foregone conclusion. Australia always has a chance (at home), and the AB's are certainly capable of an off day. Particularly when they're hyped. If the Aussies are still there at half time, it will be a contest to the 80. Just you watch.

Thanks, ACR. While you're being all charitable and stuff, do you want to take Robbie back now?

 

[Scotty]

These selections are getting beyond a joke now.

How long until the players lose faith in their coaches?

Reading into Genia's media appearance, I reckon some already have.

 

[Scoey]

Don't be so down on the team selection Aussies, no real AB fan thinks the game is a foregone conclusion. Australia always has a chance (at home), and the AB's are certainly capable of an off day. Particularly when they're hyped. If the Aussies are still there at half time, it will be a contest to the 80. Just you watch.

Like a breath of fresh air! And it took a Kiwi to point it out!

I'm not sure when we became a massive bunch of pessimists (as a country in general) but bringing it back to Rugby, the forum topics prior to the June Tests were much the same. All doom and bloody gloom. Wales were going to smash us etc. Robbie Deans is a wanker etc. WTF do we have Timani and Horne in the team etc.

We then beat Wales 3-0 and then that wasn't enough and roll on the next Test Series where we will again not even be competitive etc. I actually think it's a bit contagious! Go WALLABIES!!!

 

[Bullrush]

They are both hard trainers themselves anyway, especially Richie.

Don't be so down on the team selection Aussies, no real AB fan thinks the game is a foregone conclusion. Australia always has a chance (at home), and the AB's are certainly capable of an off day. Particularly when they're hyped. If the Aussies are still there at half time, it will be a contest to the 80. Just you watch.

I wasn't implying that the result was a foregone conclusion or that there would be an easy win for the ABs. I'm expecting it to be much tighter and tougher than probably a lot of the posters here!

I was replying to previous posts about how RD may have chosen certain players due to what he's seen in the training camps.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Scoey, it's really only doom and gloom against the AB's for mine. I think we have the game to beat both the Boks and Argies, but the real benchmark at present is from across the dutch. If you want to have pretensions about being the best team in the world, you have to knock off the current title holders. I don't think we are at the required standard yet.

 

[Scoey]

Scoey, it's really only doom and gloom against the AB's for mine. I think we have the game to beat both the Boks and Argies, but the real benchmark at present is from across the dutch. If you want to have pretensions about being the best team in the world, you have to knock off the current title holders. I don't think we are at the required standard yet.

Couldn't agree more for most of what you've said. The one point I think we differ on is this: I don't think that the majority of punters would acknowledge we are at the required standard, until we have well surpassed that benchmark you mention. It's a cart before the horse thing for mine. We will be at the required standard before we beat them at some point but we won't realise it until well after the fact. Does that even make the slightest bit of sense?? haha!

 

[ACR]

The Boks and the All Blacks will not be taking us (as) seriously (as they have in the past) and probably rightly so. This may be their undoing and they lose a game to the wallabies, but that will still not be comparable to the 8 wins and 3 losses the wobs had over the all blacks between (I think) 97 and 2000

I don't think the AB players will take it lightly but the masses usually do. Just look at the week prior to last years RWC final. It's as if 1999 and 2007 never occurred, muppets.

As for SA, well; the criminal element have been beating up the meat eaters recently so I don't think they'd be wanting to take it lightly.

EDIT: Oh yeah, that 8-3 was from the start of 1998 to the end of 2002. In other words, the forgotten half decade of history. Other stuff was going on, you know how it is.

Thanks, ACR. While you're being all charitable and stuff, do you want to take Robbie back now?

No worries, . Find someone else to pick him up at the airport though, I never wanted him in 2007 so he can go back to Christchurch and play with those fairies if he likes.

I wasn't implying that the result was a foregone conclusion or that there would be an easy win for the ABs.

Sorry, only the first sentence was for you. I should have made that clear. It was a critique for the general public.

 

[fatprop]

I am trying to get my head around the backs selected and the forwards.

We have a pretty conservative, defensive back line and a forward unit with a couple explosive question marks in TPN, Timani, & Samo.

Now if the forwards were to match the backs, I would see Moore, Pyle & Mowan rolling out on Saturday but we don't, and buggered if I can see the thinking.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Couldn't agree more for most of what you've said. The one point I think we differ on is this: I don't think that the majority of punters would acknowledge we are at the required standard, until we have well surpassed that benchmark you mention. It's a cart before the horse thing for mine. We will be at the required standard before we beat them at some point but we won't realise it until well after the fact. Does that even make the slightest bit of sense?? haha!

Yep, I think I get it.

 

[Scotty]

I am trying to get my head around the backs selected and the forwards.

We have a pretty conservative, defensive back line and a forward unit with a couple explosive question marks in TPN, Timani, & Samo.

Now if the forwards were to match the backs, I would see Moore, Pyle & Mowan rolling out on Saturday but we don't, and buggered if I can see the thinking.

Forwards have to work off genia - if they work around Barnes we are more stuffed. Hoping for hard tight running and uptempo game around genia in tight.

Centres are their only to defend and recycle ball in the mid field. Attacking play will revolve around Beale setting up ioane and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

Barnes to kick everything else with the odd inside ball to ioane.

I have serious issues with the ability, through lack of fitness for our tight forwards to be able to continue at a high enough tempo, so hope we see reserves early and no injuries!

 

[Richo]

That sounds about right, Scotty. Unfortunately, I don't think our forwards are up to the task. If Palu and Kev were available, we might have a chance with that approach.

 

[Scotty]

Strangely enough, I'm not too worried about Samo's selection, provided he isn't required for more than 25 minutes (and he shouldn't be with a 5/2 split). I actually think he was showing signs of getting back to last year's form in the last two games - and he is a guy that has the skill and physical attributes to make an impact.

 

[scaraby]

The big difference is that carter and McCaw are both proven Test players. To have a 'hard trainer' beat them out of a position is ridiculous.

The issue the Wallabies have is that they don't have as many established proven players at Test level. You replace Timani with Simmons.meh. They're both pretty fresh at Test level. Barnes and Cooper? Barnes just won MoTM twice against the 6 Nations champs. Cooper..1 3N against SA and AB teams that seemed more focussed and comitted to RWC campaign. A Super Rugby title. And he's coming back from a long injury delay (I would have at least put him on the bench tho). Rob Horne, Tapuai, Faainga..they are all fairly new to Test rugby and none have set the world on fire to truely stake claims to a postion.

So who is the Wallaby Test veteran who has been hard done-by? Which one lost his place to the hard-training new comer?

Sharp...then they bought him back...Simmons has been found out at test level after being given ALOT of chances maybe its Timani's turn(would have Pyle if it was me he's got something just needs a chance like the others. )Sorry if I sounded confrontational was just making the point that players like, and I'll use a recent example in Dan Palmer, who front up when called upon on the field are what we should be looking for Not people who train hard ,then think they've made it when they get on the paddock.

 

[daz]

Bear with me for a second. Believe it or not, but I am actually keen to see the manner we play.

Could we win? Sure, but it would take a huge effort. Happy days if we do.

Will we go down swinging? If so, there is no shame in being beaten by a better team as long as we have a crack and played the best we could. I would be very disappointed, but I could live with it.

But I am worried it will be like Ireland, Scotland (x2), Samoa and NZ (RWC11 SF) - No passion, idea, creativity or purpose. Defeated before the game starts. That could be a fan-breaker.