Where to for Super Rugby?

[half]

The A-League example finally being analysed and recognised by some on the forum while others still express doubt about the model. Maybe its worth returning as the penny is starting to drop at last.

Lets be very clear, the A-League is about to get a major bump. The planning and strategic positioning of soccer by FFA from a management stance is IMO beyond clever. We have a lot to learn.

Omar said “ in recent months I've been thinking maybe that's not so bad”” flat eric said “That's because teams have done a great job of engaging with fans who just want to turn up and support a local product “” Captain crow eater said “’ the A League, feeder comp or not, they have tribalism””

Would you believe me if I told you soccer’s NPL equivalent to our SS level was rating better than some Super Rugby matches. Don’t believe me look at this as a random sample from this week. Remember they have 100 teams in this and could soon be broadcasting 50 matches a weekend over a full season, its called growing the base.

Bentleigh Greens v South Melbourne = 10,936 (FB) Facebook
Rochedale Rovers v Brisbane Strikers = 8,620 (FB)
Adamstown v Broadmeadow = 5,810 (FB)
South Melbourne v Box Hill United = 21,552 (FB)
Altona Magic v Yarraville Glory = 10,040 (FB)
APIA v Sydney Olympic = 10,761 (FB)
Brisbane Knights v Peninsula Power = 9,836 (FB)
Thunder v Gold Coast City = 14,431 (FB

The above is an examples of how successful you can be if the governing body engages its community and takes its time. The NPL and the FFA Cup took almost four years of negotiation but for the love of Mary they are reaping the rewards of good planning and extensive consultation.

Today FFA senior management and board are under intense pressure from stakeholders to share their power. The next six months will be messy, ugly and bitter and what will emerge is a stronger, united code. They all agree now on the outcomes desired they are arguing on the best ways to get there and who should lead, and how to capitalise it better.

Imagine if we could agree on the goals and objectives.

Once soccer could not get in the door of the local council, today they have 17 bids to join the A-League most have local government backing some have local and state government backing.

So how about this from the South Australian government. Some bits taken from the article. http://www.sportal.co.in/football/soccer-swap-series-set-as-australia-china-co-production-variety

Soccer Swap' Series set as Australia-China Co-Production

Australia’s 57 Films and China’s Qingdao TV are to co-produce TV series “Soccer Swap.” The show, to shoot next year, will follow the selection, preparation and games as two youth teams – one from Adelaide and the other from Qingdao.

The agreement was announced by South Australia’s Minister for Investment and Trade, Martin Hamilton-Smith. Also on board are the South Australia Film Corporation and leading soccer team, Adelaide United Football Club.

“’Soccer Swap’ like ‘Chef Exchange’ will be an amazing record of the relationship and fascinating cultural connections between South Australia and Shandong – all showcased to China and the world, said South Australian Film Corporation CEO Annabelle Sheehan.””

I could go on a client of mine who owns a small media company has sent me why he believes soccer is about to get a major bump within two years. I can share if posters want to have a look see, but it would make this post way to big.

Since the late 90’s I have argued for a National Domestic Competition. The A-League model while about to undergo both new governance procedures and new ways of bringing in capital clearly demonstrates in Australia its domestic competitions that work long term.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The A-League example finally being analysed and recognised by some on the forum while others still express doubt about the model. Maybe its worth returning as the penny is starting to drop at last.

[]

The above is an examples of how successful you can be if the governing body engages its community and takes its time. The NPL and the FFA Cup took almost four years of negotiation but for the love of Mary they are reaping the rewards of good planning and extensive consultation.

Today FFA senior management and board are under intense pressure from stakeholders to share their power. The next six months will be messy, ugly and bitter and what will emerge is a stronger, united code. They all agree now on the outcomes desired they are arguing on the best ways to get there and who should lead, and how to capitalise it better.

Imagine if we could agree on the goals and objectives.

Once soccer could not get in the door of the local council, today they have 17 bids to join the A-League most have local government backing some have local and state government backing.

