Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[Strewthcobber]

I'm not really sure how giving Australian players based in Hong Kong or SIngapore etc. Wallabies eligibility strengthens Australian Rugby.

The bit of this competition that strengthens Australian rugby is the Perth team and any future Australian teams. I don't think that extends to foreign based teams within the comp.

What reason is there that a player playing in Singapore should be eligible for the Wallabies purely because it is the IPRC when a player playing in Japan in the Top League isn't eligible. I don't really get the logic outside of people seeming to think that RA should say yes to whatever Twiggy asks for.

looking at it holistically Braveheart, it would probably increase the quality of the competition, and also raise the interest in some of the other teams, which again might be good for us here longer term.


The issues with this comp has always been where are they going to get the players, and is anyone (with money) going to care or watch when sri Lanka play Malaysia.

Having said that I have no doubt that allowing eligibility for these foreign teams will harm the Super Rugby clubs.

Got to balance up the nett effect

 

[wamberal]

The idea of promoting rugby games in Asia is a pipe dream, to generalise. The game just does not draw crowds.


Yes, the Hong Kong Sevens was an overnight success, but it was a very long night. Ten years or so. Plus a lot more expats in the region are willing to spend a few days in Hong Kong than just about anywhere else.

Singapore? Nup. Japan? Maybe any occasional game will attract some spectators. KL? Nup.

 

[Braveheart81]

looking at it holistically Braveheart, it would probably increase the quality of the competition, and also raise the interest in some of the other teams, which again might be good for us here longer term.


The issues with this comp has always been where are they going to get the players, and is anyone (with money) going to care or watch when sri Lanka play Malaysia.

Having said that I have no doubt that allowing eligibility for these foreign teams will harm the Super Rugby clubs.

Got to balance up the nett effect

You've answered your own question (well at least provided my answer to it).

The net effect would be negative if easing the eligibility issues also meant that matchday 23 quality Super Rugby players left the Australian Super Rugby teams.

I think granting Wallaby eligibility to players playing in Asian IPRC teams would be of benefit for the IPRC and them alone. It would be a negative for RA.

 

[ForceFan]

Fantastic to see the K-Bomb back in Perth.

Also excellent to see that: "Rugby AU CEO Raelene Castle confirmed last week that players involved with the Force, even in the IPRC, would be eligible for the Wallabies."

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/02/15/force-longbottom-signing

 

[MACCA]

You've answered your own question (well at least provided my answer to it).

The net effect would be negative if easing the eligibility issues also meant that matchday 23 quality Super Rugby players left the Australian Super Rugby teams.

I think granting Wallaby eligibility to players playing in Asian IPRC teams would be of benefit for the IPRC and them alone. It would be a negative for RA.

I wonder whether this can be looked at differently. Australia can now only support 4 pro teams. That means about 180 players leaving to pursue professional rugby OS - mostly in areas where they are completely disconnected from Australian Rugby. With Twiggy Rugby, playing in Asia, Aussie players have opportunity closer to home, they will be playing against an Aussie team, they wont be a drain on Rugby Australias money, they will be more readily accessible. Why not make a new rule for this situation? Hell , Australian cant support them, its not their fault, it could give the National side depth.

 

[Braveheart81]

I wonder whether this can be looked at differently. Australia can now only support 4 pro teams. That means about 180 players leaving to pursue professional rugby OS - mostly in areas where they are completely disconnected from Australian Rugby. With Twiggy Rugby, playing in Asia, Aussie players have opportunity closer to home, they will be playing against an Aussie team, they wont be a drain on Rugby Australias money, they will be more readily accessible. Why not make a new rule for this situation? Hell , Australian cant support them, its not their fault, it could give the National side depth.

What's the benefit of setting that up from the get go?
It's hard to see the IPRC being particularly strong in the first year or two even if it does have a reasonably large budget.

Are players that are genuine Wallaby hopefuls really likely to choose to play in this comp and/or will it bring back anyone from Europe who would be in the Wallaby squad (To'omua, White etc.).

I think the onus has to be on the IPRC that it can create a strong enough competition that is going to attract players the Wallabies would like to select before opening the floodgates to making foreign based players eligible for the Wallabies. At the end of the day it won't be Wallaby eligibility that is the drawcard for a high quality Australian player to sign for the Singapore Skyscrapers in the IPRC. It will be the fact that they are offering lots of $$.

