Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[Dctarget]

Hell I'd love to see those guys back in Aus in any capacity, or even just playing in a league I can watch regularly. I know Twiggy is minted, but wouldn't the potential pay cheques for the players listed above have to be >$300K to get them to come play in Perth (not home for most)?

 

[barbarian]

This competition has a major issue that I can see at this stage.

The ARU will enforce their eligibility rules for the IPRC, meaning only Force players are eligible for the Wallabies. Which is fine, but looking at the quality of the other teams it could end up a horribly one-sided competition.

Let's say Twiggy gets his wish and attracts a few high-profile overseas guys to the comp. Naturally they play for the Force as they want eligibility.

So (hypothetically) Matt To'omua, Nic White, Jesse Mogg all come back and face up against....... Guam. Or Sri Lanka. Or Singapore.

Not only is this a recipe for unwatchable, 90+ point games, but why would these top players want to come back and play? How does it aid their Wallaby chances at all?

If the Force was filled with up-and-coming Westerners, then great. But I think at the moment the dream of attracting top talent to this competition looks a bit misguided.

Still a great idea, and one we should all fully support.
.

 

[Sully]

I believe they are pushing eligibility from any side. But whether they get it or not is another question.

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[Micheal]

So (hypothetically) Matt To'omua, Nic White, Jesse Mogg all come back and face up against... Guam. Or Sri Lanka. Or Singapore.

I think this is where people are getting confused.

They're not playing Guam, or Sri Lanka, or Singapore. They're playing professional franchises based out of these places.

What's the difference?

A team of 23 players from Sri Lanka would be annihilated by the 2017 version of the Force.

But the 2019 version of the Force will be approximately NRC level, with maybe one or two stars.

In the same vein, the 2019 Sri Lankan franchise would probably contain, at the very most, 5 of the best Sri Lankan players going around.

The rest of the squad would be recruited from non-contracted players within the NRC, ITM Cup, Currie Cup and equivalent English / French leagues.

I don't think that'd result in 90 point blowouts, nor do I think they'll have problems with attracting talent.

As mentioned, I have a mate who played Australian Schoolboys 4 years ago. He doesn't have a Super contract (but he'd like one) so he's definitely not anywhere near Wallabies contention. Eligibility isn't a concern for him because it's just not going to happen anyway.

Would he like to be getting paid to play rugby at a level higher than the Shute Shield? Pair that with an opportunity to work and live in Asia for half the year? He'd be absolutely jumping at an opportunity to sign a 1-2 year contract.

If it allows him to play the NRC afterwards then that's all the merrier.

I can imagine players such as him would consider it as a stepping stone to higher honours, not the end destination in itself.

 

[Boof1050]

What about the players who are fringe Wallabies now and come 2019 may be their only chance at a world cup but are still capable of playing higher than NRC level ball might start to consider that they could potentially get 20% more in pay and forego the 15% chance they have of playing in the World Cup. May not be hard for some to consider shifting to KL for instance playing pro ball on good Aussie coin in a country that realistically is not that far from home.

 

[Bandar]

I think the announced window makes the inclusion of a Japanese team more likely now there is no clash with their top league.

I'm thinking
Western Force
Japan
Singapore
Hong Kong
Malaysia
China/Korea

I still believe both Sri Lanka and Fiji are in the wrong time zones otherwise they would be included also.

 

[wamberal]

I doubt that there would be teams from both China and Hong Kong.


Hong Kong is a territory of China. If there is any intention to try to promote the game in the PRC, then in my opinion there should be one team, called China. It could play out of Hong Kong Stadium, of course.

 

[kiap]

This competition has a major issue that I can see at this stage.

The ARU will enforce their eligibility rules for the IPRC, meaning only Force players are eligible for the Wallabies. Which is fine, but looking at the quality of the other teams it could end up a horribly one-sided competition

No, that's only an issue for Australia.

Where's the requirement that marquee players or mid-level pro players have to be Aussies?

They can pull in players individually, where unsigned, be they from NZ/PI/Oz/wherever. Players are queuing up year after year to get their hands on pro rugby contracts.

There are plenty of better-than-NRC players getting well under AUD 40k a season in provincial NZ rugby, let alone Australia. Some semi pros are playing for petrol money.

Not that I'm suggesting it should happen, but player agents wouldn't even need to travel to Fiji to … ahem, … pick the eyes out of the future Drua. Okay, I'll get my coat.

It is actually a good thing for our existing comps if the IPR recruiting is spread around the region.

 

[Braveheart81]

There are plenty of better-than-NRC players getting well under AUD 40k a season in provincial NZ rugby, let alone Australia. Some semi pros are playing for petrol money.

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The NZ Mitre 10 Cup players who can't land a Super Rugby contract would be good options I'd have thought. There'd surely be plenty of guys who'd be willing to give up their day job to spend a few months overseas earning more money.

 

[ForceFan]

Clearly many people are missing the points presented by the IPRC to date.

Andrew Forrest's motivation for moving on with the IPRC was the axing of the Western Force by the EARU.
His desire is to re-establish and maintain a professional rugby team in Perth to ensure a Perth-based pathway for the development of rugby players IN Western Australia.

The Perth based professional team will be well ABOVE NRC level.
ALL of the discussions with the IRB and EARU has been to recognise the competition as a Tier 2 competition. The NRC is a Tier 3 competition.

The IPRC has stated that the kick-off competition will have 6 Teams (Perth Force + 5 others from the region).
Perth Force will be built up the same way as the Western Force was developed as a professional team. It won't be the old WF team as that's been handed on a platter to the Rebels.
The other teams will be based in the 5 countries drawing upon the local talent but supplementing these teams with a number (nobody has said how many so far) of high level and developing International players.