So how about this from the South Australian government. Some bits taken from the article. http://www.sportal.co.in/football/soccer-swap-series-set-as-australia-china-co-production-variety



I could go on a client of mine who owns a small media company has sent me why he believes soccer is about to get a major bump within two years. I can share if posters want to have a look see, but it would make this post way to big.

Since the late 90’s I have argued for a National Domestic Competition. The A-League model while about to undergo both new governance procedures and new ways of bringing in capital clearly demonstrates in Australia its domestic competitions that work long term.

Very interesting.
Did FFA/A league go to fox with a plan or vice versa?
The A league is proof to me that Aussies are not as fussy about their local sport being world class as I thought.

 

[James Pettifer]

Very interesting.
Did FFA/A league go to fox with a plan or vice versa?
The A league is proof to me that Aussies are not as fussy about their local sport being world class as I thought.

One of the big problems with Super Rugby is that Australian teams are losing. We don't lose in the AFL, NRL or A-League because we don't play anyone else (apart from the 1 NZ team). It is easier to play more attractive looking sport if you aren't getting hammered every other weekend.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

One of the big problems with Super Rugby is that Australian teams are losing. We don't lose in the AFL, NRL or A-League because we don't play anyone else (apart from the 1 NZ team). It is easier to play more attractive looking sport if you aren't getting hammered every other weekend.

Tribalism must work for the FFA cos it ain't the footy

 

[RedsHappy]

One of the big problems with Super Rugby is that Australian teams are losing. We don't lose in the AFL, NRL or A-League because we don't play anyone else (apart from the 1 NZ team). It is easier to play more attractive looking sport if you aren't getting hammered every other weekend.

Very telling point and made far more so by the quite humiliating gap v Aus Super teams that's opened up as NZ rugby has just improved and improved further the skills, fitness and innovation in unstructured play of its Super teams, just as we have slowly degraded in similar dimensions.

Highly alienating and demoralising for the casual rugby fan, the type that's left us on droves.

 

[RedsHappy]

Tribalism must work for the FFA cos it ain't the footy

In sport, in part, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, once the beholder 'belongs'.

 

[wamberal]

You've got a short memory, half, or you are too young to remember that domestic soccer was enormously popular here for many of the post-war years.


There has always been an underlying swell of support for and participation in soccer. It is a relatively easy game to organise and play at the social level, and all age groups.


Soccer's biggest enemy was itself, the huge and divisive ethnic rivalries, as more and more immigration happened from countries that embedded those rivalries, from the sixties onwards.


Properly managed (although never eradicated), those rivalries are an important part of the tribalism that fuels the game today.


Tribalism cannot be manufactured quickly, it takes decades. Centuries in soccer's case.

 

[Rebels3]

One of the big problems with Super Rugby is that Australian teams are losing. We don't lose in the AFL, NRL or A-League because we don't play anyone else (apart from the 1 NZ team). It is easier to play more attractive looking sport if you aren't getting hammered every other weekend.

Hence why i believe the NRC needs to be turned into the 5 Aus super teams + Fiji for a 10week competition. It will bring some success to someone to feed off.

 

[Twoilms]

You've got a short memory, half, or you are too young to remember that domestic soccer was enormously popular here for many of the post-war years.


There has always been an underlying swell of support for and participation in soccer. It is a relatively easy game to organise and play at the social level, and all age groups.


Soccer's biggest enemy was itself, the huge and divisive ethnic rivalries, as more and more immigration happened from countries that embedded those rivalries, from the sixties onwards.


Properly managed (although never eradicated), those rivalries are an important part of the tribalism that fuels the game today.


Tribalism cannot be manufactured quickly, it takes decades. Centuries in soccer's case.

A majority of the half decent footballers we produced came from these ethnic groups. Viduka, Bosnic etc are all of slavic descent. Since the introduction of the A-league and a step away from ethnically driven teams, we've actually stopped producing any good players.

Our best current player, i'd guess, is Aaron Mooy who is playing in the English second division on loan from Manchester City, where he will never get a game. A farcry from the glory days of Viduka, Cahill, Kewell etc banging in goals for fun in the premiership.