 

[dru]

Are players that are genuine Wallaby hopefuls really likely to choose to play in this comp and/or will it bring back anyone from Europe who would be in the Wallaby squad (To'omua, White etc.).

I would think that this means there is little to no harm in allowing it.

 

[Braveheart81]

I would think that this means there is little to no harm in allowing it.

Why though? More people seem to be against the 60 cap rule than for it and in general think we should be winding back Wallaby eligibility for foreign based players.
Why expand it when there is no compelling reason to do so. It seems like much of this is borne out of people's frustration with RA and for some reason thinking that Twiggy should be given everything he asks for.

 

[dru]

Why though? More people seem to be against the 60 cap rule than for it and in general think we should be winding back Wallaby eligibility for foreign based players.
Why expand it when there is no compelling reason to do so. It seems like much of this is borne out of people's frustration with RA and for some reason thinking that Twiggy should be given everything he asks for.

BH - there are some opposing views here - I doubt for instance that you and I are going to change on the matter quickly. I can respect an opposing view, doesn't mean I agree - and obviously works both ways.

For me it is about encouraging the Twiggy Rugby comp. If you are not keen, or you suffer disbelief, then i'd agree with you.

If you want it to flourish then it's time to think outside the box. Give the comp every chance to get up, and then look to how you re-join or at least harmonise after/with the next Super Rugby negotiations.

The lure of WB selection is simply that. It's unlikely to be much of a reality for a while. You are however able, right now, to ensure that the comp hard codes obligations to return players for the internationals. The lure may indeed see European exiles return, ditto from Japan. Yes outside of the Force the players would not be based in Australia - but they would be based in an Aus run competition designed at Australian friendly viewing slots, easy to monitor for fans (and the WB coaching/selection group)

I'm not worried if the comp is not the same level as Soup. Let's say they are able to lift, in time, to NRC level. It would match the pathway opportunities from NRC, but unlike NRC, Twiggy-ball would retain more talent within the Australian rugby reach. It's not going to divert a great deal of talent from Soup - those those players being forceably diverted from Soup might be interested. It will also offer chances to Premier Rugby players that aren't available right now.

 

[wamberal]

It will work okay if nobody expects big crowds and huge advertising revenue, and the person or people behind it have a lot of patience and very deep pockets.


I wish the whole venture well. But then I wished the ARC well, too.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I would have thought with Twiggy's ambition and salaries then it will absolutely be a threat the existing Super Rugby teams, especially if you allow Wallaby eligibility. Even losing the 25th best player on a team list is going to hurt. Those sort of guys in Japan and Europe are why we have struggled so much lately. No depth. Add in 6 more teams and......

 

[wamberal]

So the new competition could destroy Super Rugby? What then?

 

[TOCC]

So the new competition could destroy Super Rugby? What then?

What now?

 

[dru]

I wonder if we ask almost the right questions.

My concern is not at all about Super Rugby survival. It's about pro-rugby in Australia looking for the strongest base for National rugby. From grass roots to WBs.

Super Rugby has been pivotal in this issue. Whether it is the right answer for the future is the question. At this point the near future.

It is legitimate to note that Twiggy Rugby has not had the chance to productively assist the matter yet. But in going forward the same questions should be asked about IPRU as we should be asking about Super Rugby.

 

[dru]

PS Sooner or later I will find a sure way to solve those pesky paragraphs!

 

[wamberal]

What now?

As you already know, there is no simple answer.



Nature will take its course, as it always does. The strong get stronger, and the weak die away. Survival of the fittest.

 

[TOCC]

As you already know, there is no simple answer.

Nature will take its course, as it always does. The strong get stronger, and the weak die away. Survival of the fittest.

But business isn’t nature, that’s just making excuses.

There have been thousands of examples of strong businesses who have failed to adapt to changing market demands who have died miserable deaths, and then there also examples of weak business who have being able to adapt and evolve to new technologies, practices and concepts to reinvigorate their business model and grow their product.

