Why is Tom Carter unpickable?

[rugbysmartarse]

People who say 'he would be the worst Wallaby ever' obviously didn't see him on Saturday...

or remember Sam Norton Knight's Wallaby debut

 

[Brumbies Guy]

or remember Sam Norton Knight's Wallaby debut

Giteau's wallaby debut was a shocker too

 

[darkhorse]

I think the point Bruce is trying to make is that while no-one would conceivably pick Tom Carter in a first-choice Wallaby 22, there is a double standard applied to him when compared to players like Ant Fainga'a. One is a laughing stock, the other a reliable hardman who is also a Wallaby.

A lot of the responses here have further reinforced that. Part of it is Carter's doing- the haircut, try celebrations and general nature doesn't inspire people to take him seriously. Also he is suffering from people forming an opinion of him three years ago and not being willing to alter that now he is in good form.

I wouldn't have him in a Wallaby World Cup squad, but wouldn't hesitate to bring him in if there were a few injuries. People who say 'he would be the worst Wallaby ever' obviously didn't see him on Saturday where him and Beale were head and shoulders above all else on the field.

Exactly. He is a vastly different player to than one he was 3 years ago. The improvements he has made have been small, but in all areas. He has obviously worked very hard and that is what impressed me the most about him.

I can't remember the quote exactly, but I remember him saying that when he was in his early 20 years Eddie Jones told him that he would never play for the wallabies or in super rugby because he wasn't quick enough, skillful enough, agile enough, etc. Eddie Jones, as was his fashion, was not very kind about it. Credit has to go to Tom Carter though, as he took this on board, didn't give and showed that through hard work you can make it. I imagine that he has always been average player at whatever level he has been involved, but through hard work has continued to rise.

He does seem to be quicker and more agile now. His pace may not be exceptional, but I feel it is acceptable.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

I can't remember the quote exactly, but I remember him saying that when he was in his early 20 years Eddie Jones told him that he would never play for the wallabies or in super rugby because he wasn't quick enough, skillful enough, agile enough, etc. Eddie Jones, as was his fashion, was not very kind about it.

"Former Wallabies coach Eddie Jones boasts the sharpest of tongues, as Waratahs centre Tom Carter discovered. Carter reveals in this week's Waratahs-Force program that he met Jones at a Sevens camp some years ago. Jones told Carter "in no uncertain terms that I was never going to make it in the game because I was too slow, too small and had no skill. Now that gave me something to work on, let me tell you. I'm pleased to say that Eddie's motivational assessment worked a treat, and here I am," Carter said."

 

[Ruggo]

Good on him for being motivated by Eddie's coments but he still has work to do on his speed and skill. All players have their challenges but these are Tom's.

 

[Torn Hammy]

It is good to finally hear that Eddie managed to motivate someone.

 

[daz]

It is good to finally hear that Eddie managed to motivate someone.

Not true. Eddie has motivated many, many people. Mostly in a negative way, but still.....

 

[Richo]

Cracker of a post, Bruce. I've been stoked with the way TC has performed at Super level this year, after thinking he was somewhere around serviceable last year. I remember one of my mates saying at the Reds game in Week 2, "Bloody hell, I know it's only two weeks in but Tugboat is looking like a Wallaby" and then about halfway through the season, "I think he's been our form back."

I think what your post highlights more than anything is that conventional wisdom is often, at best, merely conventional. Surely TC deserves as much of a look-in as anyone else on the second-tier, should the need arise, regardless of the knee-jerk opinion on the subject.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I think the point Bruce is trying to make is that while no-one would conceivably pick Tom Carter in a first-choice Wallaby 22, there is a double standard applied to him when compared to players like Ant Fainga'a. One is a laughing stock, the other a reliable hardman who is also a Wallaby.

A lot of the responses here have further reinforced that. Part of it is Carter's doing- the haircut, try celebrations and general nature doesn't inspire people to take him seriously. Also he is suffering from people forming an opinion of him three years ago and not being willing to alter that now he is in good form.

Cracker of a post, Bruce. I've been stoked with the way TC has performed at Super level this year, after thinking he was somewhere around serviceable last year. I remember one of my mates saying at the Reds game in Week 2, "Bloody hell, I know it's only two weeks in but Tugboat is looking like a Wallaby" and then about halfway through the season, "I think he's been our form back."

I think what your post highlights more than anything is that conventional wisdom is often, at best, merely conventional. Surely TC deserves as much of a look-in as anyone else on the second-tier, should the need arise, regardless of the knee-jerk opinion on the subject.

These two posts are a good reflection of my own opinion, although I would gladly swap haircuts with him. Thanks, barbarian and Richo.

 

[Nusadan]

Exactly. He is a vastly different player to than one he was 3 years ago. The improvements he has made have been small, but in all areas. He has obviously worked very hard and that is what impressed me the most about him.