Not really sure what my point is though. Maybe, A-league model is great if you don't care about being internationally competitive.

 

[John S]

John, based on the previous 3 or 4 years of the NRC, and the deal to get 7two to cover the SS, which bloody FTA would be willing to touch the broadcasting of the NRC with a 40 ft pole, let alone put substantial amounts of money into the ARU's coffers for the privilege? I am so sick of posters here suggesting that FTA is the panacea for the ARU's ills when they've not stumped up any support at all for games below the Wallabies' matches almost in living memory.

***Edited to take my head out my arse now I've had a think***

This is unrelated - should go on a different thread possibly.

I never said it was a panacea, and realise that there is more to putting the NRC onto FTA (even one game a week) but it would go some way to at least keeping some of us happy (ok keep me happy, I'm probably the only one who thinks like this)

But I'll duck back into my hole, and lurk like usual.

 

[wamberal]

I still think that some sort of wider competition between some of our traditional clubs is likely to get a bigger audience than the NRC.


Somehow or other, the NRC needs to be spiced up. Not sure how. But who on earth invests any emotion in the results of a game between most of these teams.


At least with traditional clubs there is a reason for most of us to hate most of them. Slight exaggeration, but not much.

 

[half]

Very interesting.
Did FFA/A league go to fox with a plan or vice versa?
The A league is proof to me that Aussies are not as fussy about their local sport being world class as I thought.

Neither,

FFA created what they called there National Premier League to sit below the A-League much like our NRC sits under Super Rugby.

They then developed some rules to enter, with three major matters teams needed to met. These in brief, they had to run academies from U 9 thu to U 16 using FFA national training methods, appoint a director of coaching who holds coaching certificates of a high level, finally have a ground to play at.

They then put there state associations in charge of the administration of it and trusted there state associations to select the right sides.

At the same time and to encourage teams to join they developed the FFA Cup and invited all clubs in Australia into it. But said that the NPL sides can come in latter and don't have to go via the early rounds.

Timing of the FFA Cup and cost of setting up he NPL was endless discussed as I said almost 4 years.

Finally everyone comprised a little and soccers National Premier League was established. It has 100 clubs in two division with promotion and regulation between the two divisions.

Its younger than the NRC by about a year, I think or about the same age.

Last years FFA Cup had 5 games broadcast by Fox similar to A-League broadcast of the final 32 matches also broadcast on Fox but only five is where they sent a commentary team etc.

Those five games and remember the NRC grand final rated 39K on Fox, the FFA cup rated 69K, 58K, 90k, 68K, with the final I think 170K.

The essence is FFA have given their state associations free rein and control over the NPL they don't have to fund, administrator etc. With freedom the NPL teams and their state associations are starting broadcasting their matches.

Now imagine 100 teams Australia, thats 50 games a weekend, for a season what 20 to 25 weeks. Say they manage to lift their views to somewhere near 20 K each that my friend has created a 1 million fan base for soccer and connects directly to local communities and their player base.

Its what happens when you have a bottom up approach, create a conceptual framework to work in and simply say go for it.

FFA do little for this competition except step aside and allow it to grow.

 

[KevinO]

Agreed, people like to see brands they know. You just don't throw away all that history.

In fact I am still a proponent that our nrc should be the 5 franchises + Fiji for a 10week competition (5home 5away). No new entities, extra content so franchises can engage with fans and opportunity for franchises to take games to different areas. Eg. Reds v tahs on the Gold Coast, or tahs v Fiji in western Sydney.

Not enough home games to make it work, 8 has to be a minimum for home games. Anything less it not really financially viable.

 

[MarkJ]

Would you believe me if I told you soccer’s NPL equivalent to our SS level was rating better than some Super Rugby matches. Don’t believe me look at this as a random sample from this week. Remember they have 100 teams in this and could soon be broadcasting 50 matches a weekend over a full season, its called growing the base.

