Where to for Super Rugby?

[lou75]

Although a good article and well-researched, the essential truth of it has been pointed out many times here by a number of us, and long before this type of analysis has caught on as important. (For a long time the ARU forelock tuggers posting here flatly refused to see it all for what it was and excused the ARU all manner of obvious delinquencies in the way it conducted its 'expansion strategy' in VIC.)

Namely, and I say this with no discourtesy to Rebels fans, the Rebels as an ARU expansion strategy and business and code investment has been an abject financial and commercial disaster of large proportion. More or less, the ARU has tried to cover up or deflect away this truth.

I do not blame the Rebels as such for this in the major case.

The ARU consistently picked numerous inadequate Rebels CEO's, poor local boards, and equally poor HCs and assistant HCs.

Then they compounded these serious errors with the type of mistake the Reds have been making for a number of seasons now: the thought that recruiting expensive 'prestige and elite' players - irrespective of local coaching quality - would do the trick and build playing success and a viable Super franchise out of Melbourne.

The ARU entered the VIC market with no serious, well-planned strategy to attain local rugby excellence. Instead it did what it typically always does - bumble onwards with insider mates, core policies lacking foresight, adequate research and any bias to execution planning and execution excellence.

And also in response to “On the trail of the SuperRugby heist” I have to say that if you are going to look at one side of the ledger you should really look at the other side as well. ARU has pumped some start up money into the Rebels but the ARU has benefited from Victorian Government policies to the tune of one hundred million dollars in the past ten or eleven years:
1. 1996 the taxpayers of Victoria bailed out the ARU when the State government of Victoria struck a five year deal with the ARU to bring two Bledisloe games, a Mandela cup game and a British lions game to Victoria bringing patrons through the turnstiles like no other state could.
2. 1997-2016 we had three similar deals whereby the Victorian Major events paid well in excess of twenty million dollars to attract four Bledisloe cups, two British lions, numerous world cup games and a host of other test matches to Melbourne
3. That’s about one hundred million dollars if you calculate an average ticket price of one hundred dollars in to the coffers o the ARU.

So to say the Melbourne Rebels has cost the ARU about $20 million over and above player costs is a misrepresentation of the true picture and should be balanced with the $100 million the ARU has earned as a direct result of Victorian government investment in that same Rugby code in Victoria. IE: NO RUGBY IN VICTORIA = NO $100 MILLION IN TURNSTILE REVENUES FOR THE PAST 10 YEARS.

 

[Gnostic]

With regard to the current stake holders needing to release their strangle hold on the game at the various levels. It is something I totally agree with and there are only two ways out I see
1) the Nuclear MAD strategy - nobody flinches and the whole lot go down the drain. RH believes that WR (World Rugby) will step in and re-structure the game. I don't know. Global 7s is gaining more traction and one less borderline Tier 1 nation and as long as the 7s team still does the tour and plays the Olympics I don't know they'd care too much. Indeed with the numbers on the 7s circuit I doubt they'd be missed if there was no funding. As for the test side, NZ need a better training run than they have been getting, they risk having the quality of their performances declining by training against such substandard quality. In such an event I expect the only meaningful rugby will be our local teams and possibly surviving capital city sides forming the Shute and Subbies etc. (which honestly is actually becoming an attractive outcome)
2) in a moment of clarity to avoid the MAD outcome the various "Unions" all agree to dissolve and allow the formation a new governing "Commission Style" body to oversee all Rugby in the country. A lovely dream, about as likely as me winning lotto, which considering I've bought maybe 1 ticket in 10 years is looking pretty shaky


Club Rugby here we come.

 

[cyclopath]

And also in response to “On the trail of the SuperRugby heist” I have to say that if you are going to look at one side of the ledger you should really look at the other side as well. ARU has pumped some start up money into the Rebels but the ARU has benefited from Victorian Government policies to the tune of one hundred million dollars in the past ten or eleven years:
1. 1996 the taxpayers of Victoria bailed out the ARU when the State government of Victoria struck a five year deal with the ARU to bring two Bledisloe games, a Mandela cup game and a British lions game to Victoria bringing patrons through the turnstiles like no other state could.
2. 1997-2016 we had three similar deals whereby the Victorian Major events paid well in excess of twenty million dollars to attract four Bledisloe cups, two British lions, numerous world cup games and a host of other test matches to Melbourne
3. That’s about one hundred million dollars if you calculate an average ticket price of one hundred dollars in to the coffers o the ARU.