Matt Hodgson has advised that he's been contacted by >150 Australian and Global players who are extremely keen to be involved in this new development. It includes many big-name players plus Australian-based players. It also includes many Australians currently playing OS who would rather be closer to home.

There have been no statements regarding salary caps or levels of payments other than comments from Forrest that payments will be competitive with those being paid elsewhere.

Forrest does not intend to fund ALL teams - just the Perth team and the organisation. It appears that the member unions/countries will fund their own teams and contribute to the organisation. The IPRC will be professionally managed - unlike SANZAAR and the EARU.

The current IPRC touring party is engaging with all possible Unions to assess their current capability and to work closely with the IRB, Asia Rugby et al to establish specific needs for support and development programs and determine the timetable for entry into the IPRC.

The plan is to quickly grow beyond the initial 6 teams in 2019.
IMO the delay until 2019 is a good thing as it helps to showcase rugby in the region leading up to the RWC 2019 Japan.

The IPRC team presented to the NZRU immediately after the BaaBaas game.
I can't imagine that this means a NZ team in the initial 6 but who knows what develops beyond 2020 when Super Rugby has moved on.

Don't just believe what the East Coast press has to say - as usual they are pushing particular local agendas - in the same way as they're has been little coverage of the current Senate Inquiry into the Future of Rugby Union in Australia.

The IPRC is an exciting development for WA Rugby and for the development of Rugby in our region. It presents another opportunity for development of current and future Australian Rugby players.

 

[Micheal]

Thinking about it further, when they suggest they'll be looking to attract marquee players, I think we should expect the definition of 'marquee' to be more A-League, less Super Rugby.

What's the difference?

Amanaki Mafi is, in my opinion, one of the best number eights in World Rugby. He's at the height of his career and could expect a top quality salary in any competition around the world. Plonk him in any competition anywhere and he'll do a good job.

Tim Cahill, in my uninformed opinion, was a fantastic player with a great career and some great achievements, but couldn't simply walk into any competition in the world. At 37, his abilities have waned but he the natural class is still there, he attracts fans and he lifts those around him.

Probably not the best example but I don't know any of the European marquee players the A-League has attracted.

I guess what I'm trying to say is - in two or three years time, how many places of employment will be willing to pay a 36 year old Schalk Burger, a 39 year old George Smith or a 36 year old Stephen Moore a >$200k salary?

How many transferable skills have they really learnt throughout their rugby career?

For players like Smith, it could be an excellent place for them to begin their coaching career as well in a Captain-Coach capacity.

I think these are the stars Twiggy will be going for, not the 27 year olds who are in the prime of their career and must be paid as such.

 

[Tomikin]

If you were prioritising the guys to bring back based on their value as potential Wallabies I would order them roughly:

To'omua
Jones
White
Gill
Skelton
Pyle
O'Connor

I can't think of any others that would really be in the picture.

Tomane.. Smoking Joe was amazing the year he left

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[Braveheart81]

Tomane.. Smoking Joe was amazing the year he left

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I forgot Tomane. I should have included him.

 

[Tomikin]

I forgot Tomane. I should have included him.

I, still can't believe we let him go but 2016 was, his, best, year and he'd already signed overseas..

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[Braveheart81]

I, still can't believe we let him go but 2016 was, his, best, year and he'd already signed overseas..

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His problem was he signed to go overseas before he produced his best season of rugby by a long way. If he'd held off I think he'd have definitely been a first choice winger. He's probably less valuable now given the emergence of Koroibete etc. He'd still be great to have back in Australia.

 

[kiap]

In the same vein, the 2019 Sri Lankan franchise would probably contain, at the very most, 5 of the best Sri Lankan players going around.

I reckon they might have quite a few more local players in their franchise but, yeah, in terms of match-day first team you may be right.

It's not only men's 15s being played each round, though. With the sevens teams (men's and women's) I think the proportion of local players in the respective squads would be high.

Home town crowds need their share of home town players. And, over time, this may even come include the odd poach, as I'm sure many fans hereabouts would know.

 

[Tomikin]

His problem was he signed to go overseas before he produced his best season of rugby by a long way. If he'd held off I think he'd have definitely been a first choice winger. He's probably less valuable now given the emergence of Koroibete etc. He'd still be great to have back in Australia.

Yep the form he showed 2016 was stunning.. From what I've seen his been playing a lot of 13 in France as well. Koroibete doing well and deserves his spot but if in form he'd be great bench cover for 13,14 and possible starter. He has a fair bit of size on the others Speight/Korobete..

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[ForceFan]

What the IPRC announcement from Japan actually said:

https://www.rugbywa.asn.au/news/ind...rogress-with-rugby-australia-and-world-rugby/

 

[Mr Pilfer]

I wouldn't be surprised if NZ weren't keen to try and get a team in there. Maybe like a heartland team or something like that, the next best 30 players from the NPC who didn't get a super rugby contract.

 

[SouthernX]

I like the date window of February 2019 for 2 reasons!

1) Allows Perth Spirit to still compete in NRC.

2) If its in same window as super rugby and it's the roaring success I think it's going to be. It pretty much could allow for this competition to be merged in some way into the Super rugby competition as a new conference of some sort (Sunwolves to merge with their IPR Japanese counterparts in new IPR conference/Force back to Australia conference.

I know some of you are going to pull your hair out and say it's not going to happen but don't be surprised in 2025 if the IPR and Super Rugby competition merge.