Bentleigh Greens v South Melbourne = 10,936 (FB) Facebook
Rochedale Rovers v Brisbane Strikers = 8,620 (FB)
Adamstown v Broadmeadow = 5,810 (FB)
South Melbourne v Box Hill United = 21,552 (FB)
Altona Magic v Yarraville Glory = 10,040 (FB)
APIA v Sydney Olympic = 10,761 (FB)
Brisbane Knights v Peninsula Power = 9,836 (FB)
Thunder v Gold Coast City = 14,431 (FB

I'd be taking Facebook video viewing figures with a big grain of salt. I suspect you'd find that probably at least half those views would be of sub 10 second duration, i.e. people who were just a bit slow scrolling past the video in their news feed and it started auto-playing.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'd be taking Facebook video viewing figures with a big grain of salt. I suspect you'd find that probably at least half those views would be of sub 10 second duration, i.e. people who were just a bit slow scrolling past the video in their news feed and it started auto-playing.

Agreed.

For example, the Oceania U20 Rugby Championship video on Facebook between Australia and Fiji shows 86k views.

The number of viewers at any one time was generally about 1,000.

 

[joeyjohnz]

Hence why i believe the NRC needs to be turned into the 5 Aus super teams + Fiji for a 10week competition. It will bring some success to someone to feed off.

I'd agree with it if it were the deciding factor on which Aussie team didn't make Super Rugby next year, but that can't be the case due to legal restraints.

In that light, I'd prefer the ARU aimed a little bigger, and took a leaf from the Big Bash's book and introduced 2 teams in your biggest markets (Qld & NSW). A Western Sydney team & a South Qld team would give you 4 games a week - play everyone once and your derby partner twice for an 8 round regular season, followed by semi's & final.

From next year, once Super Rugby finishes in early July & Inbound tours are during July the NRC can increase to a double-round robin tournament starting the week after Super Rugby during the NH tours. It runs during the Rugby Championship with the final in the last week of October before the Wallabies tour Europe. It's literally a perfect 16 week window.

As someone said earlier, the Waratahs can't shake their elitist tag - a cross town rival will help them immensely. A 2nd "Southside" Qld team that aims to represent the extraordinarily large pacific expat population spanning from Gold Coast-Logan-Sunnybank-Ipswich can only help Rugby in QLD in the long run. (This also lets the Reds & Tahs continue to represent their states country population)

And for fucks sakes, we don't need to jam 7 new franchise names down the throats of potential followers. This is Rugby Union, not cricket. We don't have a following of a good 50% of the population. We need to leverage off the 5 existing brands that we've spent decades or more building which apparently has almost sent us broke.
Gimme the WS Rams, the mortal enemy of the Waratahs & a
Battle of the River; Reds vs. Southside.

Each of these teams could actually be semi-professional or above. RUPA guarantees the players a proportion of Broadcast Revenue for Super Rugby. Keep the Current Salary Cap as it is and instead of splitting the Rebels/Force share amongst the remaining four, that money ($5mil dollars) can be used to fund the salaries of the 3 non-Super Rugby teams (Western Sydney, QLD South, Rebels/Force. $5mil between 3 squads of 30 players is 55k each!)

 

[dru]

Not enough home games to make it work, 8 has to be a minimum for home games. Anything less it not really financially viable.

That would be Super Rugby then.

 

[John S]

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/05/11/00/37/cheika-cronk

All I have to say is hell no. Last thing we need is to parachute some league retiree in to any of our teams. Throw the pathway out the window boys, we'll nick these guys.

 

[wamberal]

Cronk would pay for himself in added bums on seats. And he does have a rugby background, IIRC, played for Australian Schools?


Plus he comes across as very well grounded, and by the way he is stll a long way from being a retiree.

 

[John S]

Maybe, but how long has it been since he's actually played the 15 man game? Ok, so not a retiree just yet, but at 33 how long does he have left in him? Enough time to get across all the nuances (again) for whichever position?

I'll give you he's pretty grounded, and one of the better league players out there.

Whatever the answer, this would just be a temporary fix, doesn't solve anything.