So to say the Melbourne Rebels has cost the ARU about $20 million over and above player costs is a misrepresentation of the true picture and should be balanced with the $100 million the ARU has earned as a direct result of Victorian government investment in that same Rugby code in Victoria. IE: NO RUGBY IN VICTORIA = NO $100 MILLION IN TURNSTILE REVENUES FOR THE PAST 10 YEARS.

Wouldn't those matches have been played elsewhere, hence "turnstile revenues"? I mean back then, Bledisloes usually got full houses at Homebush, so 80K +, not far off MCG. Nowadays, neither place would pack them I agree.
You say last 10-11 years then talk about 1996-2001.
Sure the Victorian Govt threw some money in but it wasn't "that money or nothing".
Painting with very broad sweeps.

 

[lou75]

Wouldn't those matches have been played elsewhere, hence "turnstile revenues"? I mean back then, Bledisloes usually got full houses at Homebush, so 80K +, not far off MCG. Nowadays, neither place would pack them I agree.
You say last 10-11 years then talk about 1996-2001.
Sure the Victorian Govt threw some money in but it wasn't "that money or nothing".
Painting with very broad sweeps.

sure but the NSW government didn't do it the Victorian government did it, and lets be honest Homebush was and is shithouse compared to the MCG and wasn't built until 2000 for the Olympics

 

[Gnostic]

Honestly Lou75 the MCG is just as poor for Rugby as Homebush, just easier to get to, though for me coming from Country NSW Homebush is easier than the SFS for me.

 

[cyclopath]

sure but the NSW government didn't do it the Victorian government did it, and lets be honest Homebush was and is shithouse compared to the MCG and wasn't built until 2000 for the Olympics

Well, that covers all my points.

 

[lou75]

Honestly Lou75 the MCG is just as poor for Rugby as Homebush, just easier to get to, though for me coming from Country NSW Homebush is easier than the SFS for me.

Sure, but my point was to look at both sides of the ledger: what the aru spent and what it earnt throughout turnstile revenues and the ARU has benefited five fold for its investment in Victorian Rugby

 

[andrewM]

I disagree Lou, attracting the Bledisloe and other high profile games to Victoria, as well as the Formula 1 etc was all part of the Vic government's plan to reinvent Victoria due to the reduction of industrial activity in the state caused by the offshoring of many manufacturing jobs to China.

To say it was doing the ARU a favour is pulling a long bow

http://www.vtic.com.au/victoria-the-events-capital-of-australia/

 

[The Honey Badger]

Honestly Lou75 the MCG is just as poor for Rugby as Homebush, just easier to get to, though for me coming from Country NSW Homebush is easier than the SFS for me.

What, you don't get stuck on the M4 when there is an event at Homebush?

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[half]

Richard Hinds had the courage to call out the admin see previous page.

smh just released Peter Fitz's latest. The headline is great and its well written but hhhmmm your call.

He acknowledges the problems, but in many ways supports rugby's admin.

We need among other things a hard hitting media.

You can make your own call.

Australian rugby is paying the price for ignoring its grassroots


http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-ignoring-its-grassroots-20170619-gwu0st.html

 

[lou75]

The ARU did earn the turnstile revenues though, so lets count them up if we are going to judge the Melbourne Rebels as a loss making venture

 

[cyclopath]

Sure, but my point was to look at both sides of the ledger: what the aru spent and what it earnt throughout turnstile revenues and the ARU has benefited five fold for its investment in Victorian Rugby

No, they haven't because they would have made a large chunk of that money anyway. You're (financially) assuming none of those matches would have taken place at all if Vic Govt did not chase them. And Lions . Bledisloe and, at that time, SA games drew well and would have made good receipts elsewhere.
Yes, they may have made some money, but it was not a 500% return.

 

[Gnostic]

Sure, but my point was to look at both sides of the ledger: what the aru spent and what it earnt throughout turnstile revenues and the ARU has benefited five fold for its investment in Victorian Rugby

As Cyclo has said regardless of what the Vic Gov may have tipped in (and I'm always suspicious of Government "handouts", a very large of that cash would have accrued anyway.