Even if Super Rugby is the best product RA can delivered, there has been zero attempt to enhance this product, the very fact that there is no digital platform available for fans to reach this on their mobile devices is an example of this. Netball, Cricket, NRL and AFL all have digital rights agremements in place and mobile apps available for fans to on-demand life stream games. I know your older so you may bit appreciate the magnitude of this, but’s it’s the reality of modern broadcast rights and has been shifting that way for years.

The sporting market has changed and fans are fickle, yet whilst other sports adapt their product to suit the changing conditions rugby remains fixated on an obviously outdated and shrinking media platform.

 

[half]

^^^^^

Wam & TOCC

Wam, TOCC is spot on and an issue with RA is their inability not only to react to changes around them but to assume what worked in the 60's, 70's & 90's works today. Hopefully Castle can do a lot to add to our digital platform.

But to highlight this on Thursday night FFA played a E-Sports version of the A-League. The early results are making broadcasters rethink sports broadcasting.

Should we also do something similar, this is the under 30 market.

It’s a beyond interesting article in smh. How much can be read out of these figures ????? don't know but tis interesting.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/...r-hit-than-aleague-games-20180216-h0w87y.html

Gamers using A-League teams while playing FIFA 18 is proving more popular viewing than actual A-League matches after the launch of Football Federation Australia's E-League attracted a larger audience than the average ratings for the competition.

The FFA dipped its toe into the rapidly growing world of competitive video gaming, E-Sports, with the launch of its E-League on Thursday night. It attracted an audience reach 16 per cent higher than the average A-League match, raising questions over the direction of sports broadcasting.
Over more than four hours, gamers representing each A-League club played against one another as part of a FIFA 18 competition broadcasted live online. The E-League's opening night attracting 138,000 viewers on streaming network, Twitch, as well as Fox Sports' website, with figures from that broadcaster yet to be confirmed. The shock success of the E-League meant it had a broadcast reach well above the average A-League audience on Fox Sports network this season, which has dropped to 119,000, according to the FFA.

"We were really pleased. You never know what you're going to get, 138,000 people watched part of the show on Twitch and we haven't got the Fox Sports stats yet," FFA's head of commercial, digital and marketing, Luke Bould, said.

While its audience reach was higher than A-League games, it fared similarly to the competition on social media and attracted 1.62 million impressions to the average of 1.7 million for A-League matches. The E-League attracted a larger social media following than any other streamed event covered by the FFA, including major press events such as the unveiling of Socceroos' new head coach, Bert van Marwijk, a fortnight ago.

"That's the strongest thing we've ever done in terms of social platforms, whether it's live press conferences, it's by far the strongest thing we've ever done," Bould said. The FFA, in conjunction with EA sports, are dove-tailing off the success and popularity of the FIFA video game series to help raise the profile of the A-League with a younger audience.

"We're being entrepreneurial, we're taking a risk. We have to be there and for us it's a strategic advantage, there's a million plus people playing this game and we don't have enough fans of the A-League. We can try and influence them through this media," Bould said.

Under the E-League regulations, each of the 10 A-League clubs selects one gamer to represent it on each of the two most popular consoles, Sony's Playstation and the Microsoft X-Box. The representatives must use at least three players frome their respective A-League club's in their FIFA Ultimate Teams. Several of the representatives of each clubs are E-Sports "athletes" who earn considerable salaries from playing FIFA.

The popularity of competitive video gaming has soared internationally and while the FFA are unsure exactly of its impact on the A-League, moved quickly to seize the competitive advantage of the FIFA series over rival codes and hope it will provide a much needed boost to the profile of the A-League. They admit they cannot predict its impact.

"It's not a fad, it's not going away, but it will change and evolve vary quickly," Bould said. "It's absolutely an opportunity to put the A-League brand and some A-League players in front of a new audience. I don't see it replacing sport but I see it growing. I don't think we'll be in a position where we won't watch people running on football pitches – certainly not in my lifetime – I hope, and I believe it will be complimentary, but nobody knows where it will end up."

The E-League will also serve as qualification for the FIFA eWorld Cup. E-Sports has been flagged to enter the 2024 Olympics in Paris. Western Sydney Wanderers lead the E-League after the first round.

 

[jimmydubs]

^^^^^ acknowledged but what is the world coming to when people watch other people play video games.
And no I'm not that old. Just Wtf.

 

[zer0]

I don't do it myself, but fundamentally it's no different to watching other people play sports.