I can't remember the quote exactly, but I remember him saying that when he was in his early 20 years Eddie Jones told him that he would never play for the wallabies or in super rugby because he wasn't quick enough, skillful enough, agile enough, etc. Eddie Jones, as was his fashion, was not very kind about it. Credit has to go to Tom Carter though, as he took this on board, didn't give and showed that through hard work you can make it. I imagine that he has always been average player at whatever level he has been involved, but through hard work has continued to rise.

He does seem to be quicker and more agile now. His pace may not be exceptional, but I feel it is acceptable.

Three years ago, IMO, I was upset for him for not getting a look in for the Wallabies squad that year as I felt he had a great season in Super 14, but in the intervening years till now he wasn't up to it.

 

[jay-c]

or remember Sam Norton Knight's Wallaby debut

i thought it was an unspoken rule nobody was ever going to mention this again. ok starting from now
this and the QF exit are the only two things i remember of connelys years as head coach> shame really

 

[RedsHappy]

Cracker of a post, Bruce. I've been stoked with the way TC has performed at Super level this year, after thinking he was somewhere around serviceable last year. I remember one of my mates saying at the Reds game in Week 2, "Bloody hell, I know it's only two weeks in but Tugboat is looking like a Wallaby" and then about halfway through the season, "I think he's been our form back."....I think what your post highlights more than anything is that conventional wisdom is often, at best, merely conventional. Surely TC deserves as much of a look-in as anyone else on the second-tier, should the need arise, regardless of the knee-jerk opinion on the subject.

A thought occurs. I speculate that the ARU may have missed a trick in not arranging a proper series of elite Aus matches whereby 2011's Australia A squad could be fully formed as a 22 and either play a Wallabies side in, say, the type of 'Possibles v Probables' format that, IIRC, the NZRU has used in the past, or have Australia A play any RWC nation that wants a prep run pre-September in these parts of the world, or something similar. The Tom Carters, Higgers, McCabes etc have no post-S15 team playing vehicle at all by which selectors can observe them in proper team configuration and getting real playing time as such. Their only opportunity would seem to be off the bench in a single Test, or simply training with an extended Wallabies squad. Is this optimal, does it expose our 'second tier' talent in the best way before the final RWC squad is picked? After all, it's not as if the 2010 Wallabies were just the ultimate Australian dream team about to assuredly steamroller all comers; some fresh and innovative selections from the best of our non-Wallaby S15 performers could make all the difference to our RWC chances.

Or have I missed some kind of ARU plan for an Australia A (or the equivalent) this year?

 

[farva]

You do make a good point.
Ant Fingers and Tom Carter arent that different in their playing styles. Neither are real attacking threats. Both are excellent defenders. Neither are super quick.

One is being bandied around as a potential 12, the other as the laughing stock of Aus rugby (and one got a hat trick on the weekend too...)

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

RH, we've had Aus A games in the past (e.g. Pacific Nations tournament) and even a selection trial game of sorts. I guess the problem we have now in the context of the Super + Test season is where to fit the game(s) into schedule.

Perhaps the appropriate time to be having these kinds of games is on tour, as we do presently in the NH at the end of the season. So bottom line is that we have provided opportuntities for these fringe players to be tested out and hopefully that will continue.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I would also add, that unless there is a compelling reason to do so, I wouldn't be mucking around with the composition of the squad too much this year. If we don't know who our best 30 players are by now, then I reckon we could be in some trouble in September.

 

[Maroon Army]

It would be nice to have an inbound series for Australia A to play in against a couple of nations during the Tri Nations, similiar to the Churchill Cup. Unfortunetly, it'll never happen as we are poverty stricken compared to the RFU.

 

[RugbyInterest]

Bottom line is that Tom Carter is never going to win you a game - he probably won't lose it for you either. He won't let you down but then he won't do that something special either. Solid and reliable like the family falcon but Wallabies need something with flair and excitement.

 

[Groucho]

Giteau's wallaby debut was a shocker too

Admittedly, Giteau was aged eleven at the time.

 

[Groucho]

Bottom line is that Tom Carter is never going to win you a game - he probably won't lose it for you either. He won't let you down but then he won't do that something special either. Solid and reliable like the family falcon but Wallabies need something with flair and excitement.

A good team needs both.

 

[Henry]

Gnostic - Lambie on the wing? Preposterous. Aplon is garbage and has never performed at Trinations level. JP Pietersen is like Drew Mitchell 3 years ago, fast, elusive, but a headcase with poor ball security. Mitchell was in the best form of any winger globally pre-injury.

Agree with the Mitchell part, not the Aplon part. I would much rather Schmoo on the wing over Pieterson.

I think MacCabe would be a good option at 12 over Carter. Since he has switched to 12 at the Brumbies they have been look like a much better team.

While i have pretty critical of Carter in the past, it is clear that he is having a good season, and is looking to improve his game. The game against the Highlanders showed that in Mitchell's absence (and Turners lack of stepping up) he is actively looking for the ball and trying to play a more expansive game. How often in the past would he have got some of his trys if he had not been working so hard off the ball. (in attack, not defense!)

It is a pity he probably won't be rewarded with a Wallaby call up in a World Cup year as there are still better options available.