No I'm am much more concerned that when you add up the pretty vast sum of money that Rugby has generated since 2002 in this country and have a look at what material value there is from that you have to be pretty shocked. Some selected people have got very fat from the game in Australia and have milked the cow dry, cooked her up along with the Goose and the golden eggs. The amount of money spent on pretty much nothing, with failing grass roots infrastructure and essentailly zero (additional) FTA exposure is just obscene.

 

[Gnostic]

What, you don't get stuck on the M4 when there is an event at Homebush?



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No WTF would I be doing on the M4 coming in from the north? Straight down from top Ryde or even along Silverwater Rd - Parramatta Rd, its easier than getting to the SFS.

 

[Slim 293]

Wouldn't those matches have been played elsewhere, hence "turnstile revenues"? I mean back then, Bledisloes usually got full houses at Homebush, so 80K +, not far off MCG. Nowadays, neither place would pack them I agree.
You say last 10-11 years then talk about 1996-2001.
Sure the Victorian Govt threw some money in but it wasn't "that money or nothing".
Painting with very broad sweeps.

Yes indeed..........

If you take a look at, let's say............

The top 20 highest attended rugby union test matches:

- The top 2 were held in Sydney in 2000 and 1999
- 11 of those matches were held in Australia
- 10 of those matches were in Sydney between 1999 and 2013 (all of them Bledisloe and Lions tests except one England v France RWC match in '03)
- The other one was the Bledisloe Cup in Melbourne back in 1997

 

[stoff]

I disagree Lou, attracting the Bledisloe and other high profile games to Victoria, as well as the Formula 1 etc was all part of the Vic government's plan to reinvent Victoria due to the reduction of industrial activity in the state caused by the offshoring of many manufacturing jobs to China.

To say it was doing the ARU a favour is pulling a long bow

http://www.vtic.com.au/victoria-the-events-capital-of-australia/

That policy also drove up the price for all major events and removed what had been a fairly complacent attitude around them. So yes, without Victoria they would not have made nearly as much money, not just on events hear, but around the nation. What we are actually currently seeing is the effect of Victoria being near enough to a break even position for the ARU instead of a cash cow. Remember that super rugby runs at a loss across the board so all franchises have been leaching off the ARU for years. The ARU enabled fat across the other franchises over the past decade or so is one of the key reasons the ARU is where it is now. Maybe it's time to flog off the second Sydney or Brisbane test to Adelaide to try and raise some more cash.


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[lou75]

That policy also drove up the price for all major events and removed what had been a fairly complacent attitude around them. So yes, without Victoria they would not have made nearly as much money, not just on events hear, but around the nation. What we are actually currently seeing is the effect of Victoria being near enough to a break even position for the ARU instead of a cash cow. Remember that super rugby runs at a loss across the board so all franchises have been leaching off the ARU for years. The ARU enabled fat across the other franchises over the past decade or so is one of the key reasons the ARU is where it is now. Maybe it's time to flog off the second Sydney or Brisbane test to Adelaide to try and raise some more cash.


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I don't think Adelaide would pull the numbers because the potential customer base is very parochial and would probably not be sure if it was a league or union game they were going to or watching - if the Crows weren't playing that night that is

 

[KOB1987]

No WTF would I be doing on the M4 coming in from the north? Straight down from top Ryde or even along Silverwater Rd - Parramatta Rd, its easier than getting to the SFS.

And for me coming from the west, provided I'm not fussed about where I'm staying I'll park at Lidcombe and catch the train the one stop from there. In any case it's got nothing to do with the traffic on the M4 and everything to do with the shitfight that is trying to get out of the carpark at the same time as 80,000 other people.

 

[Boomer]

Much of the support for the Rebels has argued previously that the team is Melbourne first - the concerns of the wider rugby world in Victoria and Australia are very much a secondary concern.

Now the arguement runs that Melbourne has saved Australian Rugby's skin because of sheer weight of numbers and financial clout.

The two would seem to be mutually exclusive.

 

[stoff]

I don't think Adelaide would pull the numbers because the potential customer base is very parochial and would probably not be sure if it was a league or union game they were going to or watching - if the Crows weren't playing that night that is

That part of my comment was a bit tongue in cheek. My real point is that the game has been relying on Victorian cash to prop it up for a long time (whatever the extra over is on other states for test matches, the ticket sales that would have been made to Victorians had the games been played elsewhere, around 15-20% of the TV rights for the past 20 years based ratings - realistically and probably conservatively at least $5m/ year for the past 20 years). We are nett contributor overall. Given the game is all but broke that means that others are not.


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